Poll released Wednesday shows divisions by age and political lines, with 35% overall saying campaign against Palestinians is genocide
    • FuglyDuck@lemmy.worldEnglish
      35·
      10 months ago

      way down at the bottom here::

      opt in polling from web based “interview”. So, probably. nobody even remotely tech savy (aka has an ad blocker) ever participated. but anyhow… here’s what pew research has to say about the effects of interview mode:

      Where differences occurred, they were especially large on three broad types of questions: Items that asked the respondent to assess the quality of their family and social life produced differences of 18 and 14 percentage points, respectively, with those interviewed on the phone reporting higher levels of satisfaction than those who completed the survey on the Web.

      Questions about societal discrimination against several different groups also produced large differences, with telephone respondents more apt than Web respondents to say that gays and lesbians, Hispanics and blacks face a lot of discrimination. However, there was no significant mode difference in responses to the question of whether women face a lot of discrimination.

      Web respondents were far more likely than those interviewed on the phone to give various political figures a “very unfavorable” rating, a tendency that was concentrated among members of the opposite party of each figure rated.

      Statistically significant mode effects also were observed on several other questions. Telephone respondents were more likely than those interviewed on the Web to say they often talked with their neighbors, to rate their communities as an “excellent” place to live and to rate their own health as “excellent.” Web respondents were more likely than phone respondents to report being unable to afford food or needed medical care at some point in the past twelve months.

      ultimately, the legitimacy of the poll would depend on where they solicited their subjects in the poll. You’re likely to get a far different answer with advertisements on Truth Social than you would with advertisements on, lets say, a palistinian-american subreddit. but that wasn’t addressed in the report, so. we’ll never really know.

      • Shirasho@lemmings.world
        26·
        10 months ago

        Opt-in polling is so bad. It means you only get answers from people with strong opinions. They are polls where the results are shaped like a U instead of a bell curve so it rarely represents the actual 95 percentile.

      • breakfastmtn@lemmy.ca
        6·
        10 months ago

        I don’t think it’s opt-in in that way though. They have a pre-existing list of millions of pre-screened people and they’re selecting a representative sample from that list. Fivethirtyeight ranks them fairly highly among other polls – certainly high enough for this opinion poll to be considered accurate.

        • FuglyDuck@lemmy.worldEnglish
          2·
          10 months ago

          It’s still selecting from a list of people who have something to say, though.

          As far as how accurately they represent broad swaths of america… well, that’s a different matter. I would expect your average american to be far more luke warm to any given subject than respondents to a poll.

          • breakfastmtn@lemmy.ca
            6·
            10 months ago

            That’s probably just a problem with polls though – people who won’t answer aren’t included. But they’re saying that 26-32% of Americans are “unsure,” and that sounds pretty lukewarm. Their methodology does sound odd to me too but if it was flawed it would show in the election data, right? Elections are a brutal testing ground. Hundreds of surveys have been predictive and high quality on average.

            • FuglyDuck@lemmy.worldEnglish
              4·
              10 months ago

              Agreed on all of that.

              I would have guessed 1/3 are “wtf! stop it”, a 1/3 are “bomb them harder!” And then there’s everyone else just doing their thing, going to work. Going to school.

        • Hamartia@lemmy.world
          2·
          10 months ago

          Fivethirtyeight only grades them on their ability to predict american election results. I don’t think that’s the same as advocating for their efficacy in producing leading public opinion polls.

    • tsonfeir@lemm.ee
      14·
      10 months ago

      I wonder how many people in that poll could locate Gaza on a map with no names.

        • gregorum@lemm.eeEnglish
          3·
          10 months ago

          “Indy, your father had the book. That’s why the Nazis were after him. But they never found the book! The book that contained The Map With No Names!”

          “That’s what he sent to me, Ilsa— he sent me the book!”

          [digs package out of pocket]

      • orclev@lemmy.world
        7·
        10 months ago

        I couldn’t, but I also couldn’t find Israel… or Greece… or Idaho… I’m just really bad at geography in general.

          • MelastSB@sh.itjust.works
            13·
            10 months ago

            Yes, about how champagne must come from the Champagne region of France, otherwise it’s just sparkling wine. I don’t know where the exact quote comes from though

            • krakenfury@lemmy.sdf.orgEnglish
              6·
              10 months ago

              It also references Germany, since the word “genocide” was invented to describe the Nazi crimes against European Jews (the Holocaust).

            • mPony@lemmy.world
              5·
              10 months ago

              champagne must come from the Champagne region of France

              for something that’s been so extensively memed I would have thought Knowyourmeme would have an entry for this. I’m not finding one, though. Even a “research paper” about the subject doesn’t pin down the earliest time it was used in this way.

          • Maggoty@lemmy.world
            3·
            10 months ago

            Yes, to the anti-semite police who will tell you with a straight face that you’re making the Holocaust seem better than it was by calling anything else a genocide.

  • bedrooms@kbin.social
    61·
    10 months ago

    Imagine you, your friends and your family get killed and washed away from your land, and 2/3 of US people don’t believe it’s genocide.

    • pjwestin@lemmy.world
      36·
      10 months ago

      Actually 1/3 said it is genocide, 1/3 said it isn’t, and 1/3 said they didn’t know. Also, only1/3 of Americans saying this is a genocide isn’t great, but it does represent a huge shift in opinion in a short time. Both our political parties support Israel, our news media doesn’t cover Palestinians very sympathetically, and our education system tells a very favorable version of Israel’s founding (most Americans don’t even learn about the Nakba). I don’t think criticism of Israel has ever been this mainstream (at least in my lifetime).

      • bedrooms@kbin.social
        4·
        10 months ago

        Actually 1/3 said it is genocide, 1/3 said it isn’t, and 1/3 said they didn’t know

        That means

        1. 1/3 believe it’s genocide
        2. 1/3 believe it’s not
        3. 2/3 do not believe it’s genocide
        • pjwestin@lemmy.world
          8·
          10 months ago

          I see what you’re trying to say, but that’s not really true. You could say, “2/3 of people would not say they thought it was a genocide,” but that’s not the same as saying, “2/3 do not believe it’s genocide.”

          It’s a small but important distinction. It’s the equivalent of saying, “1/3 of people are religious, 1/3 of people are atheist, and 1/3 of people are agnostic,” and then trying to say that means, “2/3 of people don’t believe in God,” instead of, “2/3 of people aren’t religious.”

    • gapbetweenus@feddit.de
      16·
      10 months ago

      Murdering people at a music festival and taking hostages might have an effect on public perception.

      • qdJzXuisAndVQb2@lemm.ee
        30·
        10 months ago

        The problem is, before they wemt on that murdering spree, the western world pretty much ignored their plight, or maybe tutted when they chucked a rocket or two over the border. But any kind of “proper” political solution was flatly ignored. It’s not a justification, but I have to say that I umderstand why that situation led to a “fuck it, let’s just rampage” attitude. And look, they actually have a tonne of eyeballs and attention on their shitty situation (and shitty leaders), so maybe something will come of this. Palestinians are paying an exorbitantly heavy price for it, though.

        • gapbetweenus@feddit.de
          14·
          10 months ago

          Sure, but again - if you murder people at a music festival and take hostages, even if you might have reasons to do so - you can expect quite a lot of people to not be on your side. The only thing for sure is that terrorists won that one.

            • gapbetweenus@feddit.de
              6·
              10 months ago

              Absolutely. Not sure why you would think I don’t understand the hatred Israel is getting.

              The only thing for sure is that Israel won that one.

              Not sure what Israel won, despite making sure there will be another generation of Palestinian freedom fighters with rather questionable methods.

                • gapbetweenus@feddit.de
                  4·
                  10 months ago

                  I wasn’t making a statement about you, I just wanted to demonstrate the statement can be made in any way.

                  But you were responding to a actual person, me. So it would have helped if you clarified it wasn’t about me - don’t you think?

                  Israel bred the Hamas of tomorrow for sure. But they did win in terms of getting closer to turning Gaza into a settlement.

                  Even that sounds to me like a win for the terrorists - but I can see, people have different view.

        • grue@lemmy.worldEnglish
          8·
          10 months ago

          It’s not a justification, but I have to say that I understand why that situation led to a “fuck it, let’s just rampage” attitude.

          Reminds me of this.

      • PriorityMotif@lemmy.world
        11·
        10 months ago

        Two wrongs don’t make a right. A county based on abrahamic religion should know that. It just proves that they don’t actually believe in their own religion and only hide behind it whenever it’s convenient for them, like saying anybody who disagrees with them supports Hamas.

        • gapbetweenus@feddit.de
          8·
          10 months ago

          Two wrongs don’t make a right

          Absolutely agree.

          A county based on abrahamic religion should know that

          Dude, have you seen all the shit countries based on abrahamic religions have done through out the history?

          ike saying anybody who disagrees with them supports Hamas.

          And the other side says that anyone disagreeing with them is a genocidal nazi. I would say the whole discussion at this point is rather heated and fucked up.

        • FlowVoid@lemmy.worldEnglish
          4·
          10 months ago

          Which Abrahamic religion are you referring to?

          If anyone injures his neighbor, as he has done it shall be done to him, fracture for fracture, eye for eye, tooth for tooth; whatever injury he has given a person shall be given to him. Whoever kills an animal shall make it good, and whoever kills a person shall be put to death. (Leviticus 24:19-21)

    • Doorbook@lemmy.world
      15·
      10 months ago

      Average Us public have no clue what is going on in their own country, it is actually amazing there 1/3 know at least there is a genocide taking place.

    • Kbobabob@lemmy.world
      20·
      10 months ago

      How are Americans this brainwashed?

      This isn’t limited to the US. What are Israeli citizens doing? Personally i think the US should just stay the fuck out of it and take back whatever stuff we can that we gave them. Cut off support and actively denounce, but they won’t.

      • GONADS125@feddit.de
        39·
        10 months ago

        There’s no justification for Hamas’ terrorism, nor is their justification for Isreal’s genocide.

        • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
          26·
          10 months ago

          They don’t care how loudly you condemn Hamas. Scream it till you’re blue in the face and they’ll just call you a Hamas sympathizer anyway.

          • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.worldEnglish
            14·
            10 months ago

            Among the standard litany of accusations, gaslighting, condescension, and abuse that people who support genocide use instead of defending their position. Because they know their pro-genocide position is indefensible.

  • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
    28·
    10 months ago

    I think that shows that this is not the issue that is going to really hurt Biden. What will hurt him is if the economy for the average person hasn’t improved by election day. And I doubt it will. So I sure as fuck hope he doesn’t lose to Trump.

    • Hegar@kbin.social
      13·
      10 months ago

      this is not the issue that is going to really hurt Biden

      That’s not my reading of the poll:

      35% say it is, 36% say it isn’t, with 29% undecided.
      Almost half of those surveyed aged 18-29, 49%, say Israel is committing genocide, with 24% disagreeing and 27% uncertain.
      The figures are broadly similar for registered Democrats, who believe 49%-21% in the genocide characterization, while 30% are undecided.

      Half of all young people and half of all Democrats believe it’s a genocide, with more undecided than disbelieving. Those numbers are not likely to get better as the IDF kills more Palestinians.

      Biden’s not likely to pick up republican votes based on this issue, but he is quite likely to drive down youth and democrat turn out by being out of touch with his base.

        • NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social
          10·
          10 months ago

          No? Half of Democrats believe it’s a genocide, while only 21% believe it’s not. The rest are undecided. This is a big deal, because even if a tenth of the people who believe it’s a genocide decide to stay home that’s enough to lose Biden the election.

  • Rapidcreek@lemmy.world
    28·
    10 months ago

    • 67% said a ceasefire should only happen if the hostages are released and Hamas is removed from power

    • 83% said October 7 was a terror attack, including 74% of those aged 18-24

    • 80% said they support Israel over Hamas, including 57% of those aged 18-24

    • 69% said Israel was trying to avoid civilian casualties in the Gaza Strip and 66% said Israel was just trying to defend itself

    • 74% said Hamas’s attack was genocidal

    https://harvardharrispoll.com/

    • FuglyDuck@lemmy.worldEnglish
      42·
      10 months ago

      this is depressing.

      I’m not going to comment on whether or not Hamas’ attack was genocidal, because even if they meant it to be, I just don’t they have the capability. but like… Israel is bombing fucking hospitals and refugee camps inside the strip. That’s not how you go about “avoiding civilian casualties”.

      the only side worth supporting here are the civilians caught in the middle.

        • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
          23·
          10 months ago

          Israel tells you this and you just take their word for it.

          Al Shifa was supposed to be a Hamas command center. Israel promised us it was a command center, they gave us audio recordings as proof, they had a whole mockup of the suspected underground facilities.

          There wasn’t shit, just a sub basement Israel dug.

          Stop believing Israel.

        • BreadstickNinja@lemmy.worldEnglish
          23·
          10 months ago

          Israel also uses human shields and they have been at the core of its expansion policy for decades. They call them “settlers.”

          This double standard pisses me off more than just about anything else about the conflict. Israel is the undisputed champion of using civilians as cover for its military and expansionist goals.

          And before anyone tries to claim this bullshit that they are acting without the authority of the state, first tell me who Netanyahu put in charge of settlement policy.

        • FuglyDuck@lemmy.worldEnglish
          15·
          10 months ago

          you’re not wrong.

          but we’re still waiting for proof that Hamas has used a hospital as a base of operations.

          another thing everyone knows: The IDF lies.

        • Ook the Librarian@lemmy.world
          5·
          10 months ago

          Human shields should not be used. Human shields should not be bombed. I know this sounds like enlightened centrism, but it’s pretty clear, only the civilians were innocent. I cannot, simply cannot, support bombing a human shield. There is no point in defending it.

          “Hamas uses human shields and has been for a long time. We know this. Everyone knows this.” only points to a clear bad guy if the human shield isn’t bombed. Never have I uttered one breath of support for Hamas. Using a human shield is deplorable.

          Many different nations expressed support for the US in war efforts after 9/11. That support slowly dwindled as more and more atrocities were reported. Israel is speedrunning support loss.

  • Furedadmins@lemmy.world
    23·
    10 months ago

    If that headline said one third of Americans don’t believe Israel is commiting genocide which is also an accurate from the results it would set a very different tone.

    • FaceDeer@kbin.social
      9·
      10 months ago

      Consider how out-of-touch vast swathes of Americans are on foreign affairs, or even on domestic affairs, and it’s pretty reasonable IMO. I suspect a major chunk of the people answering this don’t even know that anything significant has changed in the past few months and this “genocide/not-genocide” answer is just based on their vague general knowledge of the usual Israel/Palestine interaction.

      Frankly, I think 1/3 answering “genocide” sounds positive to me. That’s enough to perhaps make some politicians think “maybe I can’t wholeheartedly throw complete support behind Israel and not have to worry about it having an electoral impact this time.”

    • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.worldEnglish
      5·
      10 months ago

      I’m guessing there are people who know it’s a genocide, support it because it’s a genocide, but won’t call it a genocide for various reasons.

      Some of them may even be Republicans. The ones I’ve seen mostly scream accusations and abuse if you say that Democrats shouldn’t be supporting genocide.

    • adriaan@sh.itjust.works
      18·
      10 months ago

      100% agree that we should use the term with caution and precision. That said, Israel is committing a genocide.

    • Toneswirly@lemmy.world
      8·
      10 months ago

      I admire any call for civility, so long as it comes in good faith. I will assume good faith on your part. I, without any doubt, believe that Israels Government has nothing less than the eradication of the Palestinian Ethnic Group from the region in their plans. Call that whatever you want, it is still fucking evil.

      • sailingbythelee@lemmy.world
        3·
        10 months ago

        The bar for plausibility is very low, and rightly so, because the intention is to intervene early and protect civilians. The court will most likely issue an order to stop the fighting for humanitarian reasons. However, it will probably take a couple of years before they make a determination regarding the allegations of genocide.

        • neptune@dmv.socialEnglish
          3·
          10 months ago

          Had to re read this a few times. Civilians are dying. The UN should stop it on humanitarian grounds. But hey, it’s the people calling it a genocide that need to be focused on. 🤔

        • Oliofizodos@feddit.de
          9·
          10 months ago

          I know this is a troll but just to be clear the role of the ICJ is literally to determine whether Israel’s alleged actions are capable of being covered by the Genocide Convention. Today they decided that this is indeed the case and the measures they announced, as meager as they are, are legally binding.

          • sailingbythelee@lemmy.world
            1·
            10 months ago

            Calling someone names because they disagree with you isn’t helpful to the conversation, if that is indeed why you are here.

  • mydude@lemmy.world
    7·
    10 months ago

    “believe”… Even ‘positive’ articles sneaks in some doubt in the headline. At least dobt your lyin’ eyes, you pleb.