cross-posted from: https://programming.dev/post/35140490
Long post
I’m a nurse working ER. I’m also introverted and like keeping to myself. I also may be on the spectrum (haven’t been diagnosed, but I find social cues and when people are being sincere, joking or lying very difficult to understand. I understand what people say literally. Why would they otherwise speak?)
I also separate my job from my personal life, as my job is not my identity. I don’t care about my coworkers’ life but ask the ones who know more than me about anything job related, to learn, to be a better nurse, to have more opportunities.
Today I had a conversation with 2 managers where I was fired. Not from the hospital due to my union but from the ER. In a nutshell, as they put it: they (whoever they might be) see that I’m motivated and want to learn but they find my way of speaking demanding.
I have absolutely no idea what they mean. They didn’t provide any example. They however provided an example where somebody claims I told a student to put a line. I never did such a thing, but I have the feeling they don’t believe me. The never put anything on writing, or gave me anything to sign. I won’t be signing anything from them.
Then one of the managers started a monologue about he’s been working 30 years there, that communication is important. True, communication here is extremely relevant, but about procedures, patients and who does what, not about why Americans are idiots or how many children you have, not to the point of ignoring alarms, not to the point where I am the only one entering patient’s data in the computer while my coworkers speak about what to cook for dinner. Oftentimes I was the only one noticing how we’re under supplied or that some ECG cables don’t work while the chatty ones did they thing and ignored I was working while they lazy around.
I didn’t get to say all of this because they interrupted. It’s like they believe the talkative ones over me. Why would I want to work for people like that?
After this both sides talked but didn’t listen to what the other side had to say. I felt they weren’t listening to me. Why should I listen to them?
Before I left I told them I’m looking for a unit where I can learn. That’s ALL I need from the workplace to be better. To them this is not good enough.
To me it looks like this: you don’t mingle with us (us being coworkers and management), therefore you are worse than us and deserve to be ignored, but I’m not at a workplace to socialize, but to learn and to earn money. Am I the only person on earth to think like this? Why can’t people keep their opinions to themselves? I leave them alone and only talk about work. If I have nothing to say, I say nothing and learn. I don’t understand why people are so needy for conversation and thin skinned. I didn’t say this out loud because in my past people have bullied me for being me.
I was also accused of not being polite.
I’ll miss working that ER because in the 8 weeks I was there I learned stuff you don’t learn on other units. To me this unit was a good one because I learned new things and people left me alone during downtime to figure out how procedures and machines work, people didn’t complain when I looked the internet for instruction manuals or asked coworkers if we give sodium bicarbonate by metabolic acidosis or alkalosis. I was an motivated coworker, even when people who were supposed to train me sat and did nothing while I was taking samples. I always asked what I didn’t know.
I’ll also miss working with most doctors, because they were always ready to teach me stuff, so I really don’t understand why managers say my way of speaking is demanding.
My managers don’t see or don’t want to see that people treat you better and forgive your mistakes if you give them attention, if you’re likable. I’m not likable. They also don’t see that they say a lot of stupid crap if a coworker prefers to keep to himself. I also find this sad. I feel they think I’m doing this on purpose.
If you’re an extrovert and have read so far: I don’t think you understand how taxing is to care about things that are simply, irrelevant. It’s like my managers expect me to make theatrics and give attention to everyone I work with. I already did this on a previous job and it was ridiculous: fake smiling to a secretary and asking her stupid stuff for 5 minutes straight, smiling like a clown because otherwise she would feel offended. Why is that my job? Sometimes I work with 8 coworkers. Am I supposed to be a sucker with all of them? I find that childish.
I feel they presented an ultimatum: either give us and coworkers attention or be fired. I didn’t bulge because they didn’t listen.
And I still don’t know if this is a good outcome, because I’m not going to change what I am to conform to some extroverted standards of what a good coworkers is supposed to be, because I can’t and I don’t understand them (extroverts).
I don’t know if this puts me on the spectrum and I find it unfair being treated so differently because I like to keep to myself and learn during downtime.
I’ve always have such issues working for other employers. It’s clear this is who I am and trying to change me it’s like expecting a gay to like women.
But if this means I’m alone in the universe, that I’m always the loner people always talk shit about and marginalize, how am I supposed to live my life and work life then?
ETA: I inquired the union about protections for people on the spectrum and I’m waiting for an answer but even if I get a diagnosis I don’t want to expose myself to more bullying by disclosing it to my employer: the hospital I work at is full of gossips.
So what do I do?
multiple studies on children have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that neurotypical people will always unconsciously ostracize neurodivergent people and my experience tells me that it’s because i trigger some sort of insecurity in the person that wants to blame/avoid/harass me for whatever insecurity is going on in their head.
i’ve learned the hard way that there’s nothing i can do to make neurotypical people act professionally or even humanely towards me and i’ve also learned from my other minority identities that i have to develop my own methods for dealing with society at large that allows me to keep my sanity intact.
the first step is to understand where on the spectrum you exist (assuming that you are on the spectrum) and from there you can start creating your own coping mechanisms and the ONLY way to do that is through professional help with a psychologist; NOT a psychiatrist (pills/drugs are usually only a partial answer).
if you are on the spectrum (and it sounds like you are based on what you’ve shared), this is a very fundamental part of your being and anything that you try to build for yourself on top of it is on shakey ground without this fundamental understanding. there is no single answer or single method for responding to your question/request-for-help because every neurodiverse person is different; that’s why it’s called a spectrum and this is the only answer i can give you that will help.
in my case: i have to pay for advice from employment lawyers on how to best protect myself in every single job that i’ve ever had since being diagnosed. i just joined a union for the first time and the legal advice that i got this time around suggested that i have a better chance at keeping my job this time because of it, but ONLY if i take certain actions and keeping documented proof that i informed my employer & my union of my autism was part of it. i was told that i should expect to provide legal proof my diagnosis should i ever have to fight back (i ALWAYS have to fight back eventually) and that diagnosis from my psychologist is the only proof that will work. you will likely need this too.
I have nothing to write but thank your for posting. You seem to have more knowledge about this than me.
it’s not knowledge, it’s anecdotal experience that i’ve cobbled together into a theory, based on my ruminations of my regrets and tempered by consultations w multiple psychologists for the last few decades.
i’m glad you responded because it allowed me to see the responses that you’re getting from others and it gives me the chance share another regret that i experienced the hard way: neurotypical people do not understand and will NEVER understand unless they’ve trained to do so (and even then it’s still not a guarantee that they can help).
i don’t doubt that they have good intentions, but the road to hell is paved w good intentions. only knowledge and practice can help you if you’re truly on the spectrum.
I just fake it … forever (there is no “make it”). I watch and try and adapt, and try and limit my interaction with people that are not people I don’t feel like I can blend with, like social camouflage.
Most important, and why I hit the reply to begin with is, you are not alone! Not sure where you live, but I’m the US (at least for now) HR or whoever can’t legally put your medical/mental health info on full blast to everyone you work with.
I’m sorry this is happening to you. I remember some of your previous posts: is it fair to say this balance of social interactions at work is something that has been a challenge for you for a while?
I don’t have any great insight to help you, but I think in any job it is going to be an advantage to have a good working relationship with the people around you. Doesn’t mean you need to give up a lot of personal info, but just a smile and little bit of chitchat to warm up to the social interaction. It might seem irrelevant to you, and it’s hard work for you whereas it comes easily to some other people, but if you can find some way to engage a bit I think it would make your work life easier.
The other thing is, it may not be fair the way they’re treating you, and that might be something worth fighting to change (or getting someone to fight on your behalf), but that can be a long and difficult process. In the short term, I would focus on what you have control over: ie do you need to start looking for a different type of job? Start the process of getting a diagnosis? Some kind of CBT or your own effort to try to learn to “play their game” to some extent?
I’m pretty bad at this stuff myself, so could be in talking rubbish here…
Do your best at every other aspect of your job and keep trying to be better socially. Eventually you will build up the skills and knowledgebase to work with confidence
Fake it. Make it an inside joke that you’re not really like that. Masking.
What you need to understand is, it doesn’t matter how hard you work,how much you learn or what you do. If you don’t blend in with your coworkers at least a little bit, you’ll always be the odd one. Depending on who your manager is, that’s enough to get tired.
For a lot of people, for a long time, the surviving mechanism has been social interaction. There are incredibly stupid people out there, doing less work and getting paid more because they know how to fit in the group and form relationships of all sorts. That is a fact. It’s from the hundreds of years we lived as gatherers-hunters where we all had to work together to get food on the table and not die.
You need to realize that you are different. I’ve been like you, struggling to blend in. I still find it hard to show interest in people, because I don’t really care that much, as long as they do their work.
But I’ve learned to at least show some interest. One of the things I am struggling with is that for most people, being together and social seems to give them energy, while it drains my energy.
So I just ask my colleagues how their weekend was and try to relax a little. Which I think you should too.
It’s good that you want to learn and improve, but if you think that leaves no room to talk and be social, you’re too black and white. It feels like you use the job to not focus on colleagues at all, and I have through painful experience learned that most people don’t like that. They want to feel seen, valued.
I’m not saying hang on their every word, I’m saying, the balance right now is ripped too much towards work work work.
There is so much to learn about communicating with people. If you don’t ever speak to them, it’s very hard to predict how they respond to things. How does a colleague react if you ask a favor? How does a colleague react if he/she discovers a mistake you made? If they think you’re a great guy or at least nice but maybe a bit quit, they could talk it over with you. If they think you’re an asshole, they walk straight to the manager.
I think you’re pretty good at your job. Most people like you are. But to succeed you must find a way to be more social, take critism and be aware of the way you communicate and behave towards others and how others will see you because of that.
I have a colleague who also has the habit of telling me what to do in a commanding voice. He doesn’t do it on purpose, in his world that is how it should be, and there is no other way. However, that is generally not acceptable behavior. I would not even accept that from my manager. But the guy often has a point, works hard and has lots of experience and brings solutions that are useful.
However, if he tells it like a dick, nobody cares. Nobody listens. Would you yourself listen to some arrogant prick who thinks he knows best? I won’t. But Steve from accounting, who congratulated me with my birthday yesterday, I like that guy. And when he asks me: "what do you think about doing this or that to solve problems x?’ I’ll give it some thought.
You need to accept that you are different. I am different. But I am an outlier, not the norm. So I found coping mechanisms to navigate the social world at work and with friends. Find yours if you can. It’s not easy, but try it.
Let me know if you have questions, I’d be happy to help.
it doesn’t matter how hard you work,how much you learn or what you do. If you don’t blend in with your coworkers at least a little bit, you’ll always be the odd one. Depending on who your manager is, that’s enough to get tired.
thank you. And now if you excuse me I’m going to get drunk and celebrate. yay!
for most people, being together and social seems to give them energy, while it drains my energy.
and here’s where we are different: you can stand those energy vampires. I cannot. They give me massive headaches.
to succeed you must find a way to be more social, take critism and be aware of the way you communicate and behave towards others and how others will see you because of that.
I find it so hard to fake interest. it’s so sad coworkers treat the office/hospital like a school.
Anyhow, thank you for you insightful post and I don’t know if I may need to ask you something privately in the future
