• The2b@lemmy.vg
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    16 days ago

    Of course they will. Liberalism is a center-right ideology, they’re closer to fascists than leftists.

      • Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        15 days ago

        Their good old performative “Fight for Equality” which very pointedly ignores Wealth Inequality and Wealth Discrimination which curiously, are not only the biggest of them all by a huge margin, but are even the mechanisms that multiply many-fold the negative consequences (and hence the hurt) from other kinds of inequality and discrimination, AND stop the descendants of the victims of past discrimination from pulling themselves out from the hole past discrimination threw their ancestors into (in simple terms: if you were thrown into poverty by discrimination, the poverty keeps the hurt going even after the discriminatory actions have stopped and will make it very likely your descendants are stuck there and keep on suffering).

        They’re literaly doing the very minimum (when measured by actual effects) they can for Equality whilst claiming they’re “Fighting for Equality” as loud as they can, in order to claim they’re “helping the disfavored” and hence are there for the many not the few.

    • MisterFrog@lemmy.world
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      15 days ago

      As time goes on, I think it’s less and less strange our dominant conservative party is called the “Liberal” Party of Australia.

      They practically the same party as the democrats. So I guess the name makes sense.

      The US is so far right it hurts and Australia is not even that left wing these days.

      The only thing I’m proud of is that our media is practically 100% right-wing/corporate interest captured, and we STILL manage to elect left of centre governments from time to time.

      Preferential voting is something very near and dear to my heart.

    • jimmy90@lemmy.world
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      15 days ago

      so you’ll campaign against them for one reason or another and help trump to a historic third term?

  • CosmicTurtle0@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    16 days ago

    Democrats would rather lose their power “temporarily” than lose their influence permanently with a progressive.

    We need a third party like four months ago. We are running out of time to challenge the standing democrats.

      • DarkFuture@lemmy.world
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        15 days ago

        Just here to point out that the 3rd party candidate with the most votes was Jill Stein with a whopping half of a single percent of the total votes cast.

        There is no viable 3rd party. And there won’t be until they start working to get elected at the local/state level and start getting members in Congress.

      • MisterFrog@lemmy.world
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        15 days ago

        First past the post can only be beaten if you manage to swell enough support for a third party to be viable and not split your vote. And because of maths, this is a huge obstacle to overcome.

        Some back seat democracy for ya (I am not from the US, from Australia): you need to hammer on about voting reform, and mostly voting reform, until you have it. This needs to be the number one issue in everyone’s minds until you have it.

        “We need to beat Trump” is a band-aid at best, and is unlikely to win over any conservative voters to your cause (and, you will need them to get a third party to have any chance, in my opinion).

        Your system is beyond repair without it (in my opinion).

        Y’all need preferential voting, and/or proportional representation. Or whatever change means future reform is possible.

        You already have multiple parties, who each stand no chance against the spoiler effect without a massive campaign to get democratic voters (and maybe some Republican voters) to switch to it.

        Anything short of that means you’ll get another Republican government.

        And at this rate, this means your barely-counts-as-a-democracy will be dead.

    • DarkFuture@lemmy.world
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      15 days ago

      We need a third party like four months ago.

      Then tell one to do the back-breaking work over decades to start having members in Congress so they have a shot at winning a presidential election.

      There isn’t some cheat code for a 3rd party candidate to become president.

      • Brandonazz@lemmy.world
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        14 days ago

        This is so often overlooked. A 3rd party could win EVERY SINGLE AVAILABLE SEAT in a presidential election year and they would still only control the executive - Congress and the judiciary would still have a supermajority of not-thems, and you couldn’t change that in one term, or even two. Not to mention every governor, state legislature, county board…

  • Wanpieserino@lemm.eeBanned
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    15 days ago

    If you don’t like trump and you didn’t vote, then you’re to blame.

    My country has compulsory voting so nobody has an excuse

      • piefood@feddit.online
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        15 days ago

        No, it’s the Republicans who are to blame. The Democratic leadership is to blame for not putting up a candidate or policies that the voters wanted.

        It’s always amazing to me that people will blame the people who couldn’t stomach to vote for the Democrats, rather than getting mad at the Democratic leadership for being so awful that people can’t stomach to vote for them.

        • SmilingSolaris@lemmy.world
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          15 days ago

          True! One is an ocean of random people with their own beliefs, reasons and personal choices. The other is an institution. An organization with a plan. A plan they wrote themselves. A plan they get detailed statistics and polling data on. A plan in which they saw what they needed to do to win and chose not to, effectively betting on anti trump sentiment to keep them from doing the thing parties in their position are supposed to do. Concede to the people and make concessions. Instead they said “status quo, steady as she goes” mid genocide, mid rent crisis, post covid and they lost that bet. No one is to blame other than the gamblers who played power politics and lost to fascists.

          The people are not an organized voting block able to strategically maneuver their votes. That’s what a party is for. That’s it’s whole purpose. And the Democrats failed as a party in that election due to their inability to stop committing a genocide, to stop pandering to mid right voters via radio silence on trans issues and active abandonment of immigrants via the adoption of 2016 trump immigration policy.

          I mean come the fuck on, she was talking about FINISHING THE FUCKING WALL, the thing we all agreed was the dumbest thing ever. What do you want when the party runs someone like that?

          I get you people who wanna blame the leftist in your life or on the Internet you saw saying they wouldn’t be voting. I get that you blame them. But you should blame the party who thought they could win without conceding anything whatsoever to any of the marginalized groups who had no other choice. They learned that there in fact was a 3rd choice and now we all suffer the Democrats incompetence

        • pebbles@sh.itjust.works
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          15 days ago

          Yeah I agree. I see a lot of folks out here victim blaming rather than critiquing the folks with the most power.

    • BlairMtnWarrior@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      15 days ago

      If my country had compulsory voting and my choices were trump and harris I would have voted for mickey mouse. Or do they send somebody in with you to vote for an approved candidate? Because that doesn’t sound like anyplace I’d be interested in living

      • MisterFrog@lemmy.world
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        15 days ago

        Where are you from? How it works where I’m from, is that you’re required to go vote. What you fill out on the paper is no one’s business.

        Just put in a blank paper. Turn up because it’s your duty by being a citizen. We live in a society, not as individuals. People who want to live in isolation and not affect anyone else are welcome to fuck off to the middle of the ocean for all I care.

        Compulsory voting retains majority of Australians’ support, because it makes voter suppression incredibly difficult.

        It’s SOOOO easy to vote here it’s not even funny. We can partially thank compulsory voting for keeping it that way.

        If they tried to make voting harder, everyone would be pissed off, since they’re required to vote. Good luck getting such a reform to stick…

        Unlike in some certain countries where apparently you’re not allowed to give water out to voters in certain states.

        Wild. Dumb. Much freedom to not vote 👌

        Compulsory voting is great. We love it (well, most of us think it’s a good thing. I love it, personally)

    • XxPariahxX@lemmy.world
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      15 days ago

      I didn’t vote, and it doesn’t matter that I didn’t vote.

      There are mass counties that had 0 Harris Votes and all DT. This is a statistical impossibility. On top of the already impossible results we’ve seen with the election anomaly all point together at obvious voting fraud. The election didn’t happen as you think it happened, it happened because billionaires conspired together to put a lunatic at the helm.

      • UCIL19841202@lemmy.ca
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        15 days ago

        Hope you’re enjoying the current democratic backsliding the USA is experiencing. It’s partially your fault for letting it happen.

  • lobut@lemmy.ca
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    15 days ago

    Did you listen to the latest tiff between David Hogg and James Carville?

    Carville really wants to push progressives out of the Democratic party while keeping their heads in the sand. I think his last rant was because Hogg wants to replace existing Dems (Carville says he should be replacing Republicans). However, I think Hogg wants to do this because these Dems aren’t really doing anything and waiting to pick up the pieces from this Trump administration. I think agree more with Hogg that it’s more important to show the people that you represent them rather than be like: “we’re not the Republicans”.

    I’m not an entire fan of Hogg though, he seems a bit inconsistent but I agree with him here.

    To be clear, people should have voted for the Democrats. We’re all in the position we’re in because not enough people did. Would you get what you want? No. But we still wouldn’t be in the mess otherwise. I mean, assuming the election wasn’t stolen.

    That being said, all these older people that don’t seem interested in fighting for their people need to be purged from the Democrats. I don’t know if it’s because they’re really old or out of touch or what. There’s a thirst for people to want representation for them to fight (as seen by the AOC and Bernie rallies). I think their inactivity isn’t helping for the most part. Also, they need to get some more names out there.

    • conditional_soup@lemm.ee
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      15 days ago

      Yeah, I’ve been low-key following this drama and Hogg is out there spearheading the “tea party style takeover” that people have been saying the DNC needs. Carville, Schumer, and Co. seem to think that letting the republicans off the leash to blow up everything and hurt everyone is the best path forward. Put another way, the plan is to continue offering shitty corpocentrism and hope that voters prefer corpocentrism (clothed fascism) over naked fascism again in two and four years. Fuck that and fuck them, Hogg can take my energy and blast those fossilized assholes with a spirit bomb.

    • anarchiddy@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      15 days ago

      It’s because the democrats simply cannot fund-raise on the kind of populist progressive policy Americans actually want.

      Democrats are up schitt’s creek without a paddle - they can’t fund-raise without the support of the large donor-class, and their increasingly populist progressive base are simply not satisfied by the kind of economic policies those donors are desperate to preserve.

      If democrats stay this course they will never hold more than 45% of congress again and only win the white house maybe once every 3 or 4 terms.

      • lobut@lemmy.ca
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        15 days ago

        If democrats stay this course they will never hold more than 45% of congress again and only win the white house maybe once every 3 or 4 terms.

        Yeah I’m feeling that.

        You bring up really good points. How do you go to the large donors and say, “give us more money to help take more money from you”.

        • BillyTheKid@lemmy.ca
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          15 days ago

          I’m greedy. I want the live in a clean and safe society. Empirical data exists that shows one way to achieve this is the Scandinavian model; high tax funding social services.

          At least, that’s how I dress it up.

      • Katana314@lemmy.world
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        15 days ago

        I’ve brought it up on other Lemmy comments, but one thing I really want to work on with messaging is “Eat the rich”.

        Case in point: Elon Musk is evil. He’s a toe-sucking narcissist who can’t stand that South Africa ended apartheid. He’s a loser that can’t beat the first Path of Exile boss. He’s…make up your own insult, and I’ll likely echo it. But what I can’t stand is commenters saying that anyone and everyone possessing as much money as him is equally evil. Basically the equivalent of so many school “Zero tolerance” policies.

        Musk is evil for his actions, not just for personality. Yes, a large number of rich people are also evil - there’s logic behind that venn intersection. But capitalism is our system, even if we decide we want to start changing it. Past the big names of horrible people that have lobbied the system for their own interests, many rich people are just…quiet outside of their main successful ventures. One very ready playbook of the far right is to point out how many Democrats - even honest ones that have made excellent changes - are evil simply for having net worth in the millions. As long as “Eat the rich” is a popular slogan, it tends to work, and convince donors that progressives are out to hunt them down with axes.

        My take on a better message would be: We all want a better world. Have you ever wandered the streets of venice, wishing you could have that nice communal feel back in America - unburdened by homeless people, dirty streets, or traffic? This is our goal. House the homeless. Clean the streets, and encourage recycling. Put people on public transit. Progressives will tax you more to make that work, but will make a better world for it; one where people don’t need to hire private security to protect from betrayed employees, or shelter in an SUV to go two blocks. If you’re a businessman, vote Republican. If you’re an honest businessman, vote Democrat.

        The message could use some work, but perhaps you get the idea.

        • anarchiddy@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          14 days ago

          But what I can’t stand is commenters saying that anyone and everyone possessing as much money as him is equally evil. Basically the equivalent of so many school “Zero tolerance” policies.

          The existence of billionaires while millions of people are starving and homeless is the evil those commenters are pointing to.

          Almost as if those people are upset about a system that valorizes and encourages immense wealth inequality, and not, like, which people get to be billionaires.

        • opus86@lemmy.today
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          15 days ago

          All the career federal employees that have lost their jobs because of Musk numbers in the thousands. Their knowledge, skills and experience with federal programs just wiped out because of that freak. The true cost of this is just beginning. Nothing is going to work soon.

  • alekwithak@lemmy.world
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    15 days ago

    Yes, let’s get preemptively angry at those not currently in power for something we assume they’ll do!

      • InvertedParallax@lemm.ee
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        15 days ago

        Yes, we’re losing and the world is descending into fascist ruin.

        But at least I get to feel smugly superior!

        This is not that different from the monsters on the other side who are destroying their economy and the standing of the country.

        But at least they get to feel racist and abusive to brown people!

      • infinitesunrise@slrpnk.net
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        14 days ago

        I keep voting for these losers every time and super cool very smart people like you keep blaming me for them being losers, it’s fucking awesome.

      • Voroxpete@sh.itjust.works
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        15 days ago

        It wasn’t the wrong candidate, it was the wrong campaign.

        The Dems stood in front of an electorate crippled by 4 years of rising cost of living and said “Look how good the economy is! GDP is up! Employment is up!” The electorate said “We can’t afford eggs,” and the Dems said “Shut the fuck up our economy is great how dare you say otherwise you worthless peasant!”

        The Dems never stopped to consider that high GDP is meaningless if all the money ends up in the hands of billionaires and high employment is meaningless if everyone is working three jobs to make rent. Biden refused to allow any daylight between himself and Kamala on any issue, so they ended up just presenting a new wrapper on the same shit sandwich.

        Trump meanwhile said “I hear you, everything is too expensive. I’ll solve it by blaming immigrants and doing some magic involving something called tariffs that I promise will make everything cheaper.” Now, none of that is actually a solution, but that didn’t matter, because when you yell “Help, I’m drowning!” and one person says “No you’re not”, while the other says “Yes you are and it’s because of brown people…” you don’t really listen to anything past the “Yes you are,” because the point is they apparently want to help you and the other person doesn’t. Trump didn’t need to have workable solutions, because the Dems forfeited the entire contest before it even started. Trump just had to show up and sit in the chair.

      • DarkFuture@lemmy.world
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        15 days ago

        I dunno. Pretty sure a wet paper bag would have been better than a felon rapist traitor who’s shitting on our Constitution and tanking our economy.

  • kreskin@lemmy.world
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    16 days ago

    It’ll be Shapiro or Blinken. Its still all about the $$ at the DNC. Nothing else matters.

  • kittenzrulz123
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    15 days ago

    If Josh Shapiro wins the nomination I will not vote for him, I cannot stand this nonsense, this is absolute insanity. How the hell are modern Democrats less progressive than FDR (and he was a massive racist), we are a century ahead yet we are centuries behind. Now we’re fighting over which fascist is more palatable so when can whitewash them and call them progressive. I voted for Kamala in 2024 but NOT AGAIN, I will NOT vote for another mild flavor of fascism lite.

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      14 days ago

      They need someone who isn’t flagrantly pro-Israel. Democratic voters are going to associate Israel with MAGA, given Netanyahu’s very vocal support for Trump. While the genocide should be the red flag, being painted as team-MAGA is the bigger red flag due to how politics is a team sport in the U.S.

      It’s not a good look.

  • 4grams@awful.systems
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    15 days ago

    We have two corporate parties, the status quo and the controlled opposition. They occasionally switch labels but until we get the corporate out, we will never have a real choice.

  • F_OFF_Reddit@lemmy.world
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    14 days ago

    AOC is a clear choice, I’d say Bernie but I’m already tired of old people in power.

    AOC is young, in touch with actual issues, in touch with the generations that are moving the economy, knows the struggle since she used to be a waitress and so far I haven’t seen her go crazy on anyone else’s agenda or buying stocks and enriching herself beyond measure like damn old hag Pelosi.

  • Kcap@lemmy.world
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    15 days ago

    I still feel like the dnc is going to lean heavy into Buttigieg. He’s young, an eloquent speaker, a sharp debater. He clearly is down to play ball with the dnc establishment as they want him to (stepped aside for Biden to get a cabinet position) , and they hope that he’s baggage free enough (Kamala and her Marijuana prosecutions) that progressives will vote for him. Yes, he’s gay, and the hardcore magats won’t like that, but I think older suburban voters would rather have someone sane that’s gay than insane and straight.

    • GreenKnight23@lemmy.world
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      15 days ago

      I think you vastly underestimate the hate conservative voters have for gay candidates.

      if they have any hope for a candidate it’s someone like Tim Walz. old, white, trustworthy, and a “too old for this shit” attitude.

    • tiredofsametab@fedia.io
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      15 days ago

      older suburban voters would rather have someone sane that’s gay than insane and straight.

      Based on some older people in my family that disowned their own child: doubt.

    • Boomer Humor Doomergod@lemmy.world
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      15 days ago

      He’s young, an eloquent speaker, a sharp debater.

      Those things only matter to nerds.

      Everyone else will see “Butt” in his name and giggle

    • Battle_Maiden@lemmy.world
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      15 days ago

      No, we voted for Bernie. He won the primary and for some reason Hilary was the candidate. That was the beginning of the end. We didn’t vote for Harris to be our candidate either. THAT is how Trump wins. The majority did not want trump either time he ran for president, but the DNC made sure he won by putting in their least popular candidate. It’s a dog and pony show. Both sides are working for the same people.

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        15 days ago

        “Before won the primary” is a different reality from the one we live in. Even if you remove the superdelegates and only look at the ones decided by popular vote, Hillary won that primary.

        I wanted president Bernie Sanders and voted as such. But I actually live in THIS reality and don’t waste my energy whatabouting if an election had gone differently.

        • infinitesunrise@slrpnk.net
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          14 days ago

          They’re describing where the Democrats failed and how we got where we are today. It’s a posthumous assessment. That’s not whataboutism.

    • Brave Little Hitachi Wand@lemmy.world
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      Is a difficult subject because on a personal level I’ve lost dear friends to insane propaganda, and I still haven’t forgiven myself for not being able to save them from it - and I’ll probably never forgive them for it either. They were supposed to be smart.

      People think I’m smart but I fall for stuff too. In media, the existing weapons can be stronger than the defenses, and sometimes that’s all there is to it. Modern media makes the greatest aspirations of MK Ultra look like child’s play.

      I’m still not convinced memes aren’t a great filter, unless great filter theory is just another shitty meme.

      To sum up, people did vote objectively incorrectly. The Democratic party however is not guilt free. The whole system is built on violence, and that grim old tree won’t bear fruit unless you water it.

    • stabby_cicada@slrpnk.net
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      14 days ago

      The American people aren’t stupid. They’re poorly educated and brainwashed by propaganda.

      When a kid without developmental disabilities gets to 12th grade and still can’t read or write his own name, we don’t blame the kid for being stupid - or at least we shouldn’t - we blame the parents and teachers. The kid was failed by the people who had the responsibility to teach him.

      Same with politics. Voters don’t have degrees in political science. They make the best decisions they can based on the information they have. Biden presided over the worst economy for the poor and middle class and the biggest wealth transfer to the ultra rich in my lifetime, Harris told voters “I’m not going to do anything different from Biden but Trump will destroy America so vote for me”, Trump told voters “I know you’re hurting, Biden and Harris failed you, and my policies will help you”, and voters made the best decision they knew how to make.

      Which was a stupid fucking decision. Granted. But the lion’s share of the blame has to go to Biden, Harris, and their enablers. They were the experts. It was their job to keep America from making that stupid fucking decision. And they failed America.

  • splonglo@lemmy.world
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    15 days ago

    Isn’t there enough bad things happening right now to complain about? This is a totally imaginary scenario that is years away and you’re all ruining your day a little bit more by engaging with it.

    WHY?

    It is totally wasted energy. Total waste of time. Counter productive to your political goals. Encouraging a culture of fixating on problems you have no idea how to solve. Bonding over helplessness and apathy.

    You know a lot of canvasers are thinking about ditching the dems and going independant? You could encourage them, you could become one of them, you could help give them arguments and counter narratives, make memes, shitpost for a good cause, post in mixed comment sections where half the people hate you and fish for an even mix of upvotes to downvotes - that’s how you know you’re reaching people! Take a little pleasure in becoming unbotherable.

    Also, counter narratives are great because you don’t have to substantiate anything. ’ ICE is deporting random innocent people to fill quotas ’ - your move, rightoids, I spent five seconds writing that and one braincell. Zero effort and they might end up spending 100x the effort countering it. God knows I’ve been on the other side of that. It’s a brilliant rhetorical tactic.

    You don’t even have to keep arguing, you can just post ‘sounds dumb’ or ‘bad argument’ or nothing at all and just leave!

    Bots wouldn’t exist if posting comments on the internet didn’t do anything. And even doing nothing is better than perpetuating misery-posting culture in the online left.

    Tony Benn said that the job of the left is to 1) anger people and 2) inspire hope. We need to get a lot better at the second one.

    :edit:

    Just to clarify, I also hate the Dems lmao

    • uienia@lemmy.world
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      15 days ago

      Our local lemmy tankie brigade are strangely indifferent to the doings of Trump and his fascist oligarch regime, but they are positively obsessed with the Democrats, even as the Trump regime is doing its best to ensure that elections and thus the Democrats will not be a thing in the future.

      They will also claim to care about genocides, but they are not only strangely indifferent to the genocide occurring against the Ukrainians, they will happily regurgitate the Putin talking points used as an excuse for it.

      These people are not really “the left”, they are authoritarians. They do care about any left wing issues, they do not care about the rights of the exploited and the weak, and they do not fear fascism, they are just mad that it isn’t themselves who are sitting in power right now.

  • Bigfoot@lemm.ee
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    15 days ago

    Friendly reminder that the goal behind posting memes like this is to instill a sense of cynicism and discourage political participation from people who hold progressive values. A key indicator here is the use of the nefarious-but-nebulous “they” which is commonly used in antisemitic-coded “globalist” or “cabal” conspiracy theories.

    Democracy in America is unequal and unfair but the “deep state” the way conspiracy theorist portray it is simply not real.

    • Catoblepas
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      15 days ago

      Accusing OP of posting crypto-antisemitism for using the word “they” in the title of a post that has an extremely clear, literally labeled target (the DNC, if you look at the second panel) feels extremely disingenuous.

      • polyploy@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        15 days ago

        It also has nothing to do with discouraging political participation, but rather encouraging more active political participation in processes outside of simply voting intermittently. When both choices offered are dogshit, or no choice is presented in the first place, the point isn’t to say “all hope is lost give up” but rather “this is broken in a way that voting will not fix.”

        When the DNC is actively doing things such as obfuscating the very clear decline of the sitting president in order to bypass the primary process and install Harris, or ratfucking someone like Bernie via super delegates, media control, and so on in '16, this was not done by some “nefarious-but-nebulous they”. It’s very explicitly the DNC. Harris was one of the least popular candidates in '20, one of the first to drop from the race, and her term as vice president did very little to ingratiate her to those she ostensibly represents.

        Whatever it is that needs to happen in order for people to get the sort of representation and principled opposition to fascism that most of them actually want, the DNC itself is obviously highly resistant or outright incapable of providing it. Voting alone will not fix this.

        (edited '16 to '20 for the Harris primary drop out, realized I’d gotten dates mixed up and double checked afterwards to confirm)

    • piefood@feddit.online
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      15 days ago

      This isn’t trying to discourage people from voting, it’s trying to send a warning: “If you keep putting in terrible candidates and running on terrible policies, you are going to keep getting shitty turnouts”

  • dryfter@lemm.ee
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    15 days ago

    This whole discussion has been a fascinating read in the comments.

    But does anyone really think we’re going to have another election? Much less a non-rigged election?

    • orcrist@lemm.ee
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      15 days ago

      The system was already rigged, of course. Electoral college, absentee cancelations, felons disqualified. It was broken before so even if things stayed the same (which they won’t) it’ll still be broken.

      I do expect elections to continue. Just much less honestly.

    • theneverfox@pawb.social
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      15 days ago

      Yes, well have a next election. Not because our democracy is that strong, but because trump and Co are that weak

      They will try to rig our next election, no doubt. I’m just confident theyll lose so bad there’s no rigging it

    • conicalscientist@lemmy.world
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      15 days ago

      I don’t find very much interesting about this conversation anymore. If it can even be called that. American politics is like scripted television drama. It’s quite fitting. Except it’s so predictable. It’s the same script on loop.

    • HipHoboHarold@lemmy.world
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      14 days ago

      I think its important and great to plan ahead. Especially in times like this. And Im hoping they give us someone people will vote for this time. Because holy shit, almost anyone is better than this

      But also Im not holding my breath. Im honestly not even sure if I’ll be in a camp or not. But either way even if we do have elections it will likely be in the same sense that Russia has elections.