This is a very good thing. Thank you EU for forcing us dirty heathens in NA to have consumer protections.
Once again, the EU drags the rest of us into modernity kicking and screaming.
I hate the term consumer the only I consume is food . How about buyer or customer just anything but consumer
Consuming does not mean eating. Either you produce, sell or consume a product.
Tough. It is appropriate description for what you are doing. Every tangible thing you buy at some point gets discarded one way or another. You’ve consumed the energy and materials needed to make whatever it is.
You consume and discard many things throughout your life. The fact that you consume so much should make you uncomfortable. I agree with using customer instead of consumer, but only because I want to get away from the idea that your only purpose in life is to consume things. I hate that being a “consumer” is normalized. Consumptive culture is both terrible for the environment and for the health of society.
It is terrible for the environment but it’s the only way to make it work the system we crested: if you don’t consume other people whose jobs consist in providing you with stuff or services don’t get paid, next cycle they won’t have the money to request whatever you sell or do, the system enters a downward spiral for lack of demand. Our system only works like that. There is no escape.
Alexander Anderson would like a word, heathen
Steam deck done. https://www.ifixit.com/Device/Steam_Deck
Isn’t the main issue whether or not there’s an ease to replace? There’s like 20 steps and a bunch of easily breakable cables involved with replacing it currently.
I mean I think you can replace the Switch’s battery too by that standard.
Same site even says it’s only 1 extra step in total, though instead of the cables being in the way, it sounds like the shields a bit more difficult.
But like either of these replacements would require a technical user to do it.
it should be done by 2027 at the latest it sounds like.
‘ease to replace’ to whom?
seems like an impossible to define standard, but I’d be interested to hear what the requirements are
if they supply the necessary tools and steps/videos, is that enough?
Given SLaSZT already gave an answer in
https://kbin.social/m/games@sh.itjust.works/t/202790/Gaming-handhelds-like-the-Switch-and-Steam-Deck-will-need#entry-comment-836808
Which isn’t far from this post
I don’t think you asked this in good faith.
A battery that can be popped out and replaced, with no tools and no risk of damaging any of the other hardware on the board.
Just supplying the tools and steps is absolutely not enough. We’re talking about replacing a part on a $300+ machine. Most people would be scared to do that purely on the merits they couldn’t afford to replace if something went wrong.
True. But this is 10 years old now. Are we going to reduce water resistance over ease of use to repair? Might be. But where so we draw the line?
It’s going to be interesting to see the requirements. I’m hoping for somewhere between ease and keeping water resistance up.
Says 2-4 hours and “difficult” on the battery replacement page
And requires heating + prying.
If this is considered replaceable, I wonder what an non-replaceable battery would be. Soldered to the main board and trying to unsolder it causes a failsafe to short the CPU?
its an easy fix. replace the adhesive with stretch release battery adhesive.
Non replaceable batteries are on iPhones, since they are paired with the motherboard, and if you replace it, iOS will keep warning you every day about a non genuine battery presents in your device.
Nah. The battery on my old Samsung Galaxy S4 literally just pops out with minor force applied as soon as the cover is off, leaving the phone ready for a new one to be slotted in. That is what “user replaceable” means.
Don’t get me wrong, I am familiar with electronics, have a diploma in electrical engineering, have soldered hundreds/thousands of components, etc. and I could do this easily (though I have concerns about heating the battery). But most people cannot currently replace the battery without significant headaches.
Steam deck done.
Not really. Look up the Linus Tech Tips teardown. The battery is glued in super hard. Linus said he spoke to Valve about that and according to him Valve said they’re looking into making it easier to replace at a later date. Since then I’ve not seen any reports about a change.
Heat gun on the battery, that sounds fun
Your right. It’s not the best but till allows you to replace it. Unlike iPhone and Android since they are much harder to replace.
Some Android phones are decent, like the Fairphone. But most are a giant pain.
my mom has one that you can just replace the batery. it’s a ZTE
i think ‘user replaceable’ should involve no tools, and a minimum of time. if step one involves removing eight tiny screws, and it only gets more cumbersome from there, i don’t think it counts.
The currebt rule says “No propritary tools” which seems reasonable when you add in that glueing in is considered “non-replacable” too. The GBA SP needed a single screw to hold in it’s battery and nothing else. Plus with proper threading, screws last much longer than plastic clips.
There’s something to be said for this as well certainly but I do think the deck is still much better overall than will be required since they actually offer spare parts for sale for pretty much everything and repair guides too.
The steam deck battery is glued on? Fucking seriously? Jesus
I think there should be a requirement for easily expandable storage as well.
Switch and Steam Deck seem to be OK for this, but I’d like to further piss on Apple’s chips.
I think it should be fully replaceable storage, not just expandable because a lot of companies throw out completely fine devices to get rid of sensitive information on the soldered drives
Yeah, in place of the EU I would fuck apple up for their decision on soldered ssd. It’s not only stupid, but just inhuman towards nature.
And Samsung
Excellent, I like that I can replace batteries easily from my old handhelds, the only issue for that case is finding trusted ones.
New switch confirmed before 2027!
According to Phil Spencer, it could be as soon as next year… So 2024
It’s a good thing Valve makes the official parts and tutorials available on ifixit for the deck
The battery is still unnecessarily glued in with permanent adhesive that requires a heat gun to melt it though.
I never understand why batteries need to be glued in at all, surely pure friction will keep them in place. If you really need them stuck down use pull tabs.
Thank you EU! Please come to America and slap the shit outta everyone.
Hopefully we’ll get our right to repair act together.
Interestingly enough, I sometimes get into disagreements with my employer’s German branch because they want to do the bare minimum for standards while the US branch prefers to have internal standards that are more stringent
Is there an example you can share? I’m curious to understand the differences you mean. Thank you
Unfortunately I can’t really go into detail due to NDA
Do you guys have reasonable government there? In USA it’s not about people, it’s about the corporations and the charities they create to lauder money and get tax breaks on top of their foreign bank accounts.
Dude… I’m in the US
This is a fantastic change, every battery powered device should have self serviceable replaceable parts if it is safe for an untrained individual to do so.
if it is safe for an untrained individual to do so.
Remove this part and I agree. If you don’t know how to repair it yourself, you can always go to an independent repair shop. But if manufacturers don’t have to make parts available, you are at the mercy of the manufacturer.
So make the parts available and publish schematics, and those who want to can attempt the repair themselves, and those who don’t can take it to a repair shop.
Manufacturers use the “but it’s dangerous!” excuse to lock people into their ecosystem and/or support planned obsolescence. That needs to end.
During the early days of cell phones, replaceable batteries was the norm, not the exception, and it was as complicated to perform as your TV remote. No need for training. In these modern days, you may want to turn off your phone cleanly before proceeding, but that’s pretty much it!
Let’s not even talk about the early handheld game sets: the GameBoy (Nintendo) and GameGear (Sega), that were using regular disposable batteries (rechargeable ones were recommended though!).
Vendors have made our devices complicated to repair to lower costs and later to make our smartphones water resistant. They started off being easy to disassemble and re-assemble.
3.5mm jack! Sd cards! IR transmitter!
Steam Deck has 2/3 but an IR blaster would be dope. I wish phones still had them too.
Hopefully this doesn’t just manifest itself as simply not selling these devices in the EU. Seems highly unlikely that would be the case, but a possibility I suppose.
I doubt they would do that since the EU is such a big market
The EU market is almost as big as the US market so yeah they’d be giving an awful lot up.
The Steam Deck is nearly there with replaceable batteries. You need to have a bit of experience to do it, but Valve doesn’t impede on you or your warranty when performing your own battery replacement.
Yeah allowing it without voiding the warranty is massively useful, but Valve does not make it easy to replace the battery and would likely be unable to sell it in the EU under the current design (ifixit suggests a 2-4 hour process for an experienced person). I think it’s a huge step up from some manufacturers, but a good number of changes would need to be done to make it actually user replaceable. I’m sure they’ll get there though!
Well that’s why they are been given until '27.
Hopefully this doesn’t just manifest itself as simply not selling these devices in the EU. Seems highly unlikely that would be the case, but a possibility I suppose.
EU is ~450 million people
lots of potential customers, with money.
its almost always worth it.
it’s 25ish % of apples revenue, for example.
Steam Deck with swappable batteries would be badass.
I have a 2012 asus s46c laptop. Replacing its battery is as easy as sliding a nitendo switch joycon into/out of the console. Other laptops from around that time have similarly easy to remove batteries. There’s no lack of know-how and I doubt making it easily replaceable is “more expensive” during production. Any company that solders or glues them must do it out of pure spite against the customers.
I learned to crack open my laptop shell and replace the battery, which saved me 30 bucks when capacity was dead and I was getting a spicy pillow in the works.
My model had an easily searchable servicing guide, and I’d followed it to replace the thermal paste as well. That being said, I am looking for a future replacement as it no longer runs some indie games I have and there’s no way to upgrade its internals to newer standards. My dear laptop is future e-waste, as it pains me to say.
This industry needs to go back to focus on repairability. It would push for more sustainable part and product designs, which has become a big factor in purchase consideration lately.
Framework is doing some very cool stuff if you haven’t heard of them! Their upcoming 16 inch laptop will support modular, upgradeable graphics cards.
Waiting for them to ship to my country. I really like what they are doing. You can upgrade your laptop and then use the old internals as a mini pc for example…
I have been following the developments for Framework, and really hope the modular design for laptops will go the way of the usb in adoption throughout the industry. We could benefit from less becoming e-waste.
I wish the EU would just stop getting their grubby hands ibto everything they possibly can
Gotta love the reddit-tier “downvote anyone who disagrees” mindset here. It’s like I never even left reddit!
Genuinely curious why you are against pro consumer legislation?
I’m against regulations that get between parties and enforce terms onto voluntary agreement. Why is it the position of government to tell me what products I should and shouldn’t want to buy? If you want shit with removable batteries, cool, go out and make your demands heard. But why should your demands be pushed onto everyone else as “pro-consumer” when it ignores the demands of literally any consumers who have different preferences than you? What about the consumer that doesn’t give a fuck about usb-c or removable batteries? Why should they be made to buy products designed around standards that aren’t important to them?
If you want shit with removable batteries, cool, go out and make your demands heard.
They have. That’s why the regulators are making these laws.
But why should your demands be pushed onto everyone else as “pro-consumer”
It’s pro consumer because it benefits consumers. As of right now, most portable electronics have a built in expiration date. Most people lack the skills to replace a built-in battery and official stores rarely do replacements, so it’s down to a 3rd party shop which is difficult for less knowledgeable consumer to find.
It’s the same reason why we have any regulations against anti-consumer practices. It’s because these practices often rely on deceptive practices and consumers ignorance. In this case, the consumers are not informed that the device they are buying is built to expire after a few years.
I don’t see any argument you could make about usb-c or removable batteries hindering your usage of the device.
Most countries mandate that products come with a warranty. I haven’t heard anyone saying “what if I want to buy a product without a warranty?” Because why would you?
They have. That’s why the regulators are making these laws.
You’re aware that not every personal preference has to be enforced by law, correct? You can express your preferences without calling for any form of government action whatsoever.
It’s pro consumer because it benefits consumers
No, it benefits some consumers. I, for one, very much would not benefit from this. Batteries replaceable to the standard the EU wants absolutely have downsides, primarily concerning space, meaning either larger devices, or smaller batteries, and in some cases, likely both. For example, if you open up a modern iPhone, you’ll find that the battery takes up every nook and cranny it could be fit into. And the phones still maintain a slim design. That shit is basically outright impossible to make under this standard of idiot-serviceability. And because I’m perfectly fine with having to use big scary tools like a soldering iron and heat gun, I have exactly zero problems with buying devices that would require them for service, especially so considering the benefits.
Most people lack the skills to replace a built-in battery and official stores rarely do replacements, so it’s down to a 3rd party shop which is difficult for less knowledgeable consumer to find.
Which doesn’t fucking impact me at all. I’m not a less knowledgeable consumer. So why should I be stuck playing by rules for their benefit?
I don’t see any argument you could make about usb-c or removable batteries hindering your usage of the device
USB c isn’t some pinnacle of design. You seriously find it unthinkable that any cable could ever be superior in any way? And I already covered downsides to the idiot-servicable batteries.
Most countries mandate that products come with a warranty. I haven’t heard anyone saying “what if I want to buy a product without a warranty?” Because why would you?
More examples of regulations isn’t an argument for further regulations because law is not inherently self justifying.
Are you being paid to take every single bad take possible or what?
Lol says the big government simp
Lol says apple simp. See how that’s not actually a counter argument see how you actually have to explain your points in order for them to be valid and see how you failed to do so because every single point you come up with lacks evidence.
You have said that it is impossible to make efficient batteries that a user replaceable, but you have failed to demonstrate why this is the case. Phones have historically had use of replaceable batteries for years it’s been fine. Manufacturers just realized they could force people to buy new phones more easily if they didn’t make the batteries replaceable, it’s got nothing to do with efficiency, and everything to do with anti-consumer capitalism.
Try not talking like this, you’ll have more meaningful interactions in your everyday life which aren’t immediately hostile to everyone actually engaging with you, resulting in mutually beneficial discussions rather than the arguments you’re clearly constantly looking for.
Good god you’ve missed the point haven’t you?
If you want shit with removable batteries, cool, go out and make your demands heard. But why should your demands be pushed onto everyone else
Because companies are not providing products with removable batteries so the consumers refusing to buy products with non-removable batteries doesn’t work because there’s no alternative product to purchase. Manufacturers know they have consumers in monopoly so they have no reason to change.
What about the consumer that doesn’t give a fuck about usb-c or removable batteries?
The USB c-thing is not just about user friendliness it’s also about the environment. Constantly having to throw old charges away because their incompatible with new products produces an enormous amount of e-waste, everyone using the same charger reduces it, which is only a good thing. Also the Apple charger which is what I’m assuming you’re going on about is actually less safe than the usb-c standard. I think we can all agree that manufacturers should use safer options when they become available.
Why should they be made to buy products designed around standards that aren’t important to them?
If a product has a feature you don’t care about, why do you care, just don’t use it and you’re fine.
Because companies are not providing products with removable batteries so the consumers refusing to buy products with non-removable batteries doesn’t work because there’s no alternative product to purchase
There are plenty of products with removable batteries. Not my problem if you don’t want them. You’re objectively incorrect in saying no alternative products are available.
The USB c-thing is not just about user friendliness it’s also about the environment
Cool, don’t give a damn
Also the Apple charger which is what I’m assuming you’re going on about is actually less safe than the usb-c standard
I’m talking more generally about any cable anywhere with superior elements to usb c. But yeah, the lightning port apple made was a massive improvement over micro USB, the standard at the time for everyone else, and is still a significantly more durable charger port than usb c given its external connectors.
I have plenty of issues with apple, but they’re a perfect example of making good products that don’t conform to these crappy legal standards.
If a product has a feature you don’t care about, why do you care, just don’t use it and you’re fine
You understand the irony in saying this given that you’re of the position that the government should force your preferred features into products regardless, no? I care because I’m stuck with all the downsides of features you want, and companies are literally prohibited from selling me other options.
Products with non-removable batteries are bad for the environment in a number of ways. They hurt even the ones not interested in the product.
OK and?
And the ones getting hurt don’t want to.
How dare they make things better for us!
Just because something it better for you, it doesn’t mean it’s better for everyone
Now try that again and explain why it’s not better.
If you’re completely incapable of seeing how different people have different priorities in devices they want, i don’t see any purpose in bothering with you further.
Again, you aren’t specific, you just throw random stuff around.
Don’t bother then, since you haven’t bothered to say why this is bad for consumers/everyone and instead spent the past two posts avoiding it completely.
I’ve provided just as much to this conversation as your meaningless nay-saying has. Enjoy a block, shitcan
Lmao. Are you 12 or something? Dude asked for your reasoning so he could better understand why you don’t want it.
How does replaceable batteries affect your consumption in a negative way? I think we’re all curious on this one.
It only has to be better for most people for this to be a net gain. Nintendo won’t otherwise provide us with a choice of whether or not the battery is replaceable.
What most people want should have exactly fucking zero bearing on what I am able to purchase for myself
The alternative is that a minority decides what you’re able to buy.
This guy’s whole comment history section is about arguing and being a contrarian. I’ve tagged him as such.
I guess some trolls found their way over.
I downvoted you because every comment from you makes you more of an ass then the previous. You spouted your nonsense opinion and then refused to even elaborate it - either you are here to troll or you have no arguments. However in the end you are just a rude ass.
Corpo account detected
if
downvote anyone who disagreesonly applies to opinions like this, the i guess im gonna keep doing itYes I’d like one complaint, hold any rationale or reasoning. Thank you.
I wish the EU would just stop getting their grubby hands ibto everything they possibly can
its for the environment… EU has set carbon emission goals etc by 2030, and 2050 ?
batteries are terrible for the environment…
but one thing that is worse is… throwing away a used phone because the battery is terrible, because replacing the battery is gonna cost the same as a new phone.
my last 3 phones, for example, where all replaced because the battery was shit. unable to replace it without paying the same as a new phone…
making products having a replacable battery (available to purchase as well) will cause fewer products to be produced, meaning fewer emissions.
also the old batteries have to be recycled 100%.
OK and? The EU can still go fuck itself. Having a shitty plan doesn’t make every shitty step somehow not shit.
Ok
Maybe you should go back to r/conservative. I’m sure you’d fit in great there…
Everything with a battery needs to have a replacable battery by 2027.
electric cars, phones, wireless mice, headphones etc etc etc
Some need to be “user replacable”
some needs to be replacable by a professional (electric car batteries, for example)
Isn’t pretty much everything replaceable in Steam Deck? Including official guides?
Yes, but ideally you can swap the battery without having to disassemble the entire thing.
That’s not what the EU law says, it says it needs to be user replaceable, which means:
- it mustn’t void warranty
- it must be doable using common tools
I know what it says, that’s why I said “Ideally.”
Is soldering iron a common tool?
I think so, at least I have one.
I have one but failed every time i tried to use it…
You don’t disassemble the entire thing. You remove a few screws and remove the back cover. There are some plastic clips to be mindful of, but side from that, it’s not much harder than upgrading RAM in a laptop.
Compare this to something like an iPhone that is sealed shut with adhesive, and you have to peel off the fragile glass digitizer and screen off. Then remove every component, and the battery is bound to the back of the chassis with adhesive. And Apple wants to sue outlets that actually do this.
Totally different game.
I’m not saying it’s hard, and I’m not averse to taking apart my electronics. But “not much harder than upgrading RAM” in a laptop still doesn’t mean it’s a pleasant experience.
What would you prefer? Hot-swappable batteries add bulk 🙂
