In commemoration of the upcoming Transgender Day of Visibility (TDOV), President Joe Biden issued a statement praising trans people’s contributions to society and describing actions his administration has taken to counter transphobic bullying and extremism. Additionally, many members of Biden’s Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) also issued their own statements affirming that community health depends on supporting trans people too.
“Transgender Americans are part of the fabric of our Nation,” Biden wrote in his statement. “Whether serving their communities or in the military, raising families or running businesses, they help America thrive. They deserve, and are entitled to, the same rights and freedoms as every other American, including the most fundamental freedom to be their true selves.”
Anyone telling you both sides same are either a bad actor or so incredibly privelleged that they can just not care about this kind of thing.
You know, usually when I read “both sides are the same”, it’s a blue conservative like you trying to make people critical of the Democratic party seem unreasonable.
Both sides are capitalist and conservative, but there are differences for sure. Dont you want more differences?
If you wanna really shut up those people bitchhing from the sidelines, the best way to do so is to put them in the game! Force them to show us how to do things since it’s so easy and they have it figured out.
Switching away from first past the post voting allows people to vote for who represents them best while still counting their vote against those they dont want to win. Just search for videos on FPTP voting if you want an explanation on how and why the spoiler effect exists.
Electoral reform is possible in each individual state (for now), we dont need federal reform! Maine and Alaska have already passed electoral reform.
Republicans are moving to make alternative electoral systems illegal in their states. Republicans LOVE first past the post voting. Just sbsolutely adore it. Why would you want to use the same voting system republicans want?
So what’s the hold up blue states?
Consider starting a campaign to change how we vote in your own state! Force our representatives to compete with fresh outside ideas. We deserve the best representation, not excuses.
HOW was this downvoted.
every time I argue that we should vote third party to move the Democratic party left, people tell me that instead we should focus on electoral/voting reform. And then someone suggests it and gets downvotes.
it’s almost as if people don’t really care 🤔
Voting 3rd part has the opposite effect. Republicans voted 3rd part in 92 to shift policy and lost the presidency for 8 years, and the appointment of 2 lifetime supreme court justices.
But long term it worked … just look at where conservatives are now. The populist movement is stronger than ever.
That’s thanks to propaganda outlets. Fox news going absolutely bat shit insane over the last 15-20 years has done a lot of heavy lifting in that regard :(
That has nothing to do with elections and everything to do with the direction news media has taken. Outrage sells, reasonable politics not so much.
Elections are part of media. Tons of leftists vote for a left candidate would make the news.
Because you’re supposed to follow the script of pretending that democrats are saving democracy and that you should vote blue even if poo. The reality is that democrats are only interested in saving the current power structure, we already don’t have a democracy, both parties do in fact serve the rich first and foremost, and guaranteeing your vote no matter what will not cause the democrats to change their policies. These should be obvious to anyone paying any attention. I wonder if these people lived through the Bush Jr years where democrats were screaming about how bad he was (correctly so), but after he was out of office they continued many of his policies (corporate bailouts, his wars, maintained tax cuts for the rich, etc) and worked to rehabilitate that war criminal’s image.
Yes, republicans are worse, but democrats use that to their advantage to never significantly improve things. It’s the classic good cop, bad cop routine. They’re still cops and they’re both on the same team working against you.
Most succinct description of the situation I’ve seen.
I get why people are so freaked out about voting third party, especially when mass political actions like voting don’t seem to handle nuance well. So advocating a simple slogan like “vote third party” might be irresponsible, but people seem almost irrationally afraid of third party voting in contexts where it should be entirely rational to vote third party.
For example, in a swing state it’s clearly useful to vote for the Lesser Evil (in recent U.S. elections that would be the Democrats, of course). But in states where there is a supermajority and there is almost no chance the state will flip, for example California which will certainly go to the Democrats or Arkansas which will go Republican, voting third party becomes helpful because it might enable the third party to receive federal funding.
There are various objections I have considered to this strategy, the one I think that comes up immediately is that if you vote third party it takes a vote that might otherwise contribute to changing the status of a state as stronghold or swing state, basically those margins matter and you should always be pushing the margin even if not likely to make a difference (just on the slim chance it does make a difference).
In that instance I think it’s just a matter of weighing the good: does the good from voting for the third party justify the slight risk of not being part of an unexpected shift in votes? This is clearly contextual, see recent upsets in Georgia (who went to Biden in 2020) and Pennsylvania (who went to Trump in 2016). I think the responsibility is on the voter to research their state demographics and those probabilities and make a decision. If you want to do less work, sure, just vote for the Lesser Evil.
What I don’t understand is the kind of blind dogmatism that refuses to acknowledge that there even could be reasons to vote third party, and that doing so is wrong a priori.
This is astroturfing.
“anyone who disagrees with me is a bot/shill” okay
I’m a trans person and I don’t appreciate my identity being used to justify voting for someone who literally TODAY sent more weapons to Israel to bomb Palestinians with.
I’m a trans person and condemn anyone who won’t vote to stop a fascist dictator that wants me dead from obtaining the nuclear codes
Yeah you’re cool with voting in the fascist killing Palestinians, and shitting on people for caring about genocide. Very cool.
I don’t like it either, but at least he’s not calling for Israel to finish the job (with a nuke). This is how low our standards have dropped.
It’s a 10 day old account, they are 100% a bad faith actor, and you know this because they don’t acknowledge any of the ways to push for better treatment of Palestinian civilians. They are using them as a prop to tell people to not vote for Joe Biden (which is its own brand of fucked up privileged), even though Joe Biden is pretty famous for being bullied into better positions. Voting against fascists is, indeed, the right move, and Joe Biden might be a centrist liberal, but he isn’t a fucking fascist.
Joe Biden is a fascist
I’m not sure you understand what a fascist is. Look at Modi and his party in India for a contemporary example.
I start with Mussolini
my bff ty
my first post here is asking what Lemmy is lol I’m just new here
And you are acting in bad faith. You set up a straw man argument so you can bash people for whatever their choice is. If you really meant to have actual discussion, you would. Instead you spout right-wing bullshit about “Biden bad boohoo”
You say he is the genocidal one, while he is actively being pushed to change his ways and taking responsibility while correcting the behavior. Slowly but surely. As opposed to the other side, which literally just wants to drop a nuke on the situation.
When people call you a bad-faith actor, it’s because you’re acting in bad faith.
He literally sent more weapons to Israel yesterday. You’re dumb as hell if you think he’s going to push back against the mainstream Democratic opinion that is in support of Israel. Only way to convince Democrats to change is to stop voting for them.
I’m sure you’ve heard all the arguments, if you are curious about my thoughts you can dig through my comment history or do some googling and guess at what they could be.
I think your sphincter is squeezing your neck too tight, and it’s cutting off the circulation to your brain.
Please list the descriptors that show Joe Biden is a fascist, because I’m looking at Umberto Eco’s and I see… maybe 1, if you reach a bit: “appeal to the middle class”
You probably fall under at least 4 though.
he’s funding a genocide, is the leader of a country that has one of the proportionally largest prison populations in the world that are used as slaves, the U.S. is a police state who spies on its own citizens and regularly just bombs/assassinates activist movements. Any president not acting to dismantle that is fascist.
shocking that you’re just learning this now, but the United States are the bad guys
That’s not really a good answer though. Those are policies put in place long before Biden became president, but not only that, you haven’t proposed an alternative. Your current solution is “Don’t vote for Biden” but the outcome is that you either get Biden, a continuation of the status quo at worst, or you get Trump, a continuation of the status quo AT BEST. You can pretend you live in a world where you get a third party candidate, but you don’t.
Which leaves you in an unfortinate bind, since that makes you a fascist by your own definition. You are trying to push a solution that would make the situation at best the same, and at worst, much, much worse. As you said:
I assume you would never take an action that would support a fascist. So, how can you argue that in a First-Past-The-Post voting system (and one that defaults to state legislatures if no majority is made), voting for a third party is a viable solution?
I think you can’t if you are against fascism. You can post links to antifascist movements, organizations, or steps to take, but the American election system is too fucked to argue against the two big parties unless you are ever the optimist, but I don’t think you are if you argue both parties are fascist.
If the Dems lose elections or nearly lose elections because 10% of voters choose a leftist third party, the party will move left to capture those voters. If we keep voting them in as-is, they will have no incentive to change. I am an optimist, actually, because I believe in the capacity for change. The results from the primary elections prove to me that this strategy is viable.
You’re forgetting that Democrats losing means Republicans winning. And when Republicans win elections, it pushes the entire country to the right. It happened with Reagan, the Tea Party, and Trump.
This approach only spirals us further into far right extremism.
You’re forgetting that biden spent almost his entire career in the senate. He’s part of the political machine that put those policies into place. Things are only getting worse, which is how assholes like trump rise to start with. If things were going great, then a candidate like trump wouldn’t have found a foothold.
That’s not what fascism is?
Idk why your definition of fascism doesn’t include labor camps, war-mongering, and a militarized policing of our own people.
Because that’s not fascism. Fascism is hypernationalism and tacit acceptance of political violence to support your goals. Everything you’ve mentioned is usually there with fascist regimes, but it isn’t what makes the regime fascist.
Umberto didn’t invent fascism
Mussolini did
Imagine posting your definition for fascism instead of nothing relevant.
Finally standing up to Benjamin Netanyahu and all those Americans who keep voting for him
Well yeah I condemn any Israeli who votes for him as well.
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I’m only voting for him because the other option and inaction are death sentences. I don’t like the guy at all and would vote for someone else given the option.
That said, for all his centrist tendencies he does seem to occasionally cave in to pressure. It just takes time.
Unfortunately, you’re going to be voting for “not the other option” for the rest of your life since democrats will see that this is the perfect strategy they can use to never have to actually change the status quo.
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Petition for an end to FPTP voting if you want to see change.
Well I’m a trans person and I think you’re a poo-poo head, a meanie even.
You have a right to your OPINIONS but please get the FACTS…
oh cool I’m sure The Israel Times is a great resource. Of course Israel is using them lawfully. Nevermind all the actual reports coming out of Palestine of hospitals being bombed.
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Like the privileged Palestinians getting genocided by your centrist idol biden? This is the same biden who said that we need the republican party, by the way. Interesting that someone saying such flowery words about trans people is so strong in his belief that we need a party that is intent on erasing them. You’re complaining about "both sides"ism, but biden is “both sides” the candidate.
Good that the genocide commited on Palestinians is used universally to bash whoever we dont like.
Or derail any conversation.
Truly a blessing. Sorry I meant disgusting.
Seriously, you know it’s a blessing because even as the tide has started to turn and more politicians are speaking out against it…well, now it’s too late so they’re still terrible and all the same.
You know what’s really disgusting? Dismissing genocide. You can’t stand on a platform of morality when you ignore great evils in favor of flowery words. If you don’t want your precious candidate to be bashed for supporting genocide, here’s a brilliant idea: stop supporting genocide.
People being distracted from the President going online and saying “Trans Rights” by the purely immaterial spectacle of a 9/11’s worth of new dead Palestinians.
bad actor
Tell me how I’m wrong instead of throwing around meaningless labels.
So everyone who disagrees with your conservative agenda is a bad actor? Huh.
Once side does some weak tea pandering in a Facebook post while the other disenfranchises 10,000 newly registered voters to rig a Constitutional Amendment vote.
The solution, as always, is to vote harder. And if we catch you showing disappoint while on your way to the election booth, we reserve the right to blame you for our clown car of corporate flak losers falling flat in the latest round of gerrymandered and voter caged elections.
Creating a national day of visibility == pandering on Facebook. It’s an official act and statement by the president of the United States that acknowledges and shines a light on the struggle of what is currently one of our most oppressed and murdered social groups.
These people really just can’t let someone say “hey maybe Joe Biden is obviously the better option to vote for.” It just really can’t be left alone without someone making a comment like the one I’m replying to right now. I see it in every thread
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My point is that Biden’s stance on trans rights is objectively better than Trump’s and therefore saying both sides are the same on this issue is just ignorant or bad faith discussion. I agree Biden could do better than he has. I’d still vote for him over trump in November if those are my only options.
that’s because you’re either missing or dismissing the context of biden’s 2-faced behavior. he was one of the worst anti-lgbt polictians we’ve ever had in the modern era and it’s only recently that he’s switched sides once it became clear that screwing over lgbt wasn’t popular anymore just to get votes.
Wait, you mean he has evolved over time on the issue you’d like him to evolve on? Fuck him completely?
I said it in another comment, I agree Biden could do better on this topic. I also agree there are other candidates I’d rather vote for than Biden. But if we’re talking about Biden vs Trump, both sides are not the same, and it’s dangerous to several different communities to suggest so.
biden didn’t evolve; he switched once he realized that it was no longer popular to hate lgbt so he could get more votes
you’re the only one saying that both sides are the same; not me.
I won’t make claims to know why his stance has changed, I’ll leave the assumptions to you. All I know is him recognizing the trans day of visibility is an objectively positive outcome, and it wouldn’t happen under Trump.
You seem to be confused, as this whole time my point has been that both sides are not the same. I’m glad you agree with me on that.
the reason(s) why he’s switched speaks to to heart of whether he’s actually pro lgbtq and how much different, if at all, he is than trump on this issue.
biden anti-lgbtq body of work is literally decades long where other contemporary politicians were and are still not and it makes sense to question his genuineness since he’s very much in need of votes in this election and only changed his tune when it benefited him politically.
Comment of the day for me. Thanks.
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What did he do?
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It’s not a great track record, for sure.
Sadly this bit is just redundant.
That said, when going with “what’s popular” happens to align with what’s right, that’s gotta be worth something.
I’m a 90s kid, so I grew up calling my friends all sorts of homophonic slurs. I’ve told some racist jokes in my day, thinking I was edgy.
None of this affected public policy, but I’ll say for sure my views have changed a lot over the last few decades.
Can we say for sure that bidens not just a “fair weather ally?” No I suppose not, but a fair weather ally is still an ally.
What’s popular? That’s literally what I want from a politician and nothing else. That is democracy defined.
Bad actors usually work for the government and if there’s anything the government is pressuring you to do is not voting for parties that aren’t part of the government (red or blue). If there’s anyone privileged here i would point my finger at americans, people getting bombed in gaza or in the middle east don’t even get to decide if they can live the day or not. Let’s not play the politicians game anyway, turning people against each others is one of their oldest trick in the book. If there’s anyone actually privileged in this world it’s them
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You’re either a troll or blind AF
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Substantiate this, motherfucker
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Textbook sealioning.
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Legit question. Is sea lioning the same as trolling? Or is it more specific? I have only heard of the term recently.
It’s a specific form of trolling/bad-faith argument based on this comic. The idea behind sealioning is that you feign politeness and badger someone with seemingly-simple questions (that in reality require spending a sizable amount of time to answer) to get them to try to debate you. This can take the form of asking someone to elaborate a point, or provide citations to support a claim. If the victim takes the bait and responds legitimately, the troll ignores most of the message, claims any citations are invalid for some reason (biased source, misrepresenting what the article says, or just ignoring it exists entirely). The troll then cherry picks a few statements, and asks more questions about those, continuing the cycle, If the victim refers to previous posts, the troll pretends it either didn’t happen or didn’t actually answer their question (it did). If the victim refers to previously linked articles, the troll dismisses them and insists the victim provides “better” articles (that the troll will also dismiss out of hand). If the victim ever tells the troll to fuck off, the troll claims the moral high road and says they just “want a civil discussion” and “reasoned debate” over the topic.
The goal is something like a reverse Gish Gallop. Where a gish gallop aims to overwhelm the victim with more arguments than can be addressed quickly in the hope that your opponent can’t/won’t take the time to respond and walk away, allowing you to claim victory, sealioning aims to trick the victim into spending hours writing a messages that you can respond to in under a minute with a few simple questions, creating a kind of denial-of-service attack.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning
That comic link was good, too.
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bothesidesing is not necessarily saying they are the same. i don’t recall ever seeing someone actually say both sides are the same.
Your in-/ability to recall information is not evidence.
In fact, why don’t you prove to us that you can’t recall information. Please.
seems to me they are not saying they are the same, but that they are both doing bad things.
ah, you weren’t being genuine
https://kolektiva.social/users/bigMouthCommie/statuses/112181077173838043
that doesn’t say they are the same
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You literally said “both sides are bad” in what I linked. You can continue to try to argue the semantics of your exact phrasing and vocabulary, but your intention is both clear and insufferable, no matter how much you try to deny it.
Here’s 3 examples from just a single thread that I was a part of not too long ago (I’d have more but I don’t actively save threads/comments regarding this topic so this is from a thread I could find via my replies that wasn’t deleted).
Better not acknowledge this, I might be wrong lmao
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Maypull said very little in their response so, I’m sure you can add something if you try.
the first two certainly appear to be doing it, but without context, it is hard to say. the third explicitly said one is worse
The context is that it was a thread where people were debating whether people ever say that both sides are the same, which devolved into a debate over whether both sides are the same in some places. I’m not sure how saying they’re like Sarumon vs Sauron is explicitly saying one is worse in the third one, considering this was in response to a meme comparing them to Sarumon vs Gandalf. Aragorn in this comparison is their equivalent of a third party.
theses are all in the same thread? can you link it?
Well I’m trying to avoid sending anyone after the commenters en mass hence why I censored them but if you look in my comment history you can find the thread about a month back.
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I see it every day on socials.
oh? where?
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Hi. I see today is your first day on the Internet. Welcome!
Here is you agreeing with a comment that includes the quote “How are they different from republicans? How is biden different than trump?” just yesterday
https://kolektiva.social/users/bigMouthCommie/statuses/112181807694426359
strictly, they are asking how they are different, not stating that they are the same.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhetorical_question
i think this is probably a fair point, but i also think it’s notable that this person was at the end of a long conversation and clearly emotionally distraught. if you pointed out this thread to them, they’d say “of course they’re not the same, but neither is acceptable” or some variation. and i think that’s a fair position to have.
Then they should’ve just clearly pointed out their problems with Biden (Gaza) and then said that’s why they wouldn’t vote for him.
The only purpose of ever comparing the Republicans and the Democrats and implying they’re the same is to weaponize leftist hate for the Republicans against the Democrats, right before the most consequential election of the century so far.
People have absolutely been doing that, I see it constantly here.
With the benefit of the doubt, this statement is just incredibly ignorant. More likely it’s a straight-up lie though
can you show someone doing this?
Some examples for those reading:
“Both Sides Threaten Democracy”
“Biden Is Just As Bad As Trump”
“Even the libs have accepted at this point Biden can’t even do worse than Trump when it comes to supporting this Genocide. As Biden is 100% all in on Genociding every last Palestinian.”
“Fuck Biden and Fuck Trump. At this point Biden full well knows the Genocide he’s in for. He seems to care more about flattening Rafah than “saving American Democracy”. The libs thinking they can shame people into voting for Genocide are the reason Biden thinks he can keep doing this.”
“Both parties are the same on Israel. But democrats will throw in a little lip service here and there, mild fake condemnation.”
“Candidate 2: I’m going to give guns and money to the person killing ponies but tell them they shouldn’t do it. Leftist: Either way ponies are going to be killed. Let’s try something different. Centrist: Noooo, you have to vote for the proxy pony killer who can’t use his position to do anything or else you’ll get a pony killer in power who’ll use his position to do everything.”
Relevant wikipedia page:
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I see it plenty of times from Republicans. They either love trump or are saying that both sides are equally corrupted (typically when trump does something indefensible)
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Because one is orange and the other isn’t?
And no, they are not equally corrupt. But thank you for the self-report
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And you still aren’t. How brave. Are you by any chance a fan of Tim Pool?
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Democrats have their bad apples, but Republicans are a totally different league.
Also when a scandal happens with a Democrat their voters don’t have any qualms with disowning them, while in the same scenario Republicans will be looking for excuses like the one mentioned above.
Is this your first day on Lemmy? Have you ever been on a lefty subreddit in your life?
this is rhetoric, not evidence
Username checks out
You’re right, @lemmywinks@discuss.online insists Trump is better
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They are exactly the same.
(bear with me folks, I just wanna see how the troll’s algorithm handles it)
They are not the same but they are almost the same. Identical on most important issues such as genocide, police power, prisons, wealth inequality,etc.
They just pick controversial topics that they know will divide people, so they can make us vote for them so the other side won’t win, while both couldn’t care less about anything but money in their pockets.