‘Morale is at an all-time low’: Ex-Googler writes scathing latter slamming layoffs and ‘eroded’ culture::An ex-Googler wrote a 1,500-word letter criticizing the firm and CEO Sundar Pichai’s lack of “visionary leadership.”
Is anyone surprised? Brilliant engineers going to work at Google expecting to work on world changing software and instead work on selling more ads.
How miserable.
Selling more ads can actually be engaging to work on even if it’s not world changing, if you’re given things you actually need to think through
Unfortunately I can’t really see Google being the type of place that lets people think for themselves, they’re far too busy trying to please the shareholders for that
Oh agreed, the scale and performances requirements to serve ads on the modern internet is a really challenging problem.
My point was simply that these brilliant minds are being wasted on this objective.
Ugh I’d feel so fucking gross is I somehow contributed to the proliferation of MORE advertising in our world. Like talk about an absolute waste of your talent and contribution to the world.
Laying there on your deathbed someday and looking back on what you did in the time you were given…and it was making more ads, like how disgusted I feel about it all.
Frankly at that pay grade in that industry you’re either going to work for a company that makes money selling ads/data, in high frequency trading or a hedge fund, and the latter two are objectively more parasitical - at least content creators and media publishers get a cut from ads, rather than all the money either staying in the company or going to their competitors, with the only instance of their business affecting normal people being when they crash the economy
The single worst decision they made was rolling back the 20% of work time being dedicated to side projects. That’s where all their good early ideas came from. It was replaced by politics instead.
“Decisions went from being made for the benefit of users, to the benefit of Google, to the benefit of whoever was making the decision,”
That’s a bar.
The googlers i know spend a lot more time than I’d expect on performance reviews. Not really on like… Doing shit. Just reviewing and selling what little is done to get that next pay bump.
These recent months it seems the reviewing and selling, the hype-mongering, is more about remaining employed than it is a pay bump.
It’s a sad state of affairs when the inexperienced code-olympiads you hire need to transition partially from devs-as-engineers to introverts-as-showmen. It’s like they hired apples, made them work like oranges, and now only keep the ones who can also be dolphins.
Haha good analogy. The “remaining employed” is a point i missed. Broad layoffs in my company would probably make me do the same i suppose.
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I am probably the perfect google customer. I used google search when it still had an exclamation point. I got my gmail account by invite in ‘04. Downloaded chrome on day one. I used nexus/pixel phones almost exclusively
Today, ddg search on Firefox. I am using an iPhone. I still have the gmail account but I am slowly migrating away from it. I am done with google. They don’t produce anything that has any value for me anymore.
Same, but opera/firefox, Zenfone, and proton Mail. Not really a fan of apple either
I’m doing all the same as you
What I’m not moving away from though is Google Maps and Photos. No good alternatives exist
For photos, I have been using Immich, and have been very impressed. It has pretty much all the features I want (automatic backup, chronological timeline, mobile/web app, face tagging, semantic search, albums, sharing, etc). It’s a server you self-host though, so setting it up might be a pain if you’ve never done something like that before.
This looks good as a self hosted option, but I want something hosted.
Pay for a cloud server and install it? There’s a hosted option 😀
Lol I’ve been a software developer for 20 years, I’m well aware of what it takes to maintain a server. Which is exactly why I would rather pay someone else to do it
Amazon photos?
This is super neat
About Maps, same here. Even looked into paid alternatives, and… There’s not really much of value. I’m disappointed.
Ente? Just started subscribing though… seems good. 99c for base plan is pretty attractive.
Looks promising, I’ll keep my eye on it, might give it a go with some photos to test it out. I wish it weren’t e2e encrypted though, I actually like a lot of the features Google provides (tagging/grouping by feature, looking back, etc)
What are you switching to for email?
I moved to proton mail personally after having Gmail since forever.
Took a year and I pay 40usd per year but worth it
How safe / stable is proton mail? Say they go under in 5 years are you just fucked? Or is your setup such that you could move easily? Also is your email just xxxx@proton.com? Or something longer?
I don’t have a crystal ball but Proton is the go-to, privacy-focused email provider. They are based in Switzerland.
They likely have a way for you to export your emails if they go under or use a desktop email client to archive them.
It’s less the backup more all the stuff linked to your account. All the sign-ups if they go down fast… You’re fucked 😕
I pay for LastPass and would never go back. I know there are other options that people will point out but I’m too invested now haha.
I highly recommend getting LastPass or something similar. It was much easier to make the transition away from google products
Close, it’s proton.me
Or @pm.me, even shorter
Woah, didn’t know that one. Thank you.
I have my own domain. So I’d lose my emails but I could just move the address. I’d recommend that for sure. In case you want to move to another mail provider down the line it’s super simple.
I think it’s a bit extra to have a custom domain but it’s super worth it.
I’m exactly in the same boat, been considering migrating to protonmail. Have moved everything else to alternatives except gmail.
Slowly working on hosting my own. Stuff like this is not fast for me since I am a hobbyist and not in tech professionally. But, I’m getting there.
I just switched to getting my own domain and hosting it as a bundle with the domain provider. The Web client sucks, but I use thunderbird anyways.
That is a better idea than me foolishly trying to get all of it running out of my basement. So many little things that lead to other little things. Right now, my “ditch gmail” project is a build my own router with openwrt project.
Fuggen rabbit holes man.
You can start one on a cloud hosting service tomorrow, and then if at some point you want to move to “on premises” hosting (as in, a Raspberry Pi in your basement) then you can migrate over easily enough. That’s the whole point of self-hosting; all of the data is yours to manipulate and move around as much as you like.
I would not recommend self hosting at all. The bigger providers usually don’t even accept mail from unknown servers/domains.
Same. I have my name as my gmail and get an absurd amount of missent emails.
Hey twin!!
Sundar Pichai has got to be the worst CEO in the silicon valley period
Google has managed to produce next to nothing of value with a dreamteam of engineers the likes of which no one else had access to
From one uninspired leadership decision to the next they’ve just been sitting there bolstering what’s already there while every once in a while adding a new product to the Google graveyard
Google is one of the most engineer driven companies out there. Their engineers are simply massively overrated. A ton of leetcoder kiddies got into FAANG companies over the years and a lot of them are just plain shit as professional developers.
Edit: also the way they evaluate engineers drives them to create half-baked products that get abandoned. It’s incredible how they still haven’t figured out that people want stable, maintained products, not “innovation” that doesn’t actually help anyone and never turns into a finished product.
Their hiring process is the reason why leetcoder kiddies get in there in the first place. 3 seperate coding rounds with questions not even related to the domain that you need to solve in a timer of 45 mins.
Yep. And they also used to do the stupid brain teaser stuff back in the day. That’s what happens when you hire out of touch PhDs to design your hiring process instead of people with real world experience.
Nah this one is on the business bros who networked their way through an mba without learning anything.
Nope, Google hired a bunch of PhDs to design their hiring process years ago.
This has long been my impression. It’s a plaything for the “elite” engineers aka former children of wealthy people who grew up with tutors but never developed as people.
IRTc innovation, I’ve also long felt this way. There are so many good products out there but most seem like the software equivalent of As Seen on TV plastic crap that solves some problem that nobody has.
They did produce something of value, Stadia, but instead of investing in it further with some exclusive games to show off its capabilities and lure more people and developers in … or just outright signing a deal to paying for the development cost to port some hits or Call of Duty to Stadia, they wrote it off, refunded everything, and shut it down.
It’s a major fail, they tried next to nothing to fix their messaging issues, failed to invest in areas that would’ve made a difference, and didn’t stick with it to challenge people’s beliefs that Stadia was going to be shut down.
They should’ve:
- Made a guarantee that if they shut down within the next 10 years, every game you play will be refunded in full.
- Did a hardware upgrade to bring Stadia past consoles.
- Never shut down their in house studios and invested even more into bringing other studios in.
- Really upsold the cheat free experience (with no client side anticheat spyware necessary) and the ability for the platform to make even the games with the worst netcode stable multiplayer experiences.
- Made something like steam workshop for Stadia and worked with at least one developer to prove that it works (they said they were open to mods, but they needed developers to take interest)
- Potentially resolved the “you have to buy all your games again” concern by offering to buy everything on the platform in your steam, xbox, or PlayStation library 1 time (so you couldn’t “import” multiple times or buy new games on another platform and then import them for free).
Imagine if people literally just pressed a few buttons on their old gaming computer and suddenly could play a bunch of their steam library in the cloud with better graphics for free on any device they wanted. I can’t imagine folks wouldn’t have stuck around with that kind of a deal.
Made a guarantee that if they shut down within the next 10 years, every game you play will be refunded in full.
This would have given people confidence, but really doesn’t reflect on Google as a whole, and just reinforces that they as a company will kill things at a moment’s notice.
I think in addition to all your points, they could have distanced Stadia from Google, and announced a new gaming company under the Alphabet umbrella. The hardware bundles they were selling with Chromecasts probably wouldn’t have been a thing, but I’m not sure if that would have been a bad thing. Having stadia as a completely separate entity from Google may have given it the breathing room it needed to get a good user base, without the stigma of google killing products.
This would have given people confidence, but really doesn’t reflect on Google as a whole, and just reinforces that they as a company will kill things at a moment’s notice.
I’ve typed up several replies to this but really, I think this is completely meaningless statement. It’s a hypothetical example, and regardless of how it “reflects on Google”, it would’ve addressed the concern and proved they were in it for the long-haul. Perception is reality and the perception of many was that Google is flaky.
You don’t fix perception by pretending perception issues don’t exist, you take actions that prove those perception issues either never were or no longer are valid concerns. Google making a promise like this would’ve worked towards that goal.
I think in addition to all your points, they could have distanced Stadia from Google, and announced a new gaming company under the Alphabet umbrella. The hardware bundles they were selling with Chromecasts probably wouldn’t have been a thing, but I’m not sure if that would have been a bad thing. Having stadia as a completely separate entity from Google may have given it the breathing room it needed to get a good user base, without the stigma of google killing products.
Maybe; ultimately I don’t think this would’ve mattered much. Google is Alphabet’s software tech company and YouTube integration and general Google Ecosystem integration were selling points. If they ever properly leveraged having the Google Assistant integrate into games (like they posed) that would’ve been a really cool feature.
I mean it tooks Stadia like 3 years to get a search bar. It screamed of a promising product that had a rocky launch, and rather than investing in it (ala No Man’s Sky) they reduced it to a skeleton crew and went all shocked pikachu when that didn’t result in something gamers embraced.
As a counter-point, what new services or products have any of the FAANG companies released that the average person uses, over the last few years?
Big tech was built on a handful of runaway successes, and building on moonshot ideas, allowing engineers to work on “the next big thing” without fear of liability.
Now, if it doesn’t work, you get laid off. At least if you worked for a startup, you’d get enough equity to make a ton of money if it works out…
Pichal is shit, but so are Zuck, Tim Cook, Andy Jassy, and the two at the helm at Netflix.
Facebook: messenger for kids, which is messenger but with good parental controls. Believe me as a parent I want more products to look at this.
Also Threads. Jury’s still out if it wins but it’s a good product.
Netflix buying the long tail of excellent old Android Indie Games to offer as a platform benefit is a fun idea, jury’s still out on that one too.
But imho the one that’s winning at product development isn’t faang, it’s Microsoft.
You mean MAANA? I genuinely don’t know why Netflix is included, it should just be MAAA…
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Also Microsoft should really be in there somewhere.
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Yup, he’s the absolute worst. I can’t think of a single product that Google has even improved during his tenure as CEO… let alone a product that he successfully launched on his own. All he can do is make existing products more expensive.
Look at how he completely lost his shit when chatgpt was released - probably a huge part of the reason he lost it is cause he realized he’d have to actually do something useful instead of just squeezing more blood from the collective stone of all Google’s existing products. His claim to fame is creating Chrome. What fucking good is that? Web browsers have existed since the time he was born. There’s nothing to innovate there, and there never has been. It’s clear: he’s not an innovator.
Whoever takes over after he’s gone is going to be in for a hell of a time. The only thing he’s created for Google is a shit-ton of anti-trust lawsuits. The company is an empty husk at this point. There’s nothing left for them to become.
Has he increased short term profitability?
Google became Apple
Was GO made during Pichai’s tenure? I don’t use GO but apparently they got the guy who wrote C on it so…?
No, Go dates back to when Eric Schmidt was running things.
LoL no shit. You don’t even need to be an employee to figure this out. Even as a customer I feel that way. I’m looking to leave Google altogether.
I went to modify my 2018 Google Wi-Fi router to add a simple port forwarding rule, and the functionality is completely GONE from their already shitty Google Home app. It used to be so easy and simple on the old Wi-Fi app. I’m never buying another Google device.
This company has reached enshittification nirvana.
Google home has become an absolute shit show. It has awful UI and UX. Truly an amazing feat.
Worse is that they can’t even do things like set timers anymore.
Yeah how tf do you become feature poorer (even with the basics) as your product matures and you spend billions acquiring your competition? Oh yeah…let me click on the original news article on this post for the answer.
It’s still there for me in “Advanced networking”->“Port Management”.
If you click into mine, all you see are two options both of which only serve to allow Google to Hoover more of your data.
Looking into this more a couple days ago, it seemed that without IP reservations, you can’t get the port forwarding option to appear. Which I haven’t messed with. On principal I refuse to deal with a router that has regressed in functionality and am instead dedicating my time to de-Google my life haha. I bought an openwrt compatible router this weekend.
I do have a bunch of IP reservations. I don’t really know how you’d do port forwarding without subs static IP address to forward to. I have not seen any of the data sharing options, but it could be that I gave those permissions years ago and forgot…
IIRC the Google Wi-Fi app had some extremely simple selection process in the port forwarding that allowed you to review the device list with IPs and select for port forwarding. The app would then carry the pf rule regardless of DHCP. Seems very simple functionality that now requires multiple steps to achieve. I’m sure in the product management meetings they assumed the new Nest users were too dumb to handle such logic or just overlooked the functionality in general to speed the migration from Google Wi-Fi to Google Home. Seems like a great mini case study for poor product management.
Ah, you’re right. It does work with dynamic addresses.
It works like this for me, currently:
Gotcha, maybe it’s the fact I’m running iOS, I can’t get any type of rule or DHCP assignment options to show up. Just the same two options for telemetry and Nest. Oh well, thanks for the help. I’m getting my new router Tuesday and should be off to the races!
I’ve switched to Kagi for search, and Fastmail for email. Though a bit more difficult to escape Google when you’ve got a pixel 8 pro ;)
Let me introduce you to graphene os :)
Whaaaat, it’s supported now? It wasn’t for a bit. (Or maybe I’m thinking of Lineage) Man, I may have to make the jump soon, or at least just test it out. It’s been a while since I’ve played with a custom ROM though, since the pixels are a great vanilla experience.
It’s super easy to install graphene. They even have a web installer.
Rather easier I’d say, as it has an unlockable bootloader, unlike most other phones. I have a pixel 7 on Graphene, but there’s a bunch of other versions you can try.
Only the google edition, not carrier versions.
If you have a pixel phone, there are completely de-Googled android operating systems available for them with full hardware support.
Actually, it’s easiest to escape google with a Pixel, even more than an iPhone with GrapheneOS (only if not a carrier phone though).
I left Google 5-6 years ago. I do occasionally use YouTube, but that’s about it.
It’s surprisingly easy to get used to once you do it.
What did you do about email?
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I’m not the same person but I jumped ship from Gmail to Outlook (when that big rebrand launched a decade ago) and a few years ago to Fastmail.
It doesn’t hold a candle to ProtonMail’s privacy and security but I found it handy since it’s a complete mail, contacts, calendar solution with syncing via standards and a large number of available aliases. And since I pay, I’m the customer.
Good options exist now, including proton and skiff. Recommend checking out skiff. Everyone knows proton.
Skiff gives you 10GB free. Proton only gives 500MB.
That said we should be paying for email. If you don’t, you wind up with Gmail, where they read and analyze the contents of your email to build a profile on you and serve you ads. Moment I noped out of Gmail was when I realized they were aggregating sales receipts in my inbox and tracking the products I was buying. Wow, when did I ever agree to that? Guess it was time move on.
I’ve switched to duck duck go and I’m working on leaving Gmail, but damn it’s taking a while to update my email address everywhere, hoping after couple of months I won’t have any Google products left in my name.
Yeah I’ve been using Gmail and Google Drive since the early 2000’s. I have a lot of stuff on there. All my life photos, a whole lot of documents and almost my entire adult life in emails.
It’s going to be a very long and complicated process.
I would disagree and say that Pichai is a visionary, in turning Google into a monopolistic dystopian megacorporation.
Yep, layoffs tend to hurt culture and trust.
Some companies seem to thrive on regular culls in the name of operational efficiencies. All that happens is talent leaves the organisation and then those left behind struggle because expertise has gone.
It erodes good will and good will is something you can’t win back.
By the time things look like they are normalising, in comes another cull!
and then those left behind struggle because expertise has gone.
Or leave themselves because trust is gone
They become quiet quitters. Barely putting any effort in and doing the bare minimum.
Folks are not going to bail out company decisions to cull by working extra harder.
They tidy CV and look for next opportunity.
Layoffs while at the same time handing the CEO $200 million for a single year.
Yep, that will definitely help employee morale.
Yeah Google kind of sucks now and everyone paying attention knows. They kill a lot of products and don’t really make anything new and good.
Their search returns too many ads and SEO garbage sites.
They can’t unify on messaging. Talk, hangouts, allo, duo, meet… Just pick one. But I guess that doesn’t look as good on someone’s resume.
Frustrating part is how G+ coulda gone somewhere if they’d not been dumbasses rolling it out
Literally even the circles feature would have been so great
It’s been a long time brewing with how Google manages projects and people, and Sundar is just the dipshit who’s been helming it. Google needs a rethink, because once the ad market collapses (and it will collapse, they’re helping it along with their crusade against YouTube) they will be rudderless and moneyless.
I really wish I was motivated to finish my transition off Google because right now, storage and email are the two things left to address. And without funding, I can’t keep investing in NAS storage, or be bothered to move off Gmail for a new email vendor (which has its own problems with any non-Google email sinking into someone’s XBL).
What are you paying for Google storage that it’s cheaper than NAS storage?
Maybe they’re still on a G Suite Business / Workspace with the storage quota exceeded. Until earlier this year, Google didn’t do anything about exceeded quotas, and many had more than the included 5TB stored in their drive. I’ve seen people who had 100s of TB! I myself “only” have ~25TB, which I’m finally downloading to my local storage these days. When Google began caring about the storage quotas, they froze all accounts with exceeded quotas, blocking any new uploads – but if you keep paying the subscription (~20€), they’ll retain the frozen files for an extended time period of a year or two (don’t remember) after they gave the first notice.
I recently transferred all my accounts away from google, to my own domain. Took an insane amount of time, but well worth it
google owns youtube bro. you mean crusade against adblockers on youtube i suppose
The letter is a post on his own blog . Hard to distill into a summary so I recommend reading it get more context. But it seems to have boiled down to:
-
How It Was:
- Strong adherence to the “don’t be evil” ethos, focusing on societal good over profits.
- Open, transparent communication and decision-making processes.
- High morale, with a culture of learning from successes and failures.
- Work focused on benefitting the web and users, rather than Google’s immediate interests.
- Collaboration and lack of internal silos, encouraging innovation and autonomy.
-
How It Is Now:
- Shift from user-centric to Google-centric, and then to individual-centric decision making.
- Eroded transparency and increase in organizational silos.
- Decline in morale and a culture of distrust between employees and management.
- Focus on short-term financial gains leading to layoffs and defensive employee behavior.
- Lack of clear vision and leadership, resulting in confused and ineffective management.
- Overall deterioration of Google’s unique, innovative culture and values.
-
I’m sure the MBA’s will starting taking the opinions of the worker bees seriously any day now. /s
This is the best summary I could come up with:
An ex-Google employee has published a highly critical letter attacking the firm’s “eroded” culture and accusing CEO Sundar Pichai of lacking “visionary leadership.”
Posting on his blog, Hickson said he was “very lucky” to have experienced the early days of the company, where executives were candid with staff and ambitious experimentation was encouraged — but said the search giant’s culture had since “deteriorated.”
And he is far from the first employee who has criticized the company’s increasing bureaucracy since founders Larry Page and Sergey Brin stepped away.
Since then it has been making smaller, quieter cuts across the company, to the point employees are now tracking layoffs in an internal document, Business Insider reported.
BI has previously reported tension between the rank-and-file and managers at Google over, for example, practices around labelling employees as low performers.
Hickson suggests there should be efforts to move power “from the CFO’s office back to someone with a clear long-term vision for how to use Google’s extensive resources to deliver value to users.”
The original article contains 580 words, the summary contains 169 words. Saved 71%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
No shit that moral too is all time low
The fuck is a Googler?
It’s a grown up Noogler.
Google employee
The fuck is a scathing latter?
That will happen when the market is in the shitter
Imagine thinking the issue is some imaginary concept like “the market”, rather than 20 years of poor leadership.
Imagine thinking “the market” is an imaginary concept that doesn’t influence your business 🤦
Considering my higher education on the subject, I’ll take my chances with that.
OMG dude, you’re embarrassing yourself…just put down the shovel.
He’s embarassing himself? 😂
Is there an echo in here?
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Time to take you pills and go to sleep.
Employer can still make good decisions with the market in the shitter.
But that would cost them.
Oh no, those poor poor billionaires. Whatever shall they do?
What?
Monopolies don’t need to create value for the user to keep their leadership
If the market wasn’t fucked they wouldn’t need to have good leadership, they’d do it or die
The market is not fucked though. Google is massively profitable and had 11% growth this quarter, which tracks with their 11% increase in revenue YOY
So the employees can’t be negatively affected by the state of their workplace unless the goddamn market is fucked?
How dumb can you possibly be?
Not dumb enough to get mad about things no one said.
You see the problem here is that lives are not disposable. Taking all the risks and making the people suffer the consequences is really shitty. I if they instead focused on steady growth rather than giant leaps, nobody would get laid off. Layoffs are a sign of incompetence from leadership
