Back on reddit I remember getting downvoted a lot for that time I suggested a guy referring to women as “females” was a red flag. Glad I’m not alone in thinking that.
“It is unfair how I am treated,” he said, “the moment I see a female and say ‘hello there female’ they always leave after saying something. I don’t know what they said because I wasn’t listening but they are being very rude.”
“I don’t understand what it is that makes women seem uncomfortable around me… likely they are just intimidated to be in the presence of a real alpha man like me. I don’t blame them for that.”
I know you’re joking but that last paragraph made me throw up in my mouth a little bit
It’s not really a joke, that’s just two paragraphs from the article copy/pasted.
of a real alpha male like me
hyoomahn feeemales
Kinda got one built-in.
Wait, where’s the part where he calls a woman a *fat whore who can keep chasing Chad but she better not come crying to him when she turns 30 and hits the wall?
*about 75% of this is just a reworded comment I saw today on an article about dating in my city.
Of course. They’re pronouncing it wrong.
Gotta gotta rhyme with tamales.
I don’t understand. My girlfriend calls women “females”.
So long as you’re not using it in a disrespectful way, there’s no reason why women can’t be called what they are. What’s next? Getting upset because I call it a vagina instead of a “pussy”?
I’ve never read any internet comment using “female” as a noun for human women that wasn’t problematic.
This is interesting to me because, as a dude in his 40s, I grew up with adults (and even cartoons) saying ‘woman xxxx’ being the pejorative (i.e. damn woman drivers!). It’s been weird to seem to see this flip.
In addition to what the other reply to you said, I was talking specifically about “female” as a noun.
“females like xyz” and so on.
That’s true, but the OP’s and my experience is that the adjectival use, like “woman doctor,” was pejorative. I associate it with Greatest and Silent Generation relatives. We changed to say “female doctor,” as it sounded more neutral.
Now, there’s a movement back, and lots of younger folks now say that the latter is demeaning, and that “woman doctor” is the respectful phrasing. I know it’s essentially arbitrary, and defined by usage, it’s just interesting to see the evolution.
IMHO fine:
- female doctor
- woman who is a doctor
IMHO weird:
- woman doctor
- a female who is a doctor
So it’s not a reversal. Using “woman” like an adjective is still weird!
I’m with you, but I’ve been reading online that “woman doctor” is now the preferred form.
I see, that is strange!
I think the difference is that one case is a collective noun and the other is a fallacy.
Contrast with using females as a collective noun which can been seen as reductive or offensive on its own without the fallacious logic.
Ah! Yes! I’m not the only one.
Lol! I forget I’m older. That may also contribute to my comfortability with it!
Human women
As opposed to what, robot women?
(All women are human.)
I use it, and never mean it in an offensive way.
“The pronoun “she” is for females, while “he” is for males”.
But now that I see that it’s so widely seen as a slur, I’ll refrain from using it with people who don’t know me well. I’ll use “women and girls”, now.
I’m bothered when ever I hear someone use females as a collective noun for women. Not necessarily because it offends me or because I’m offended on behalf of someone else, but because it sounds so strange to me and the context where it is used is often wildly inappropriate.
The usage is odd; in my experience people who refer to women collectively as females often do not refer to men collectively as males which is often telling about other beliefs and ideas. Also, male/female and man/woman are dichotomies, and using men/females sounds really off.
Referring to people using technical terminology feels reductive and weird to me. Replace female with any other technical identity term and use it the same way: it will get really awkward really fast.
I am aware that the majority of people who use females collectively are not doing so to offend. Hell, the other day, I heard a teacher refer to the girls in her class as females. I doubt she was using it as a pejorative, but she referred to the boys as… boys. The whole thing was weird to me.
Yea. “Female” and “male” don’t sound weird to me in themselves. I don’t see then as in a different category of words than “women” or “boys”. But using it in an inconsistent way would be weird to me as well. If in a class, the girls, or women, are in the same age as the boys, or men, then it should be either “girls and boys”, or “women and men”. Or “females and males”. But “females and boys” is just inconsistent.
It’s generally the difference between using it as a descriptor, and a noun. Noun bad.
Compare “I really like watching the female football game” and “I really like watching the women’s football game”
“Female” isn’t trans-inclusive, but people aren’t going to look at you weird either way you say it.Now compare that to:
“I really like watching the females play football.” and “I really like watching the women play football.”
“Females” here makes you sound like you’re getting sexual gratification from watching the players, or that you see them as nothing more than a vagina, “women” sounds like you might like the game.And/or it makes you sound like a zoologist
Or a statistician. looks around nervously
But what if I am a zoologist?
In my native language it’s highly offensive to call a woman a female. Didn’t know that’s the thing in English.
At the same time we call children “human larve” and everyone is ok with that
It really really rubs most of us the wrong way. Yet, for whatever reason, stupid men are taught that it is ok to call us “females”. It is like we are corpses. Things. Not even people.
I mean I used to do it tons in the army, that was the accepted way to refer to the women. Like “hey where is the females bunk I need to drop something off to sgt jones”
I never meant it disrespectfully, can’t speak for anyone else though.
It’s not so much that the word itself is offensive it’s just that using it as a noun instead of an adjective to refer to a person carries with it connotations and implies you’re referring to a person as if they’re a subject or an animal or something below human.
Oh wow, thanks. Nope, I won’t call women with that word anymore
At the same time we call children “human larve” and everyone is ok with that
In Low Saxon (and Northern German) there’s “Schietbüddel”. Depending on how you translate it it could mean “chaotic/sticky minion” or “bundle of excrement”.
“Bundle of excrement”. Wow I like it
Crotch goblins
“Crotch drippings” is my favorite euphemism for children.
I don’t understand why “gal” isn’t used more. It’s "woman"s single-syllable sister and also isn’t infantilizing like using “girl” can be.
I only ever hear gals use it, usually in group settings. It really is a shame. It just feels dated for whatever reason in other contexts, I guess.
I see what you did there :)
Still waiting for ‘broad’ to become fashionable again…
In my memory, the term was not used kindly even during its peak.
Eww
I used to use “guys and gals” in a work setting, but then I hired an employee who identified as non binary (hope I’m using the right word here) and I didnt want them to feel excluded. I started using “all” or “yinz” instead and it stuck. At this point I just don’t assume pronouns unless someone tells me what theirs are.
Guys, gals, and enby pals is pretty inclusive and rhymes
"Humans, "
Weeb
Those guys are the rapiest ones. It’s disingenuous to act like the types of men who call women ‘females’ aren’t the same guys who neg, space invade and spike drinks.
It’s fairly common where I live, of both genders.
Do people commonly say “men and females” where you live?
No, everybody negs, space invades and spikes drinks.
You neg, space invade and spike peoples drinks? That’s really fucked up bro.
Men/males.
Image of the introductory coursework for people wanting to learn English.
It’s crazy how the eldritch amalgamation that is the English language can have zero rules, yet a dozen unwritten ones of what you can and can’t say. Good luck threading the needle if you aren’t up to date with the latest cultural evolution in America. Add on top that the kids keep inventing sentences worth of new acronyms.
I get what group of people the article is poking fun at, one of them is on proud display in the comment section. Though I still feel people should have a better understanding that as the Internet’s lingua franca you’ll encounter people from a wide range of backgrounds, and their grasp of the language and culture will vary.
I can certainly see it being a struggle for non native English speakers or English speakers from other cultures. Referring to women as females is one of those things thats accurate according to the language, but a lot of bigots have figured out that they can use common words as slurs and people are slower to catch on. Female is unfortunately one of those words; it evokes big “I see you as livestock” energy
Yeah. I think a fair few people misunderstand the intent of my comment. I agree that the connotation of “female” makes it a word one should be conscious about its usage.
I was strictly speaking of how non native speakers of English may struggle with keeping up with what’s socially correct English according to the wider Internet culture.
This, so much. In my language, even as little kids, they called us “males and females”, very rarely “boys and girls”.
Native speakers need to understand that not everyone knows all the connotations that come from every english word. Especially considering some of them are vastly different based on whether it’s used in USA, UK or Australia.
TL;DR, most people are reasonable and can tell the difference. We cool.
People where English is not their first language get a pass. There is usually a very telling inflection when someone says “females” and means it in the bad way. I would rather help people with their English and explain that it is best to not say it that way, than get upset over our language being unnecessarily complicated.
The context of how female is said is even more confusing. Best way I think is if you are referring to a group of people or a specific person as female(s), that is bad. If you are referring to something about our gender, a description, or something impersonal, then that is fine. “Female anatomy.”, “I hate being female.”, “There was a female guard at the station.”
While it is puts me on edge when I hear it (in that bad context), it isn’t like they called me a cunt or something really foul. It is usually just an immediate red flag that we may be dealing with an incel, but let’s see where this goes. Usually doesn’t take long to get a confirmation on how they really meant it.
I personally already know the connotation of “female/s” in English and avoid using it, so that’s not an issue for me.
It was more of a reminder (to some native speakers, yeah, I shouldn’t have generalized) not to assume the worst of people saying it, because they might not know. In the whole thread there was just this one comment reminding people that ESL people exist, and it was pretty downvoted so I wanted to add on that.
Plus, as you said, most of those Tate-types have a dozen other red flags attached to them, so imo there’s not really any point in attacking people just for misusing a word (especially online where you can’t rely on vocal inflection or accent). It just drives non-native speakers away from conversations.
(Also, ironically, as far as I know “cunt” is pretty much a greeting in Australia so even from that alone you can’t really assume anything. Context is always important, unless you know 100% you’re speaking with someone who grew up in the same country)
What are you talking about
I feel like the last paragraph made it pretty clear? Most people on the internet doesn’t have English as their native language, expecting all those people to understand the constantly shifting connotation of every word feels rather ignorant/ethnocentric.
But every language has a constant changing lexicon and a difference between offical and actually used.
English certainly feels like a lot more fast moving than Norwegian, can’t really speak for other languages. That wasn’t even really my point though
My point is that a lot of people seems to have rather strong feelings about something that can often simply be an honest mistake from someone who may not even be fluent in English, let alone understanding the finer nuances of the words
In some that’s true for everyone. Even with in the same language milliseconds can change if you’re precived as rude or not. Many people aren’t aware of this. We Just internalize a rythm and a bunch of rules. Then some one breaks them an they come off as rude or mean. Its just something baked into us.
He cray-cray
Most language courses will have you learn the word woman before you learn female. Is this really an issue?
What issue? I’m not even directly talking about the usage of the word female. I’m talking about the lack of understanding a lot* of English speakers show when “others” use their language.
To use male/female as an example, my language doesn’t even have direct translation for male and female, we only have the equivalent to man/woman when speaking of humans. I could totally understand that someone who aren’t terminally online may be confused of when to use woman and when to use female, especially as female may seem more formal and thus be confused with being the polite option, just as an example.
*far from all of course
Ok I will totally admit that, especially when during DEI discussions or other similar meetings, when my brain is about to say “woman” I can freak out and over-correct and I have absolutely said “females”.
I used to say “boys and girls”, even my female wife says “girls” is fine, but 1 time in 2009 I got yelled at for using “girls” and I have never recovered.
Saying something that may be perceived as offensive and then later realizing you probably should have said it differently is totally different from saying the same thing unabashedly with zero self-awareness
Why can’t you say ‘woman’ when refering to a woman?
Sometimes it feels awkward. I’m getting used to it but for some reason it’s unnatural. My women friends in real life also find it weird to say women, they also say females.
Do you also have ‘man friends’ in real life? Or do you say ‘male friends’?
I don’t really say man either, I guess I would prefer to say male friends or guy friends.
I say females and am one. Title has me wondering if it’s from hearing it so frequently.
unless it’s used as an adjective it definitely sounds like an incel or a ferenghi is speaking
Go watch star trek. Ferengis will absolutely set you straight
I’ve read Fahrenheit 451. Bradbury had interesting thoughts about offensive language, as well.
So do most people, but overuse by idiots doesn’t negate the concept
There’s something to be said for picking one’s battles. The concept stands, as well as the concept of not being in a state of perpetual outrage. Life can be sweeter, for it.
Be well.
I have such a weird take on this, due to being in the military for so long. We absolutely do refer to one another as “males” and “females”.
Ie. “There was a female SSgt that was really helpful in customer service” or “I had to remind a male Soldier to put on his cover when he left the building” or “I had a female troop once”.
However, I try really hard when I’m speaking to a non-military member to switch up my phrasing. Sometimes I still slip up, and I gotta be like “shit, sorry, I mean that woman cashier over there” or whatever it is that I’m talking about.
I will say though, I do distinctly remember having that conversation during basic training, and fucking hating being referred to as “female” in the beginning, and that thought being shared amongst my flightmates. I can still hear the TIs shouting from across the parking lot: “GET OVER HERE RIGHT NOW, FE-MALE!” Ugh.
It was just 16 years ago now, so “female” has become normalized.
In your first examples, you are using female as an adjective. A female troop, a female Sargent, a male soldier. That’s usually fine. Even “that female cashier over there” is probably fine. However if you say “that female over there” or like you pointed out, “get over here right now, female” or really any other instance where female is used as a noun instead of an adjective, that’s where it becomes gross. It’s all about adjective vs noun. Adjective: usually fine. Noun: usually not.
Yeah after I posted the comment, I was reading through other people’s, and someone pointed this exact difference out. This take makes full sense to me!!!
Hahahuaha jokes on them, they don’t know I have a cat so I am sharing a chair with a female at this exact moment in time!
Pet the cat. Pet the kitty! Now!
I do as I am commanded. The kitty has been pet.
cat tax!
a real alpha man like me
ICING ON TOP.
