• bus_factor@lemmy.world
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    5 months ago

    As a European from elsewhere in Europe, I’m never going back to Milan. Maybe it’s fine if you’re into fashion, but if you’re not there’s not much to look at except a cathedral which resembles every other cathedral, and it’s impossible to get a photo of it without also having a friendship bracelet scammer in the frame, actively harassing you.

    All tourist locations in Italy and France have people trying to scam you (and some non-scammers just trying to sell you cheap toys), but Milan is the only place I’ve been to where they’re straight up harassing you non-stop. Go to Pisa instead, it’s super relaxing there and you can marvel at their past mistakes in structural engineering. A far better deal.

        • HobbitFoot @thelemmy.club
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          5 months ago

          Venice kind of has a Disneyland vibe.

          There aren’t any scammers, the place is filled with history, and is relatively well kept and run. The flip side to it is that feels like a theme park at times.

          It also has Disneyland prices.

        • Shard@lemmy.world
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          5 months ago

          I was in Venice pre-covid. I spent a day walking around and soaking in the sights and sounds. Sat by myself for an hour listening to some guy play the chello. It was beautiful. Never got harassed by street peddlers or scammers unlike in Milan. The architecture was beautiful like nothing else. Its a city trapped in the Renaissance era.

        • AchtungDrempels@lemmy.world
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          5 months ago

          Terrible, not a real city, like the other person said, feels more like a theme park for tourists. Already did 20 years ago, last time i’ve been, never going back.

      • bus_factor@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        We were in the mood for a chill day, so it was nice to just chill in a park and walk through some random old neighborhoods until we stumbled across a restaurant. There’s nothing chill about Milan, though, at least not where a clueless tourist would find it.

    • EllE@lemmy.world
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      5 months ago

      Funny you should say that; I went to Florence some years back and we took a day trip to Pisa and had to deal with the worst, most aggressive scammers I’ve ever experienced.

      • bus_factor@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        We may have just gotten lucky. I also had a great time in Venice once by wandering off randomly and ending up somewhere I can only assume tourists don’t normally go. We bought some fruit off a boat which was both delicious and very affordable, so I assume the target demographic was not tourists. I’m pretty sure that’s not the universal experience of Venice either.

    • PonyOfWar@pawb.social
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      5 months ago

      I really enjoyed visiting Cimiteiro Monumentale in Milan. A historic cemetery with lots of lavishishly designed huge tombs. Very few tourists there and no scammers whatsoever.

  • SuddenDownpour@sh.itjust.works
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    5 months ago

    Canary Islands. Great place, but the mass tourism is actually killing them, provoking skyrocketing rent and shortages of power and water.

    • Taalen@lemmy.world
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      5 months ago

      Indeed. My girlfriend lives there, last time I was over we went to the big demonstration against mass tourism. I felt a bit sick at the airport listening to all the north European pensioners talking about how they rent a place year round for 800€/month just to spend the odd week now and then there. While many locals working in tourism make minimum wage, around 1300€/month I believe.

      • Khrux@ttrpg.network
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        5 months ago

        Hey that’s exactly what my rent / wage split was in the UK last year. The only reason anything got better is that minimum wage went up while my rent hasn’t yet.

  • xmunk@sh.itjust.works
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    5 months ago

    Switzerland. If you’ve got buckets of money it’s fine but donair can easily run you 18 francs and a real meal will cost you 100+. I’ve visited twice and both times the extreme costs involved have hamstrung my ability to actually enjoy things. The trains and geography are amazing - but the streets full of jewelers and high fashion specifically targeting millionaires or up are an awful example of late stage capitalism.

    • Raylon@lemmy.world
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      5 months ago

      Sorry but you’re exaggerating, a full meal including drinks in a mid-level establishment will be at max. 50 chf and that’s being generous. And with cheaper places you can even stay below 20 chf.

      Yes, Switzerland is expensive but there’s no need to lie about it. Also the stuff about millionaires and all maybe fits a couple streets in Switzerland that are very touristy but there are plenty of places not at all like this.

      • xmunk@sh.itjust.works
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        5 months ago

        A full meal including drinks will usually run 50 chf per person if you’re a couple most meals will run 100+ - it is possible to eat on a budget (we’ve usually relied on sausage stands and donair). And yea, I’m mostly talking about what you’ll find in Lucerne, Zurich, or Geneva where you’re likely to visit.

        • safesyrup@lemmy.hogru.ch
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          5 months ago

          I don‘t know where you‘re eating lol. A döner in zurich is about 14-15 francs at the moment never seen one for 18 francs and they increased prices the last two years as well.

          If you‘re having a meal and drinks for 50 francs per person you have likely been to a fancy restaurant. Don‘t get me wrong, it absolutely is possible to easily go over 50 francs, however its also is very easy to stay below that and still have a good experience.

    • dwt@feddit.de
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      5 months ago

      I’ve visited multiple times with a camper, and if you use apps like park for night to find free or cheap places to stay!then buy your own ingredients to cook, it’s actually really acceptable. And the nature is gorgeous!

      • AchtungDrempels@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        Same for me, with a bicycle and tent. Camp sites are also ok priced, at least for cyclists. Very much enjoy cycling in switzerland, i also think people are friendly. I used to have different experiences but those were just single persons / crazy people or something.

    • Blizzard@lemmy.zip
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      5 months ago

      donair can easily run you 18 francs and a real meal will cost you 100+.

      What the fuck…??? 😲

      • Borovicka@lemm.ee
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        5 months ago

        Well it’s simply not true, doeners are 10-15, and meals in sitdown restaurants are 12-25. I live in Zurich, restaurants are slightly cheaper than in the US ( plus there is no tip or extra tax, what you see on the menu is what you pay) - but there are less budget options available.

    • Decency8401@discuss.tchncs.de
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      5 months ago

      I live in switzerland and my lunch costs CHF 2.50 so I don’t know where you’ve been eating for one hundred + francs for a ‘real meal’.

    • merari42@lemmy.world
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      5 months ago

      I paid 20€ for a Pizza Margherita in Oslo once. In some very rich places you can feel like a tourist from a developing country even if you are from a less-rich high-income country yourself.

  • Yrt@feddit.de
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    5 months ago

    As others said Switzerland. It’s beautiful and all but really expensive. It really took away a big part of fun when I went there. But not only that, I thought the swiss people seemed sometimes kinda "rude"or maybe a better word for it “cold” and a little annoyed if it came to tourists. I get it, it’s a small county and a lot of people are visiting each year, but it still wasn’t fun for me to be there and I wouldn’t recommend it to anyone to go there.

    And North France near the German border like Strasbourg. The city and the region is beautiful as well, but the people are often like the cliché everybody knows and that sucks if you’re a tourist. But the south of France like Marseille and the Provence is always worth a visit. The people are chill, enjoying life in the typical mediterranean way and are often friendlier (and often speak English at least in the bigger cities/tourist areas).

    • Rolando@lemmy.world
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      5 months ago

      I thought the swiss people seemed sometimes kinda "rude"or maybe a better word for it “cold” and a little annoyed

      I have some Swiss-American relatives, and I think this is cultural. They just have a different set of indicators, they’re not going to be grinning and hugging.

      • sunbeam60@lemmy.one
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        5 months ago

        So knowing that European consider Swiss people cold, imagine how cold they are.

        They are stone cold to foreigners - so many English speaking wealthy people live there and they are not welcomed into the local communities. It can take a decade to make local Swiss friends.

      • Yrt@feddit.de
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        5 months ago

        Then you should visit south europe. Europe is divided by the alps in a lot of things, like potato or tomato as main ingredient in meals. But also in culture itself. Everything north of the alps is kinda cold and seems unhappy/angry and stressed all the time and south of it people seem chill, happy and friendly.

    • Cheesus@lemmy.ca
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      5 months ago

      As an Anglophone who lives in France, I agree. Although where I live (east / south-east) English is not very widely spoken, even in bigger cities, but the people are generally very friendly.

    • wewbull@feddit.uk
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      5 months ago

      …but it all goes wrong again at the south coast. Even the locals leave for the summer.

    • Kacarott@feddit.de
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      5 months ago

      As a counter example, I managed to make friends with a Swiss person while elsewhere in Europe, and then later in my travels got to visit them in Switzerland for a few days. My time there was truly one of the most breathtaking and memorable experiences of my trip.

      Maybe it’s expensive, maybe Europeans are “cold” personality wise, but God damn they have got some incredible scenery.

  • AchtungDrempels@lemmy.world
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    5 months ago

    Andorra. Full of motor bozos, duty free shops, terrible cities in the valleys. A tax haven joke country. Nice mountains i guess.

  • ChojinDSL@discuss.tchncs.de
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    5 months ago

    Not a place in particular, but if you’re driving, avoid any border crossings during peak holiday seasons. Specifically when you’re crossing from the EU into non-EU countries or crossing from Schengen into non-Schengen area. During peak times you might be waiting at the border for hours.

        • Fisch@discuss.tchncs.de
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          Wanted to say that too. I mean, technically the train network is pretty well connected but it’s so underfunded that trains oftentimes don’t drive at all or they’re late and then every train after that is also late. It’s mostly fine but it happens way too often. I had to stand in freezing cold for an hour or longer too many times in the last three years where I took the train daily.

          • Andromxda 🇺🇦🇵🇸🇹🇼@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            5 months ago

            I don’t know, maybe it’s just particularly bad where I live, but I regularly have to the the god damn Schienenersatzverkehr, and even this god damn fucking bus that is supposed to replace the train is always like 20 minutes late. Like how the fuck do you even mess that up DB? HOW?!

            • Fisch@discuss.tchncs.de
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              4 months ago

              Yeah, I had to take a SEV for a while too because there was construction on the train tracks and I came late every single day because apparently nobody at DB thought that 2 full trains (and with full I mean that people always had to stand because there weren’t enough seats) couldn’t just fit into one bus. That bus was always completely full (people standing in the middle up to the front door) and a lot of people still just wouldn’t fit in.

      • wewbull@feddit.uk
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        5 months ago

        Things get less well connected in the more eastern nations, especially heading down to Greece.

      • Microw@lemm.ee
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        5 months ago

        Well, there are some exceptions. This year, I’m travelling by train to all my holiday destinations, but the last connection I will fly because the trains run in such a stupidly way.

        • xmunk@sh.itjust.works
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          5 months ago

          Yea - my statement is generally accurate for Western Europe. Eastern Europe, especially the Balkans, is awful for high-speed coverage.

          • Microw@lemm.ee
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            5 months ago

            In my case actually Western Europe, but a very specific connection that would either need to go through the alps (which means slow speeds and switching trains a lot) or take a huge detour via Paris.

    • merari42@lemmy.world
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      5 months ago

      For driving tunnels in the Alps are the worst. The Gotthard tunnel or the Karawanken tunnel on the first days of the vacation period were the worst traffic I have ever seen.

  • EllE@lemmy.world
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    5 months ago

    Common tourist places during tourist season are usually the worst. I took a 10 day trip to Paris one summer and it was a mix of the most popular tourist places (Louvre, Eiffel tower, etc) and some underground shit my sister found.

    Every tourist place was jam packed with annoying tourists, costly and had tons of scammers surrounding it. Every less known place was really awesome, aside from one sketchy neighborhood we had to walk through where we were followed for a while.

    I’d also say that Northern Europe has generally been much more pleasant to travel through, for me.

        • AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world
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          5 months ago

          Paris is 80% people from the rest of the country. Which their former neighbours promply hate as soon as they move there.

          It’s traditional.

          • Jumpingspiderman@sopuli.xyz
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            5 months ago

            From what my former Parisian grad school housemate told me, I concur. He once said in reply to a friend (named Roger) asking him why people in Paris were mean to him and hate Americans, my housemate replied, “Oh Rogers, zhee French do not hate Americans, zhey hate EVERYONE, especially zhee other French”. My experience in Paris was that the Parisians were surprisingly friendly. But I speak a little French and say Bonjour and Merci when warranted.

      • Victor@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        My experiences in Rocket League can confirm. People being toxic in chat? Tell them something in chat back – get the “tg” to confirm French. Every goddamn time, always the French that are so rude.

        Why? Why are they having such a bad day every day? Play a game to have fun ffs.

      • randombullet@programming.dev
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        5 months ago

        If you want to stay in Germany and hop across the border, Strasbourg and Colmar are both nice towns. Has German influence but you get the benefits of being near the black forest for a 2 for 1 trip.

      • ooli@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        Lyon. 3rd sized city. Best food of France. 2 rivers. centre of France so close to anything. should have been the capital of France if the kid of one king didn’t die there for some reason, or whatever

        • Cheesus@lemmy.ca
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          Lyon is pretty great. Depending on the vibe you’re going for, Marseille is also pretty awesome. I’d avoid it in the middle of the summer, but shoulder season down south is amazing. The weather is great, the people are friendly (if you avoid the worst parts of town, like anywhere) and the food is a nice mix of traditional French and Mediterranean cuisine. And make sure to get a flight of Ricard.

    • sigmaklimgrindset@sopuli.xyz
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      I really liked Paris 🥲 I did go during the end of October though, so that might’ve have been a factor. People still didn’t want to talk to me in French, but they weren’t rude about it.

      My favourite place to visit in France was La Rochelle, I feel like I got most of the benefits of visiting Coastal France but without the Marseille/Toulon/Monaco crowds (yes I know, Monaco is not France).

      • Policeshootout@lemmy.ca
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        5 months ago

        I’ve been to Paris 3 times, I’m from BC in Canada. April, May and October I went. Had an amazing time every time, people, food, places. It’s one of my favorite cities.

      • The Menemen!@lemmy.world
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        I also liked Paris and I’ve been there twice in summer. People weren’t actively going out of their way to be unfriendly to us, so this was great compared to the rest of france.

        Everyone we asked for help did their best to help us, though we have 0 french knowledge. I had very different experiences elsewhere in France (we quickly learned to only speak to arab people outside Paris, if we needed help, worked fine).

        We skipped most touristy places and just had a few relaxing days there both times. So that might also be, why we had a pleasant time in Paris.

    • watersnipje
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      5 months ago

      Done. I’ve been on vacation in France many times, visited many regions and provinces. Never been to Paris.

  • RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world
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    5 months ago

    I wouldn’t say at all cost, but Montenegro isn’t fun. Russians have built massive hotel resorts on the beaches there, the locals are unhappy that they’re there so they don’t like tourists. They’ll try to fight you on the beach because you’re not local. Get hassled by the cops because you’re not local, but you’ll be able to buy your way out of your problem if you’re lucky. People don’t want to talk to you, everyone is pretty cold and borderline rude. Go to a bar for a drink and you get a glass nominally washed/rinsed in tubs of soapy water behind the bar that the previous 100 glasses went through and hasn’t been changed out. The landscape is beautiful in a hostile sort of way, but there’s just not much reason to visit. It’s not even particularly inexpensive. The hotels will try to charge you for everything, including a scuff on the wall that you didn’t do, a chip on a planter on the balcony, etc. ridiculous money grabs.

    • bloodfart@lemmy.ml
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      5 months ago

      idk about the process in montenegro, but it’s pretty normal in america for bars to use a three compartment sink with a christmas tree scrub brush stuck to the bottom of the first sink, which is filled about half full with soapy water, a rinse water mixture in the next one and a sanitizer water mixture in the last one.

      it’s a fast and safe way to do dishes by hand, especially glassware if you always inspect for chips afterward (which you should be doing anyway!).

      • RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world
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        I understand there’s a right way to do it, but allow me to assure that the two murky trays behind this bar were not acceptable by any means. I didn’t want to get too graphic, but glasses went from the customer hand, a quick slosh and a rub in liquids that would make any civilized health department shriek, wiped “dry” with a filthy rag that had just wiped the bar top, filled with the next drink and handed to the next customer.

        This is the kind of stuff where you see it in a movie like so: the scoundrel hero walks into a dive bar in the spaceport, orders a drink, the camera makes sure you see the pustulent, greasy alien clean the vessel using the above process. The alien pours a questionable liquid into it, and slides it to the observing hero who has been keeping a stone-faced expression but for a hint of discomposure as he receives the drink. After the briefest pause in frame to let you know he questions what he is about to do, he downs the beverage. You can’t help but cringe along with the hero and think licking the alien might have been safer.

        (Am not comparing or suggesting Montenegrins are in any way shape or form like the hypothetical alien)

  • Fifrok@discuss.tchncs.de
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    Here’s what I would avoid when traveling to Poland:

    • Zakopane, it’s overpriced and very crowded. If you want to visit the area the town is in your better off staying in smaller villages, unless you have to use public transit.
    • Szczecin --not an ‘avoid at all cost’ but more of a ‘there are better cities to visit’-- this-or-that part of the city is always being remodeled/reconstructed and there’s no ‘old city’ with day and night life focused between two shoping centers and some roundabouts in the city center. If you want to go sight-seeing Kraków, Wrocław or Gdańsk are much better choices.
    • Mazury lake district, beautiful lakes and decent nightlife, shit infrastructure - roads are narrow (two bigger cars can’t pass eachother without going offroad) and often lacking sings and other markings
    • Podlaskie Voivodship, even worse infrastructure than Mazury, it’s rural, mainly towns and villages with nothing a tourist might want to see. You might think it’s a good place to go star-gazing but Bieszczady are a lot better for that (Tho you should probably go to a Dark Sky Site for that, there’s one close to Bieszczady, in Slovakia)
    • THE SEASIDE, it’s crowded, expensive, the sea is cold and it’s fumcking wimdy, go to like Italy, Croatia, Portugal or Spain instead

    Also in general avoid capital cities, they are often the worst of major cites in a given country.

    • merari42@lemmy.world
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      My wife an I were on a Roadtrip from Germany to Poland for a holiday and did go to a lot of beautiful places. But Zakopane is stuck in my mind as the most touristy place I did ever go to. The High Tatra mountains are still beautiful but we had to wait in line to even enter the hiking trails. And on the trails it was just hundreds of people trying to make photos without other people in the background.

    • Fifrok@discuss.tchncs.de
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      I forgot two places - both as bad as Zakopane - One is the Hel(l) Peninsula, it’s as overcrowded as Zakopane; but it has a single road (one lane each way) that gets jammed very fast, you can be stuck there like 5 hours, even though it’s only 30 Km long. The second one is Krynica Morska, a town located on the Vistula Spit(separating Vistula Lagoon from Gdańsk Bay, in the Baltic Sea) and it has the same problem as Hel - it’s a popular destination with only one road in and out.

  • Colour_me_triggered@lemm.ee
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    5 months ago

    The capital cities. If you want authentic Europe, find the weird local festivals where people chase cheese down a hill or celebrate local culture or something. That’s real Europe. Fuck the big cities and their galleries and museums.

    https://www.egremontcrabfair.com/

    https://airguitarworldchampionships.com/en/home/

    https://www.latomatinatours.com/

    https://riddu.no/en

    https://www.theshed.co.uk/independent

    https://cipc.pipeclubs.com/events/british-pipe-smoking-championship-2/

    https://www.visitvoss.no/en/smalahovetunet

    https://www.sbf.se/sportgrenar/folkrace

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinkensport

    https://eukonkanto.fi/en/front-page/

    https://www.uphellyaa.org/

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3200955/Festival-girls-dress-shire-horses-boys-push-tiny-ploughs.html

    https://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/news/cheltenham-news/man-shatters-toes-winning-world-8977482

    These are a few things off the top of my head mostly northern and western Europe because it’s what I’m familiar with. Also if you want to see something bizarre, go to Finland on free bucket day. But seriously Europe is full of unusual things to do. Or you could go to yet another gallery and pretend to be interested in paintings.

  • Macaroni_ninja@lemmy.world
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    5 months ago

    Not sure what answers you looking for, if you want to have a carefree vacation just read some reviews of specific countries and regions.

    If you are backpacking or planning a multi-country trip I would check the crime rates of the places, there are many websites with the statistics available, like THIS

    As a general rule of thumb popular places and big cities will have the highest crime rates, while smaller cities and countryside the lowest.

    Also I would avoid solo trips and backpacking in general in the rural parts of less-developed countries, like Romania, etc.

    Pretty much thats it. Europe as a whole is probably one of the safest travel destinations in the earth with some planning and common sense.

  • Cadenza@lemmy.world
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    5 months ago

    France is becoming a far right country on two weeks. Do yourself a favor and stay as far as you can.

      • Cadenza@lemmy.world
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        Honestly, I’ll vote for them. But they disgust me with all their power struggle about who’s going to be prime minister. In doing so, they’re tearing apart the whole thing. They swore that they wouldn’t betray us. They’re betraying us everyday by showing everybody it’s just a struggle between egos. They’re paving the way for the far right too with this ridiculous display of inflated heads.

        I’ll vote for them, then I’ll puke. The only frontliner I’m feeling like supporting in the future is, maybe, Manon Aubry.

      • faercol
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        Yeah, I’m not getting my hopes up unfortunately

          • faercol
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            Who talks to their neighbors in this day and age? They’ll probably vote for the party who wants my death anyway so yeah…

            I mean yeah sure we could be surprised, but things aren’t really going in the right direction