there’s no meme, no spiel, that’s it.

  • Krafty Kactus
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    884 months ago

    Assuming you mean the Palestinian people and not Hamas, fuck yeah we do!

  • MossOPM
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    714 months ago

    sorry for not making this post sooner, I’ve kind of been completely absent for the past 3+ months

    • Franzia
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      94 months ago

      Mossy your presence is very well appreciated, sporadic as it may be.

      • MossOPM
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        64 months ago

        thank you. I really appreciate it

    • @UnrepententProcrastinator@lemmy.ca
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      4 months ago

      Whatever’s left after Israel is done with its sanctioned genocide. Just to be clear by Israel I refer to Natanyau and his goons. Wether he represents the people of Israel is very debatable but not as much as Hamas which isn’t democratic like at all and doesn’t represent the Palestinians at all.

  • Another Catgirl
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    284 months ago

    if an average 196 community member stands among Palestinians, in Palestine, obeying Palestinian laws, how long would they last?

    • katy ✨
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      634 months ago

      israel would probably bomb their home so not too long

    • @Catoblepas
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      564 months ago

      I don’t decide whether or not bombing children is moral based on how their parents feel about me. 🤷‍♂️

    • @barsoap@lemm.ee
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      4 months ago

      Palestinians are quite liberal and progressive compared to other Arabs, and being gay is legal in the West Bank – that doesn’t mean that there’s no issues, this article about a planned LGBT youth camp gives a good impression. There’s allies, but keep your head down and out of sight of religious nutjobs. It’s pretty much the same thing atheists do over there: Plenty of them around with all that secular history but the religious nutjobs are simply too rabid to allow public discourse about the topic. It’s way easier to go the “secular Muslim” route: Fast, but not for Allah.

      In Gaza the legal situation is undetermined (scholars disagree on whether British mandate law prohibiting gay sex still applies) but anyway Hamas is in power, they instituted a religious police, tried to enforce headscarfs, go after male hairdressers cutting women’s hairs without any legal basis etc. don’t look at the statute book Hamas doesn’t care and they’re crazy. Also you don’t want to go to Gaza right now. Also, you probably can’t even if you’re an UN aid worker.

    • If an average person is constantly subjected to food insecurity, lacking access to clean water and sanitation, lacking medical treatment, random injury and death through constant bombings, random injury and death of relatives and friends through constant bombings and limited access to education and working opportunities, how likely are they able to concern themselves with social progress?

      If we look at western countries, social progress came in times of relative safety and wealth for the broad population, while reactionary politics came in times, where these were lowered or cut. It is no coincidence that reactionary politicians combine economic hardship for the masses with scapegoating and fighting against minorities.

      The way to progressive politics in Gaza is paved with working infrastructure, proper access to basic needs and a perspective for social and personal development.

    • @stembolts@programming.dev
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      204 months ago

      I’m not sure if you are attempting a platitude or are making a point, but to make a point your logic should be sound.

      Your logic is that if an average first world person cannot live in a place comfortably, then you have an unstated implication that they should not receive support against death. Please correct if you were implying something else, would have been easier to know if you had spoken less vaguely.

      Nonetheless regarding said “logic”, (TLDR it’s not logical) I don’t see the logical connection between the tourism experience of visiting a country under siege and how that determines whether the residents of that country should be exterminated.

      If you were making a point, could you elaborate on this connection? If however you were attempting a platitude, no explanation needed, you succeeded.

        • katy ✨
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          64 months ago

          so doesn’t the us

            • katy ✨
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              54 months ago

              texas, florida, ohio, and utah would like a word

                • @Catoblepas
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                  44 months ago

                  Those states are making conditions intolerable for trans people in the hopes that they either kill themselves or flee. I personally know trans people who moved across the country within the past year because of the uncertainty over whether it would even be legal for them to piss in a public restroom, or whether they would have access to medication necessary to keep them mentally healthy. I fled nearly 20 years ago because I saw the writing on the wall.

                  That’s not even discussing the stochastic terrorism that has made drag flat out dangerous, as in “your gay bar in Brooklyn will get burned down” dangerous. That’s not a hypothetical, it happened less than a year ago.

        • @zbyte64
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          4 months ago

          I didn’t realize we were bombing them into being tolerant, before we used to do it to make them a democracy.

        • @Catoblepas
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          34 months ago

          Is that relevant?

          If it is, I guess we could all take a minute and talk about how Israel has such a problem controlling violent homophobic religious extremists that Jerusalem Pride has needed a ratio of 1 armed guard for every 6 marchers.

            • @Catoblepas
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              34 months ago

              Do you feel that needing 1 armed guard for every 6 marchers is indicative that it is incredibly safe to be out as queer in Jerusalem?

                • @Catoblepas
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                  4 months ago

                  Why are the armed guards needed?

                  Who are they being protected from?

        • @stembolts@programming.dev
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          4 months ago

          Ah great, well thank you for the explanation regarding their implication. That is helpful.

          Do you happen to also understand if their position is logical, or is your meaning then, “They murder, so we must murder them, so that all of the murderers have been murdered.”

          (Please correct the above if I am misunderstanding)

          Because there is a bit of a problem with that sentiment as well.

          I’m not stating that you take this position, so do not take this next statement as targeted at you, rather it is targeted at those who may hold the above sentiment. That is, progress is rarely generated from the barrel of a gun. Then we live in a world where B’s hate against A is justified, because A hates B. This is a perpetual cycle of endless violence and war, that is the end result of this type of thinking, and why these comments are so negative because a lot of us have lived long enough to see this cycle, every day, it does not end through bloodshed.

          • @Ilovethebomb@lemm.ee
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            24 months ago

            They make a valid point, that most of the residents of Gaza despise the rainbow community, and many of them would physically harm them given the chance.

            With this in mind, it’s quite bizarre that a Lemmy community built around the rainbow community is formally in support of them. I personally think the best thing to do in this situation would have been to stay out of it.

            • @Catoblepas
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              54 months ago

              Plenty of people in the rural southern Appalachian county I grew up in would and did physically harm me when given the chance. Am I supposed to be okay with bombing their kids and hospitals now or something?

              I think the best thing to do in this situation is not bomb hospitals and children. 🤷‍♂️

        • @CommanderCloon@lemmy.ml
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          23 months ago

          Israel murders those gay people too, as well as their families and friends. The answer to homophobia just isn’t genocide 🤷

    • @zbyte64
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      194 months ago

      With all that dysentery, lack of food, shelter, constant threat of getting blown up? Ehh maybe 2 days cuz I’m twice as old as the average person there.

      • @Ilovethebomb@lemm.ee
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        74 months ago

        Polar bears will treat you the same regardless of what colour, gender, or sexuality you are, to be fair.

    • Mario_Dies.wav
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      124 months ago

      IMO that’s not very pertinent since we have the privilege of not being in that situation. Here’s a quote from something I read that might help reconcile this:

      If we understand this sense of negative and positive freedom, what appears as a contradictory stance within anarchism makes perfect sense. An anarchist might firmly believe that the Palestinian people deserve to be liberated from occupation, even if that means that they set up their own state. That same anarchist might also firmly believe that a Palestinian state, like all states, should be opposed in favor of nonstatist institutions. A complete sense of freedom would always include both the negative and positive senses—in this case, liberation from occupation and simultaneously the freedom to self-determine. Otherwise, as both actually existing Communist and liberal regimes have demonstrated, “freedom from” on its own will serve merely to enslave human potentiality, and at its most extreme, humans themselves; self-governance is denied in favor of a few governing over others. And “freedom to,” on its own, as capitalism has shown, will serve merely to promote egotistic individualism and pit each against each; self-determination trumps notions of collective good. Constantly working to bring both liberation and freedom to the table, within moments of resistance and reconstruction, is part of that same juggling act of approximating an increasingly differentiated yet more harmonious world.

      -Cindy Milstein, Anarchism and Its Aspirations (2010)

      This is something I just happened to read, but we’ve been discussing Palestine a lot in my discord server. If anyone would like links to some more readings about Palestine and why things are the way they are, I have a lot of links to free ebooks I’d be happy to share (freely accessible, non-pirated). I’m not sure it would be appropriate to post them here, and I lack the mental bandwidth to deal with the possibility of sea lions and other bad-faith responders, but I’d be happy to share the links in a DM.

    • MossOPM
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      334 months ago

      I’m sorry but Hamas is almost completely annihilated at this point. in addition, they do not represent the Palestinian people. I do not condone terrorist attacks, but once a nation has killed 20-fold greater numbers of people, and is currently razing the entire nation (who at this point has little to no military) innocent lives and all into dust it becomes a lot easier to pick a side.

        • NoneOfUrBusiness
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          144 months ago

          So the other side will keep exploding the first side violently until the hostages are back.

          It’s not about the hostages. Otherwise they would stop bombing Gaza and actually use diplomacy to get them back instead of blowing them up.

          • @stratosfear@lemmy.sdf.org
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            84 months ago

            Not to mention releasing hostages will not in any way change the status quo. When someone has held their boot on your neck for decades what incentive do you have to give them anything? Absolutely fuck terrorists but Israel’s treatment and process going back a long time has created this very situation. They have the power so they must be the ones to acquiesce. But typical rightwing fuckoffs running that place of course don’t want to acknowledge this simple aspect of power balance.

    • MossOPM
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      554 months ago

      what the fuck does that even mean

      • @zbyte64
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        174 months ago

        Feed it Marx and Vaush clips and have it make 196 memes

        • MossOPM
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          84 months ago

          that sounds like no joke the worst thing ever

          • @zbyte64
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            44 months ago

            With a bar that low, it would be easy to improve. Would throwing in books by Ayn Rand make the situation better?

      • @Sanctus@lemmy.world
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        4 months ago

        Sorry I picked you at random to reply to. Revisiting this comment with a sober mind, I have no idea what I was talking about. Maybe create a bot that identifies the top 400 riches people in the world and spends its existance phishing and scamming them at a rate no human can do? The idea sat better when I couldn’t think it through.