I made a post about the Europeans who are being deported from Germany for being anti-genocide. https://lemmy.ml/post/28407953
A user repeated the now many times debunked lie that these victims facing deportation were “violent racist rioters”. Blatant German propaganda, made up to smear opposition to the genocide in Palestine. Which Germany supplies 30% of the weapons for.
After calling them, and a few other users out for repeating the same lie, the moderators banned me.
I’d say BPR. I think you’re largely correct on the facts but you need to be able to express them without insulting a large portion of the community you’re in, or you can expect to be banned. I understand you probably think this is a uniquely horrible circumstance that rises above such ideas of decorum but that’s obviously not how people who disagree with you will see it.
So, I’d advise you to think harder before commenting because you’ll be a lot more effective in getting the facts out there if you do.
I would only be insulting a large portion of a community if they identify with the pro-genocide propaganda. Which they seem to do, and that is the real problem.
Many people complain about bans from .ml for sinophobia. Occasionally I agree that the moderators are tad too trigger happy on liberals.
However let’s imagine that my comment was about Russia. And I was “debunking Russian propaganda” on ml, would people still say that I should have also cared more about the feelings of the users which might feel insulted by a plain truth?
You’re funny, .ml bans everyone, even communists, if they don’t support their Stalinist authoritarian version of it. You can be as friendly and toned down as you want, they’ll still ban you.
You picked the wrong comparison my guy.
That is strange because I have criticized Russia plenty of times without getting banned.
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This is going a bit off topic but you obviously haven’t looked very much at the bannings on ML if you think this is in any way comparable.
A frank discussion of certain facts around China or its leadership is automatically labeled “sinophobia” on .ml, and immediately results in an instance-wide banned. I was banned for referring to historical China (before the revolution even) as an empire. Explain how that’s sinophobic if you think it is.
You called people racist idiots and Nazis for supporting certain politicians. That goes beyond just stating the facts.
I personally don’t usually support bannings and think comment removal is a better option in most cases. But if you got banned for calling most Russians racist idiots and Nazis then I don’t think that would be too problematic.
China would be a better comparison though since they are materially supporting mass-murder but not directly doing it (at least not outside their borders). Russia is more akin to Israel in this example.
I see are two common reasons people catch bans. The first one is repeating Western propaganda from bad sources such as Radio Free Asia which gets almost all its funding from USAID and will write any slander against US enemies.
A second is using orientalist language which was made up by the West to demonize its opponents. Spamming the word “terrorist” for Hamas comes to mind when it is not even classified as a terror organisation by the UN (because it’s not).
The orientalist one is a bit harder to understand even for me as many terms which are considered common tongue in the West are off limits and you don’t really know which. I do think the admins can be too trigger happy on this one.
The reason the comparison to Germany doesnt go up is because Germany called itself Nazis and their Nazi past is very comparable to their present. Locking two million people in a concentration camp and starving them to death is far beyond the war crimes committed by Russia.
What would be offensive is me going into the Ukraine community and calling everything Nazis because of Azov existing. Because the Ukrainians are not trying to actively exterminate all Russians. Whereas the Germans are actively trying to exterminate all Palestinians.
PTB but it was inflammatory. Truth often is.
There are many many people who wish your words were not factual, and the ban is not surprising to me
You actually not complied to the rules oft the community. Just because on .ml everyone who doesn’t fully support hamas gets labeled as Nazi and then banned for rule 1 (racism) doesn’t mean you can expect to call obvious abusive bullshit on other instances and get away with it.
And just to be clear: Israel doing horrific warcrimes and need to be stopped. German weapons supplies are a disgraces 21% for the AfD are fucking bad.
We “german lemmings” are with you on that, we just don’t accept your lie talk about being “pro-genocide” if we don’t fully support kidnappings of civilians from the other religious group in the conflict. We are sick of idiots accusing us of being Nazis while some of us live in fear that actual Nazis beat us up when we walk out of the door because we are on the spectrum, Jews, Muslims, have long hair, got outed as communists, or even being a supporter of the fkin green party.
The rule to… not call out the German government for their complicity in genocide? I didn’t find it. It must be one of those unspoken german rules.
You actually not complied to the rules oft the community. Just because on .ml everyone who doesn’t fully support hamas gets labeled as Nazi and then banned for rule 1 (racism) doesn’t mean you can expect to call obvious abusive bullshit on other instances and get away with it.
Yes. You are racist and Fascist if you do not support armed resistance of people in a concentration camp against their oppressor.
This is “do you support the Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto fighting back against the Nazis” and if the answer is no then you go straight to the Nazi bin. You expect .ml is going to wait 30 years for people to have “always been against this” like Nazi Germany, instead of simply “being against this” in the present while a people are being exterminated.
The only reason you cannot accept this is because Germany literally makes it illegal to not be racist (support the Palestinian resistance) and nobody around you dares not being racist.
But the actual Nazis who make extremist statements such as Israel has the right to kill Palestinian civilians are the ones running Nazi Germany.
See thats exactly the flamebait.
There is a war between two religious fundamentalist parties.
One of them is clearly worse than the other, opressing them and doing horrible warcrimes.
One can be against the horrifying killing, bombing and starving of civilians by a right wing religious fundamentalist government while STILL be against the kidnappig and shooting of civilians by a religious fundamentalist organization.
You making up a false dilemma by throwing everyone who has a more complex view on things than “this one religious fundamentalist group is in the right with everything and the other one needs to be completely annihilated” Into the the Nazi bin.
This is clearly not argumentation in good faith.
Sure one side is clearly worse, but that doesn’t make the other one untouchable or not to be criticized.
criticizing the scewed media in Germany, actively going on anti-israel demonstrations, demanding from your government to stop sending weapons and instead initiate tariffs on this far right warcrime nation BUT STILL not defending the shooting of civilians on a music festival or kidnapping of them, is a valid position, it may not be your position, but calling those position “pro-genocide” or “clearly Nazis/fascists” is just plainly wrong.
You can be activly fighting against genocide WHILE STILL not fighting for a radical fundamentalist religious group.
You can fight for the people, their rights, their lives while not supporting their ideology.
You making a “either you are 100% with us, or you are a facist” argument is either plain stupid or ragebait and surley neither dialectic nor materialistic.
There is a war between two religious fundamentalist parties.
Like fuck it is 🙄
There is an oppressive occupation of mostly defenceless civilians, not “war between two parties”. Unless you consider Nazi final solution “war between two parties”.
Just realise I’m arguing against someone who honestly asks “should vegans who raise their kids vegan get their kids taken away?”
And makes fun of women who are afraid of going out at night in fear of violence from men…
Guess we don’t have any common ground for a good faith discussion
Guess we don’t have any common ground for a good faith discussion
I guess we don’t as I am finding defending nazi murderes abhorrent and drawing comparison between them and their victims, a behaviour only a total cunt would possibly engage in.
Strawman xD I am not defending the Israeli state, fkin fascists need to be stopped. But that’s the thing with you guys, your world view is so narrow that you can’t possibly imagine someone having a differentiated view. In your eyes anyone who disagrees with you on anything must be a supporter of the other side. You can’t believe someone actually arguing about actions he believes are wrong. You promptly see red and think he only criticize you because he is an agent of your enemy.
Both can be true lol. Being oppressed AND being fundamentalist religious.
There are also oppressed parts of that party who are not as religiously fundamentalist, like the fatah. But being on the oppressed side doesn’t make the hamas less religiously fundamentalist. Like fighting against the Nazis in ww2 didn’t make USA less a capitalist party
Don’t get your point here.
This is a colonial project of a secular racial supremacist state (like the Nazis) using religious symbolism (like the Nazis) commiting ethnic cleansing (like the Nazis) against a people fighting for their freedom in a concentration camp (like the Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto against the Nazis)
Rarely will you witness a conflict more black and white than the genocide in Palestine. If you spent any time on Lemmy you should know by know what the truth of the situation is. Any other opinion is either willful ignorance, or in the case of Germany, racism.
You are fighting a strawman, no one is arguing “Israel = good”
The point is that killing civilians is bad, even if done by people fighting facist Israel
That religious fundamentalism is bad, even if done by people fighting facist Israel
You are wrongfully argumenting that criticizing warcrimes on one side amounts to supporting warcrimes of the other side.
You can be against starving of civilians, against genocide, against shooting civilians, against holding civilians hostage, against religious fundamentalism because those things are bad tools from an ethical point of view, no matter who uses those tools.
You are saying those tools are only bad, if israel use them, not when Hama’s uses them.
You are saying everyone who is against killing civilians IN GENERAL is a nazi
You are exactly proving my point.
If you keep someone locked in your unlit pantry for 50 years, feeding them nothing but piss and shit, and suddenly they break out and start trying to shank people, it’s not very brave or intellectual to suddenly come out as “one who is against ALL knife fights and stabbing in general”
If I’ve been protesting against keeping someone locked up in an unlit pantry for years and arguing humans should be treated humanly and neither tortured nor killed, and then they break out and start killing civilians regardless if they were part of the oppressors or not, it is only logical I say this is, while understandable, still not the right thing to do.
You’re completely glossing over the power imbalance in this hypothetical. You cannot compare violence of the oppressor with violence of the oppressor as if they exist in the same moral plane. You liken Hamas’ resistance to systematic oppression, but how can Hamas systematically oppress when they have no weapons, food, water, or power? Pretty easy to say “Akshually, i think both sides need to play by the same rules” when one side has an inordinate power advantage over the other side. You’re doing everything in your power to condemn the violence carried out by the oppressed side so that you can ignore the inherent violence of the system that created this genocide.
“No one is arguing Israel good, but anyone fighting against them is bad”.
Here a short clip. You are the lady on the left https://youtu.be/GtivLcDAHz0
C’mon, you seem like someone arguing for something you really believe in.
I literally said I am supporting the protests by going there.
You use quotation marks as if you were quoting something I said, which I clearly didn’t.
Why this strawman?
Supporting Palestine means supporting Palestine. Not this wishy washy both sides BS.
If you do not support Palestinians fighting back against their colonial genocidal oppressors then you do not support them. Especially when you go around denouncing people online for it.
Hamas exists because Palestinians have exhausted every other possible peaceful method of resistance. Even Hamas did a peaceful march in 2017 and Israel shot medical workers there.
Love the person is ignoring the one asking if just being accused should be an appropriate level for being deported
YDI.
I’m not usually one to be a tone police bastard, but (hope I’m tagging this right) @LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net was right.
Rule #3 on Europe@feddit.org- “Be kind to each other, and argue in good faith. Don’t post direct insults nor disrespectful and condescending comments. Don’t troll nor incite hatred. Don’t look for novel argumentation strategies at Wikipedia’s List of fallacies.” Emphasis mine. “No the German authorities are the racist idiots. And so is anyone agreeing with the German authorities.” That’s pretty obviously insulting.
I really want to stress that my judgement here is independent of the point you were making. No one provoked you. You can read the rules. You could easily have made your point without insulting someone, but you chose to be insulting. And don’t get me wrong, you can take satisfaction in doing that, if you’re doing it on purpose and you feel it’s called for, but you still would’ve deserved it for breaking the rules of that space.
Rule 3 taken literally means you can’t call nazis out as the shit stains of humanity that they are. Sometimes rules are too simplistic and tone policing is a really, really common one.
So like I said, there can be satisfaction in breaking the rules. But you’re still going to get the obvious repercussions.
If I called a nazi a nazi and get punished for it, I’d wear that shit proud, not bitch about it. And things being the rules doesn’t make them moral. But you can still deserve the reaction you got, even if you were right in everything you did, and when that happens, you should be thrilled, not complaining.
If I called a nazi a nazi and got punished for it, I wouldn’t be posted to YPTB, because that’s not power tripping. I’d be posting it everywhere else that there are nazis, and don’t you want to come call one of them a nazi and collect your trophy ban?
Other users are insulting the people protesting against genocide and not getting bans.
I did not insult any users. I insulted the German government for its complicity in genocide and everyone who aligns with that view point.
You blanket labelled all Germans as pro-genocide and made sockpuppet accounts after you got banned. We know it was you by your rhetoric.
Russian propaganda = Russian government
German propaganda = “the people of Germany.”
Btw telling you believe anyone opposing Nazism is a sockpuppet. Do name these sockpuppet accounts.
You know very well which ones. Most having inflammatory names directed towards me or towards Germans. One of them being named “udumbbitch”.
I have no other accounts posting in that post and I think it is hillarious that you cannot fathom more than one person opposing genocide.
You are on the wrong side of history again.
Wow you have really kinda gross ideas about rules.
I’m not surprised. There’s a post over there semi-ironically thanking Trump for truly shattering the global image of American superiority.
Meanwhile, the very same EU is falling prey to the exact same kind of demagogues we did. And no one but a few even brought that up.
Right wing populism isn’t just an America problem for sure.
You spelled “fascism” wrong.
Potato potato
YDI
Perhaps you were banned for supporting a shitty terrorist state
Perhaps you were banned for supporting a shitty terrorist state
Eh? He didn’t support neither Israel nor Russia.
One government’s terrorist is always a community’s freedom fighter/people’s liberation army/resistance. I vote people over oppressors, health over harm, actions over words and whoever is responsible for the least amount of destroyed lives. In terms of current death toll numbers, IDF:Hamas stands at 54:1.
