Lyft is introducing a new feature that lets women and non-binary riders choose a preference to match with drivers of the same gender.

The ride-hailing company said it was a “highly requested feature” in a blog post Tuesday, saying the new feature allows women and non-binary people to “feel that much more confident” in using Lyft and also hopefully encourage more women to sign up to be drivers to access its “flexible earning opportunities.”

The service, called “Women+ Connect,” is rolling out in the coming months. Riders can turn on the option in the Lyft app, however the company warns that it’s not a guarantee that they’ll be matched with a women or non-binary person if one of those people aren’t nearby. Both the riders and drivers will need to opt-in to the feature for it work and riders must chose a gender for it to work.

  • FoundTheVegan@kbin.social
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    1 year ago

    ITT: Men who don’t understand the dangers of living as a woman.

    I’m a passing trans woman. I presented as a man for decades of my life and have lived the last handful as a woman. But the amount of times I’ve been groped, harassed, chased or made to feel worried about my physical safety just for existing in the world has skyrocketed. Truly, I know what it’s like to experience society both ways and without question it is worse for women.

    I’ve had men sit next to me at the theater, put their hand on my knee and try to feel me up. Ive had men smirk as they “accidently” bump in to me at the grocery to squeeze my breasts. I’ve been followed to my car by men asking what I was doing tonight, who then started yelling and only left because I had pepper spray.

    Like, srsly. Every single one of you saying this is discrimination have no clue what it’s like to worry that any interaction with a man you don’t know can quickly turn scary. Getting in to some random guys lyft who will then know where I live, while he has the ability to lock the doors is honestly a super vulnerable position to put yourself in situation.

    Yes, mens wages will be harmed, but women are physically being harmed right now. Tell lyft to pay their drivers an hourly wage like they should anyways and STFU about a safety feature.

      • FoundTheVegan@kbin.social
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        Well, then you are just being willfully ignorant because I already typed out why getting in to a cab is scary. Features like this are going to help women choose what type of situation they are putting themselves in. Say whatever you like about women being to use a gun/knife too, but assault and sexual assaults happen, the average man is stronger than the average woman and being in a confined space with a stranger is putting yourself at risk. Women are at a greater risk then men, so should have greater control how they handle those interactions.

        • Cleverdawny@lemm.ee
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          1 year ago

          Then Lyft should focus on driver quality rather than enabling blatantly illegal sex discrimination.

              • thoro@lemmy.ml
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                Is it illegal to choose your primary care physician based on gender? Maybe I’m not reading this entirely correctly, but why would it be illegal to similarly choose your ride driver by gender?

                Wouldn’t discrimination be more if Lyft refused to hire male drivers or something to that effect according to the civil rights act?

                • Cleverdawny@lemm.ee
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                  1 year ago

                  why would it be illegal to similarly choose your ride driver by gender?

                  Because it’s against the law, as it is written. It isn’t a BFOQ for a taxi driver to be male, female, young, old, of any particular race or religion, so yeah, discrimination on those qualities clearly violated the law.

                  Wouldn’t discrimination be more if Lyft refused to hire male drivers or something to that effect?

                  Preferentially encouraging discrimination against male drivers is still discrimination, even if male drivers are still allowed on the platform.

              • cazsiel@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                I see. It’s not like Lyft isn’t taking on drivers who are men, it just allows women and enby pax the option to set a preference for women and enby drivers.

                It would be interesting to see it argued in court that this constitutes as discrimination.

                • Cleverdawny@lemm.ee
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                  The analogy here is providing an option for a customer at a restaurant to select which race or gender they want serving them. Yes, definitionally, it is discrimination by sex. Especially because no one is given the option to pick a male driver, this will just result in women receiving more ride requests while they’re active and driving.

                  I can’t see how this would be anything but a slam dunk violation of federal law. Lyft is actively and obviously participating in discrimination on the basis of sex by enacting this policy.

                  What they SHOULD be doing is raising driver pay and enacting real protections for their passengers which do NOT violate federal law.

              • subignition@kbin.social
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                1 year ago

                That’s not going to look good in the media cycle. Here’s hoping you don’t find the eventual plaintiff among the bigots in this thread.

        • uberrice@feddit.de
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          Thing is. Nonbinary must be allowed to mean literally anything in the way it currently is defined.

          I am a man, I identity as a man. However, if I were to Identify as Nonbinary, that would need to pass - I might internally and externally be male, but if I say I don’t identify with being male - it’s sexist to deny me the right to identify that way - because identifying that way is not tied to a specific thing you do.

    • darq@kbin.social
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      I think a lot of straight cisgender men think that they understand the anxiety women and visibly LGBT+ people face in these sorts of situations. And maybe they understand it at some academic level. But they really don’t truly grok it, and how it affects people’s lives.

      • Dontfearthereaper123@lemm.ee
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        1 year ago

        I’m a bisexual non binary black person. I do understand the anxiety discriminated groups face, but that’s not an excuse to discriminate even more. We should look at the root causes of the violence and solve those rather than just discriminate even more and just let the issue get worse.

        • darq@kbin.social
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          I mean I agree we should look into the root causes. But practically that is a long-term, society-wide project. We don’t even know what the root causes are, let alone how to address them. And moreover that project is not one a ride-share company can address.

          So we sometimes have to take less-than-ideal, but more practical measures to address the current situation, right?

    • Cynoid@lemm.ee
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      I don’t doubt you had terrible experiences related to sexual harassment, and I’m sorry for you. Nobody deserve this.

      But don’t try to muddle the issue here. You have been attacked by people. And you decided that the pertinent group to understand these attacks is their gender, so we need to differentiate on this basis. You could have analyzed it along education level, wealth, apparent race, apparent religion, social persona, zodiacal type, car brand, profession, haircut, or anything else.

      But you chose to judge the risk level of people based on their gender. Because you think that, for some reason, you have a much clearer perspective than other people you know litterally nothing about but their gender. It is the exact same thing that makes people discriminate others about the color of their skin, or wealth, or any of the illegal type of discrimination. You are using the same logic, and by extension, you are legitimazing it. There’s a reason discrimination laws do a blanket ban of this kind of thing, and not “some genders/races/others are more protected than others” : it’s because every use of every kind of this arbitrary categorization strengthen every other.

      • pastaq@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Cool, now do rape, assault, and sexual harassment like the person you’re responding to was talking about. Your response is tone deaf whataboutism.

      • aesthelete@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Males represented 77% of homicide victims and nearly 90% of offenders.

        In other words, male on male crime. What’s wrong with men’s culture to be causing this problem? 🤔🙄

  • aard@kyu.de
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    This feature also has the potential of endangering those drivers. If I were a driver I’d definitely not opt in to a function like this.

      • frontporchtreat@lemmy.ca
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        1 year ago

        Hey could you take me to this super secluded location I need to go to? I’m just gonna hop in the back behind the drivers seat thx

  • TenderfootGungi@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    What would stop me, a man, from claiming this status and requesting female drivers? While this policy was undoubtably made with good intentions, it is ripe for abuse.

    • Drivebyhaiku@lemmy.world
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      Technically nothing. There is no gatekeeping in being non-binary along the lines of presentation. But you claiming this as a passenger does not effect the other passengers who are made to feel safer by the adoption of this option. A fair number of female drivers in the service are also still likely to drive for male clients regularly anyway.

      However if all drivers have protections for drivers to shut down abuses by scummy clients who use the opportunity of a temporarily captive audience to be disgusting towards drivers then this overall becomes less of a concern.

      Almost all forms of accommodation leave certain paths open for abuse by bad actors. Erring on the side of the person who needs additional help participating in society is usually the more ethical choice because while a bad actor can be a pain there’s usually already laws on the books or policies that can be enacted that allow you to deal with one. For the person seeking accommodation the cost of not having access can mean the world becomes a smaller and/or more dangerous place because of reasons that have nothing to do with them. In some ways that can emotionally be looked at as “letting the assholes win”.

        • Drivebyhaiku@lemmy.world
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          In general if someone wants to do you harm getting in their car and being transported to a secondary location causes survival rates to plummet. Drivers do have more options by default than their passenger unless the passenger is holding them at gunpoint.

          There’s also a stunning number of cases of male Uber and Lyft drivers stalking female clients meaning the threat comes at first point of contact when someone learns where you live.

    • BoofStroke@lemm.ee
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      How is a man asking for a woman driver abuse? Maybe I really fucking hate having to ride with dudebro cabbies and having to humor them with their inane conversations and would prefer a woman driver.

    • elax@lemmy.world
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      In that scenario, I would guess when the driver sees you they wouldn’t let you in the car.

    • AnonTwo@kbin.social
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      Wouldn’t that make you extra liable for getting sued, because on top of whatever the driver claims you did, you also specifically chose the option you shouldn’t have chosen?

      Like it’s basically adding an extra layer of “This guy was clearly a bad actor”

  • Obinice@lemmy.world
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    I understand the reasoning and positivity behind this and I do believe it comes from a really good place, it may even be beneficial to customers, but it is gender discrimination in the workplace, whether it leads to mostly positive outcomes for some people or not.

    If your employees bring in different amounts of money because you’ve started to split their available workloads based on gender (especially in an industry where gender has no impact on one’s ability to do the job), you’re now likely to decide that due to this trend over time, to discriminate further, prioritising the more popular genders over others when hiring, and when firing, and when deciding wages.

    After all, if one gender brings in less profits consistently than the others - because they’re stifled by company policy - why pay them as much? It makes business sense to pay them what they’re worth, and they’re measurably worth less than the other genders, now.

    It’s a slippery slope. Well intentioned, but damages equality in the workplace.

    • Cracks_InTheWalls@sh.itjust.works
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      Agreed. I 100% understand the rationale, but it has troubling implications. It only takes the one bad guy, but there are 25 other guys driving that night who would either be friendly or happily ignore you the whole ride.

      I’d be interested in reading a breakdown of riders and drivers by gender in some representative areas. What I see this doing is, first yes, giving women and non-binary people an increased sense of safety (which I want to stress is still extremely important). But what I also see is an overall decline in service quality for women and non-binary people. Anecdote, not data, but I’ve used Lyft hundreds of times over the years in different cities. I’ve been picked up by maybe 3 people who weren’t [presumably, I didn’t ask] male identifying. On top of this, there is the possibility of certain genders earning more purely on the basis of gender. Remember - this is a bad thing for gender equality.

      Something that might be better is an opt-in program with enhanced background checks, mandatory cab cameras designed to be difficult for your average person to fuck with some system for mandatory upload/secure storage of the footage, and other stuff along these lines. Do all these, regardless of gender, and you get a Secure Ride badge. The difficulty is the process and the knowledge you are under MUCH closer scrutiny. The prize is (potentially) access to a bigger piece of that that day’s possible revenue.

      I don’t think the above is perfect, but they’re steps towards a better system not based on gender lines among contractors.

      Now, if they were treated like honest to god employees, this kind of thing might be easier to implement. Food for thought, Lyft.

      Edit: Another thing that I think would be useful in general is a safety rating system on top of the other metrics. Have users provide anonymized data visible on the driver’s profile about how safe they felt their ride was in general. Though admittedly I can see ways this could be abused or made un-useful. But I’ve personally been in situations where I did NOT feel safe, and would have rated them poorly in this area - but otherwise they got me home in one piece, and the reason I felt they were unsafe was they busted their ass all day and were almost nodding off.

      In this situation, knowing how ratings play into Lyft and thinking about causes, my rating did not accurately reflect my actual sense of safety. An anonymous safety rating option, with comment, would have been appreciated.

  • paultimate14@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    Are they going to call it Cabracadabra?

    This is, quite literally, a comically bad idea. This has literally been used as a punchline in fiction.

      • smileyhead@discuss.tchncs.de
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        Higher risk for woman of being abused does not mean that for man of being abused is 0.

        I don’t understand why if something bad is more propably to happed to woman we make special exception in the rules just to exclude man of this protection.

        • ParsnipWitch@feddit.de
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          Since most men are abused by other men, letting men choose to be matched with more male drivers would actually increase their risk of getting abused.

        • Drivebyhaiku@lemmy.world
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          Generally there is an underlying concept of “being more evenly matched”. On average women do face more risk of being physically outmatched by men. If another woman became aggressive then their chances of coming out of the altercation would be more “fair” when matching like with like. If you’ve ever been in a good natured but honest wrestling match with the opposite sex you can usually see the power difference and the results can be pretty sobering to a female participant. These dynamics apply to social situations. If you are afraid of the outsized potential of harm someone has towards you then you are more or less forced to behave in an oppressed fashion if they choose to be a jerk because sticking up for yourself comes with the potential of a threat you are not equipped to come out on top of.

          The chance of a woman being abused by another woman is also not zero but the level of threat is more on par with what they are physically and psychologically equipped to combat.

          • smileyhead@discuss.tchncs.de
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            You explained that woman are in higher risk. But you did not explain why because woman are in higher risk we should only protect them and not everyone, even if protecting everyone would be less costly.

            Creating UI to select driver’s sex is easier than verifing your sex and then if you’re woman showing an option. This is active work hours to disallow man from a protection.

            • CaptFeather@lemm.ee
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              How many times have you been assaulted or abused by a woman? Because almost every single woman I know can count the multiple times they’ve been abused or sexually assaulted by a man. Just because everyone is capable doesn’t mean everyone is equally likely to commit these crimes.

              • smileyhead@discuss.tchncs.de
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                1. Group A is far more likely to be abused.
                2. We develop a tool to prevent abuse.
                3. We deny the tool to group B that sometimes needs it, because group A needs it more.

                I’m not denying 1., stop assuming I do with cheap arguments like “How many times have you been abused?”. Yes, woman are more likely to be sexual victims.

                But my question is why doing 3.? For Lyft it costs basically the same if not less when allowing the feature generally to everyone.

                • CaptFeather@lemm.ee
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                  I just don’t see the necessity of it considering the overwhelming majority of drivers are already male. This feature is trying to even out the odds of women getting picked up by other women which just isn’t very likely right now.

                  To seriously answer your question though, this is a marketing tactic to get more business from women who they can see use the app less than men. They’re a business at the end of the day and it’s a way they’re predicting, whether correct or not, to increase sales.

            • Drivebyhaiku@lemmy.world
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              Facilitating allowing the sex or gender selection of a service person at a company is generally illegal because it is a discriminatory work practice. There is however some flexibility to be made that keeps the company safe from greater liability when it is in the interest of safety for women because safety issues on a systemic scale are provable in a court of law.

              If anything you should probably be arguing for more services - maybe a safe driver selection based on years of safe driving and spotless customer record which would potentially benefit those with social anxiety or previous trauma. More than one service can exist at the same time after all.

              When you argue for a service to be removed from a vulnerable group because of personal spite usually the reaction isn’t favorable. You’d be better off directing that energy somewhere positive than spending on sour grapes.

        • darq@kbin.social
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          Not proportionally though. If the service is less safe for women and non-binary people, then fewer of those people will make full use of the service. So either way, the male drivers probably aren’t getting their custom. The safety features increase the size of the rider pool even as they might exclude some riders from some drivers. Women and non-binary drivers might take over the additional riders, but those drivers might have previously been driving men who are now left for male drivers to pick up. The overall impact to male drivers isn’t as bad as just losing those opportunities.

    • surewhynotlem@lemmy.world
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      (numbers pulled out of my ass, but…)

      99% of men don’t need it so won’t use it. 99% of the remainder will use it to find a target to harass. Whoever is left might miss out on a great feature, but they’re barely a rounding error.

      Personally, I’d love a feature that let me pick a driver that would just shut up.

  • Eder@lemmy.world
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    All the dudes complaining in here are the epitome of “wanting to be oppressed so bad”. So much invalidation of women’s experiences and trauma from harassment and abuse. I knew many Lemmy users were weird but God damn bro, y’all make Redditors look like saints. Until my partner stops constantly being stared at by perverted men on an almost weekly basis, I’ll keep letting women decide who they’re comfortable to be around.

    • mrnotoriousman@kbin.social
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      As a man, it’s honestly quite embarrassing some of these comments. My gf is tiny and one of my best friends is also a tiny woman. They endure so much shit on a daily basis without even discussing how imposing men can be in an enclosed area like a cab. I wonder how many of them in here whining are creepers themselves

    • abbotsbury@lemmy.world
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      I’ll keep letting women decide who they’re comfortable to be around

      That’s kind of a red herring from “a corporation providing systemic discrimination”

  • KoboldCoterie@pawb.social
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    That’s a neat feature; I wonder why it’s explicitly not available to men (who would prefer a male driver for whatever reason)… I guess maybe they feel that would go against the stated goal of encouraging more women to sign up as drivers, but like… why? If nothing else, men with a preference for male drivers would ensure that more women / non-binary folks could get drivers matching their gender, since as they note there’s far more non-male riders than drivers.

    I also wonder if it gives non-male drivers the option to only accept riders who match their gender, which it seems would be the more important facet to encouraging non-male drivers, if safety concerns are the reason they’re not signing up to do so.

    • popololote@lemmings.world
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      Maybe it’s about men preferring female drivers and making it harder for other to get them. Woman may request a female driver to feel safer but men provably don’t do it so much for that reason.

          • KoboldCoterie@pawb.social
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            If you’re non-binary, or not male, then you fall under this policy anyway; it only doesn’t apply to male-identifying males.

            • XbSuper@lemmy.world
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              But couldn’t someone just claim to identify that way, and abuse the system? This is a really dumb idea.

              • subignition@kbin.social
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                I mean, sure, any system can be abused, but it’s a lot easier to prove intent when you now have to commit fraud to get in the situation to begin with.

                • kmkz_ninja@lemmy.world
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                  How is it fraud to think you’re nonbinary and are we now going to have judges telling you whether or not you’re gay or non-binqry?

        • QuaternionsRock@lemmy.world
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          Does that mean that non-binary riders are only paired up with non-binary drivers, or are non-binary people and women grouped together?

          • KoboldCoterie@pawb.social
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            All we have to go by is what’s in the article, which says:

            Lyft is introducing a new feature that lets women and non-binary riders choose a preference to match with drivers of the same gender.

            That’s kind of open to interpretation; either they’re calling non-binary a separate gender and matches people accordingly, or they’re really saying “Woman - biological and trans - can choose a preference to match with woman drivers”.

      • HikingVet@lemmy.sdf.org
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        Really? Seems like a bit of a stretch.

        Never heard any of my male friends ever comment on the sex of a driver or even have a preference.

        I mean all my evidence on this is anecdotal, and yours seems like it’s just conjecture.

        Edit: How do men not caring about the gender of their driver reduce the amount of woman drivers for the women who ask for them?

              • HikingVet@lemmy.sdf.org
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                Men may not, but women do.

                That’s my point. Men aren’t asking for this, so how would it reduce the amount of women drivers for women who wish to be passengers?

        • popololote@lemmings.world
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          If men and “not men” can ask for woman drivers they are “competing” for some drivers and making it harder for each other to get them. If only “not men” can ask for women it is easier for them to get the driver they want. So if men don’t have a strong preference it’s easier for other to get what they are asking for.

          I’m not agreeing with them, just trying to make sense of it.

          • KoboldCoterie@pawb.social
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            It’s not about men asking for women drivers, it’s about everyone requesting their own gender - that’s what the policy allows. If a woman explicitly wants a male driver, this doesn’t help them, same as if a man wanted a woman driver, or a non-binary driver.

  • you_are_dust@lemm.ee
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    So this feature is matching with someone of the same gender only. That’s the impression this gives. So women with women, nonbinary to nonbinary. Ok. Why are men cut off if that’s the case? How many more lines of code could it possibly be to just implement it for everyone instead of specifically choosing to exclude people? It would be the exact same PR if it was made available to everyone. There’s zero reason this couldn’t just be implemented universally. In terms of this making things safer or more comfortable, couldn’t someone that is a slimeball just lie? The article says you have to choose your gender. What is actually stopping someone from misusing this?

    • darkstar@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      I doubt exclusion of men from this feature has anything to do with it being more work to add men. Hell, it’s actually LESS work to enable it for everyone than it is to add exclusions. Excluding men was a business decision, I’m sure.

      Now, I’m in the privileged position of being male, so take this with a grain of salt, but I entirely disagree with the blatant sexism of this feature. I get the purpose, but it feels horribly misguided. Can women not commit violent or sexual crimes? Can nonbinary people not commit violent or sexual crimes? Only men can apparently commit these crimes, according to the people who thought this feature up. Sexual crimes by women, for example, go wildly underreported…Even if they were using statistics to justify how they implemented this feature, they didn’t do their homework.

      • CaptFeather@lemm.ee
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        You’re missing the point. Obviously anyone is capable of commiting these crimes, but men overwhelmingly commit them to women than any other circumstance, and they’re almost always much more violent than the inverse. Shit, my friend showed me a TikTok the other day about a woman who rejected a man, then slapped him when he wouldn’t take no for an answer. You know what he did in response? He hit her in the head with a fucking brick.

        Instead of instantly going to “this is sexist”, maybe stop and think why it’s even being considered in the first place.

      • AnonTwo@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        I mean based on how the exclusion works it’s more about who they want to protect, not who they think will commit crimes. The guy in the previous post said it only does same gender matching when the feature is used, so the only reason there isn’t a male driver option is because there’s no feature for male passengers. (because it’s same gender only)

        And you’re saying they didn’t do their homework…while also saying they go unreported, so there wouldn’t be much to research to begin with…

    • Akagigahara@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      It’s probably due to the saturation of how many male drivers Lyft has. It reports that only 23% are female. While it doesn’t say how many non-binary drivers there are, I doubt they make up more than a few percent. That puts men at ~75% driver share. So the chance of a a female rider, which according to Lyft are about half of their riders, being paired with is vastly smaller than a male rider getting a man.

      0.5*0.75=0.375 chance for a man to get a male driver.

      0.5*0.23=0.115 chance for a women to get a female driver.

      While yes, you can abuse the system, you have to make a more conscious effort about being a “slimeball”. This isn’t necessarily a feature to prevent SH and SA, but more to make drivers and riders more comfortable.

      Oh, and about the amount of code: it would be less code, as you do not need to filter and can just start a match-search.

      • uberrice@feddit.de
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        1 year ago

        Your calculations don’t hold up. If you get a driver from a 25/75 pool, you are 25 or 75 percent likely to get that gender as your driver, no matter your own gender. So this 0.5 times is not needed.

        • Akagigahara@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          You seem to have misinterpreted what I was calculating.

          The 0.5 is the gender of the user, which is important to calculate whether a user gets their own gender as a driver or not.

  • Evie @lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    I’m just here for my popcorn and comment entertainment. Which did not disappoint

  • Yoldark@sh.itjust.works
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    1 year ago

    That’s really bullshit. This result will be that every male drivers will become non binary to not be discriminated by the customers.

    This is not because some suffer that it is correct to punish an entire gender for that.

  • saegiru@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    Cool, now both Lyft and Uber need a “no extra conversation” option too. I don’t want to talk to the driver when I use rideshares, I hate the incessant small talk they want me to be a part of. I know some people might like it or at the very least not mind it, but I absolutely can’t stand it 9 times out of 10. Give me the option to specifically not have it please.

    • Gork@lemm.ee
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      1 year ago

      Last time I used Uber I remember seeing this feature as an option.

      • saegiru@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Wow, was not aware although after just looking it up, evidently it is only for ‘premium’ rides and not standard. As if having someone not talk to you should cost extra. 🙄