They sell things that come in cups, or with napkins. Lots of people cycle/run/walk here instead of driving, seems pretty stupid.
Taking away the bins doesn’t mean you don’t produce rubbish…
Edit: I think there is still a bin IN the cafe, but most people eat/drink outside. Lots of people asking staff where the bins are. Still hypocritical I think though? (And still mildly infuriating to remove well used bins!)
I was walkin’ through the forest
And a sign said they removed the bins to produce less rubbish
“We kindly ask all visitors to take their litter home!”
Man, what do I look like, a garbage bin?
Wait, so there are bins inside and they don’t want bins outside because it’s a wildlife area?
Sounds like OP’s a little lazy, this is a very understandable change
But they sell disposable items, likely for profit. They can’t have a system to dispose of trash in a responsible manner?
Just though it on the ground
- the general public, probably
…huh? They want to cut down on litter by removing the convenient locations for people to dispose their would-be litter?
Fuck there are some incredibly fucking stupid people in charge of places right now…
When I was visiting England I remember my grandpa and I walking around London looking for a trash can and being shocked at how rare they were compared to the US
One reason that the UK has few trash cans is because of the IRA, a
terrorist organization[edit: paramilitary organization] that would plant bombs in them. It is kind of a sore point when Americans notice stuff like this, because US citizens were significant donors to the IRA.N.B. There isn’t a reason why you should know this.
This is the reason given in Australia by Parks Victoria
LEAVE NO TRACE
Advocate for minimal-impact practices wherever you go. Many people are surprised to find no bins in national parks. Waste attracts native animals, which can change their natural behaviour and harm both natural and cultural sites, as well as your personal belongings.
Always bring rubbish bags (and one for your neighbour) and take all your rubbish home. Help educate others about the importance of leaving the park pristine, minimising your impact on the delicate balance of the ecosystem.
I feel like you want more trash cans not less. Make it easy for people to clean up after themselves
Have a fence, sign, benches seems pretty antithetical to LNT.
Different country, different styles I guess.
Think it’s a mentality as well.
Had a friend in high school and after the drive in we went to, I cleaned up my trash and threw it away. My friend said “why are you doing that, they pay people to do that” and proceeded to leave her trash.
Didn’t stay friends, but who the f thinks that way?
Entitled Amerikkkans… that’s who.
Pick up your own trash.
Not other people’s trash.
YOUR OWN.
I will absolutely pick up other peoples trash if it’s somewhere like the wilderness. They should have picked it up themselves but I’m there now and that trash shouldn’t be there.
Me too…I bring bags with me and clean up places I hike / fish / camp…I try to leave places better than when I found it and it absolutely irks me when people can’t be bothered to throw their own trash away.
I guess it wasn’t clear that I think it’s ridiculous that people can’t even pick up their own trash.
Looks like the bean-counters thought they could easily axe the trash cost by shoving onto eveeyone else. I doubt it will increase the natural beauty there.
I’d give this some odds of reducing trash pollution. It can seem frustrating, but it MAY change people’s behavior in a way that reduces litter. Behavioral economics can be counterintuitive.
EDIT: What matters is the result. If this makes more people litter, they should probably bring back the bins. If this reduces litter, they should keep it this way, regardless of how inconvenient or “stupid” you the reader find it.
No. Most people just start littering when there’s no trash bins nearby.
Think of the stupidest person you know, etc etc.
Hardly an issue of stupidity. We’ve got shops a short ride away that sell you disposables with the intent of bringing them into the park. And we’ve got a park that’s removed the bins used to cart the waste back out again.
The stupidity is in the policy. Either you have to prevent people from bringing this stuff in (incredibly difficult) or you have to manage the waste that exists by centralizing its collection and export (significantly easier and cheaper).
People that litter are atupid/lazy/poorly educated.
Unfortunately, if you don’t provide bins, some people are going to litter. Does my head in.
Selling food that comes with garbage included, in a location without bins, is littering.
But that’s why you take the rubbish home with you, where there is a bin. Where’s the end user responsibility?
You used “but” as if you were going to disagree with me, but then you didn’t. It was strange.
They’re shit people. I take cans home to recycle because we don’t have proper recycling at my workplace.
If you operate a business that sells things in paper plates and wrappers, you certainly have a moral responsibility to have waste receptacles to collect those waste products.
The problem isn’t that a park lacks trash cans. The problem is that a cafe removed their trash bins.
The he cafe still has bins inside, they have a way to collect their refuse.
The park removed the bins since people from the cafe weee likely overfilling it.
Where does the sign say the cafe removed them…? The sign is from the ministry of forestry and speaks only for what they did. Remove the park bins.
How do you know that? You’re not OP.
You’re the one vehemently claiming the cafe removed the bins. So I throw that right back in your ignorant face.
For my side, we have a nice little sign that explains everything, if you would be arsed to read it that is…
The OP edited their 5-hour old post about 2 hours ago according to the timestamp. Your comment is only 1 hour old 🤔.
I feel the same way, but about places that sell coffee having an obligation to provide a public bathroom.
Glares angrily at 7-11
Let us sing praise for the Rhineland Palatinatian Landesverordnung zur Ausführung des Gaststättengesetzes (Gaststättenverordnung - GastVO -), in effect since 1971, which mandates one toilet each for males and females in every restaurant or pub, and more for larger establishments.
I used to work for the Woodland Trust and believe that this is the right thing to do. Bins in woodlands do not get emptied often and will often overflow and attract unwanted pests like rats. Rats will also eat the eggs of ground nesting birds and cause other environmental issues.
If they are selling food on site then the food vendor should have a bin that their customers can use inside their cabin/cafe and dispose of the waste daily as part of the service.
Bins in woodlands do not get emptied often and will often overflow
Think I found the problem— why not do the obvious thing and empty them more often?
Who’s gonna do it and pay for it?
If people weren’t such babies and cleaned up after themselves, we wouldn’t need to waste taxpayers money on cleaning up after adults who could do it themselves.
Me, via my taxes I would expect.
I dunno about you, but if I see a bin in a public area, I assume some is paid to empty it. I don’t empty it myself.
If you took your own garbage with you like a decent human, there would be no bins to be emptied and you would have better uses for that tax money.
Where did I imply the public should be doing it….?
So your entire argument is public bins are useless?
You understand that people should clean up after themselves whether or not there is a bin, but offering a bin is a useful service that greatly helps people out can be compatible right.
The cafe has a bin inside of it, put your garbage there before leaving.
They removed the bins from the public forestry path.
Not everyone is using the cafe? People are allowed not to eat in a private restaurant. The availability of a bin shouldn’t be dependent on spending money.
Who’s gonna do it and pay for it?
Sounds like there’s a bunch of people and some kind of organisation that runs this area, after all, they made the decision to take the bins away. This is also a cafe area, so someone’s making money off this zone.
THOSE PEOPLE ARE.
Yes… the sign is from the forest ministry no? So the government that your tax money pays for would be dealing with it.
If this was a businesses garbage, those usually aren’t overrun, since they have plenty of time and money to deal with the garbage.
But government agencies…? Give your head a shake bud.
he forest ministry no? So the government that your tax money pays for would be dealing with it.
great. good.
But government agencies…? Give your head a shake bud.
???
The problem isn’t that a park removed their trash cans. The problem is that a cafe removed their trash cans.
The cafe still has garbage cans inside, and why would the forestry speak for the cafe…? The sign is from the ministry of forestry, why would you claim the cafe removed the bins when they stated THEY did themselves?
It’s like people just make shit up to get mad about. The sign told you who removed it for fucks sakes lmfao.
What makes you think the cafe still has bins inside? The OP here is claiming the bins were removed from the cafe/picnic area.
Because they legally have to? You can’t have a food service business and not have garbage and recycling bins….
Are you just gonna make up any stupid reason you can come up with now to try and save face that you can’t read a sign?
The OP also claims there is still trash bins inside; and the edit to add this information was done 1 hour before this guy claims there is no bins inside 🤦♂️.
So they can’t afford to keep the land they have in trust so it is all the landless peasantry that should labor for the land holders because kindness ?
Wild argument. No one is “laboring for land holders”, they’re cleaning up after themselves for their own good and the good of everyone/thing around them
Genuine answer here, as someone who volunteers for the parks. A lot of times the budgets are tight, depending on whose responsibility it is to clean up the area and what services are there/nearby, the staffing just isn’t available. Yeah it’s a pretty easy thing to do in theory, but in practice when it becomes “okay and 2 hours of your shift is driving out there and emptying the cans” it’s not a far leap to just “Remove the cans, make the snack stand dispose of their garbage on their own”
I mean I get it, the cans are nice but also, like you’re an adult. Throw your trash away on your own.
“But then people will throw it on the ground!” Okay then pay someone to stand out there and slap every idiot that thinks littering is okay because they couldn’t find a can in 10 seconds.
It’s common decency in plenty of places around the world to take your garbage with you until you find a can. It’s not hard.
Because that would mean employing someone to empty them regularly, and as most woodland is few and far between in this country most woodland owners deem that an unnecessary expense.
There’s a cafe and forestry workers, is it that time consuming?
And how do they get the garbage to the dump? You would need vehicles, insurance, garage, maintenance departments… it all snowballs.
Just be responsible for your own garbage, not a hard concept.
The cafe will have a contract with someone to take away waste, this waste could be included.
I totally agree people should take away rubbish that they create, unfortunately many dont.
Public waste wouldn’t be included in the cafes waste, you expecting them to foot the bill?
Sounds like the cafe is run by forestry England. If they don’t want thick and lazy people to chuck waste around the forest and cafe area, I think they should provide bins. Unfortunately, some people don’t care.
This is right by the cafe/site office/car park though. The reception desk is about 20m to the left and staffed during daylight hours year round.
Not like it’s in the middle of nowhere.
I get your point, there are very few bins elsewhere (mostly by the other car parks) and that’s fine. It’s just that the place that gives you rubbish makes it hard to responsibly get rid of it.
Isn’t there a bin at the cafe?
I think that’s the problem. I interpret it as the cafe removed their bins.
It’s a sign from the forest ministry, they removed their bins.
Why on earth would you think a sign from the ministry of forestry would be speaking for and removing a cafes bins…?
Read the fucking sign for fucks sakes. It’s literally, right fucking there.
Read the fucking post for fucks sake. It’s right fucking there.
The sign says the bins were removed. The post headline says the bins were removed from the cafe area. This is a cafe at a visitor center at a forest.
Before you go insulting the reading comprehension of others, try working on your own.
Sorry to break it to you, but the OP explicitly states that they believe bins are still inside the cafe. In other comments they also claim they are still available at other nearby parking lots.
The cafe is a building itself and the park removed the bins from outside.
You realize that OP probably missed stuff or intentionally withheld information to make this sound worse than it is?
Before you go insulting the reading comprehension of others, try working on your own.
Says the one assuming and claiming with zero evidence that the cafe removed them…? When there’s a nice little sign that explains everything already?
Read the sign, and have a little critical thinking yourself. This isn’t that hard to comprehend.
The cafe is a building. Inside are bins, OP had even stated this, or is OP not a good source when it doesn’t align with your ignorance?
I’m calling you out, since this has already been figured out, and you’re just late to the party and saying “the cafe did this”.
No they didn’t, stop perpetuating that lie that is easily disproved by the sign OP posted for us….
Gentrified forest is the most cursed phrase I heard in a minute.
I think it’s a pretty good description. Has a tarmac car park, cafe, bike hire, 3 go ape routes, wheelchair accessible routes and until recently, bins!
You should look up the definition of “gentrification.” There are a ton of options that don’t suggest that the homeless people in the forest are being forced out and replaced with wealthier homeless people.
Maybe “commercialized” would be a better word choice? Alternatively, “developed” or “sanitized?”
What does homelessness have to do with anything? Gentrification isn’t specifically about homelessness, I don’t see anyone else mentioning it before now… where did you pull that from?
Gentrification seems to mean the rapid renovation of an area to appeal to a wealthier crowd, which this could easily cover.
Generally, usage of the term “gentrification” refers to the improvement of neighborhoods - or other places where people live, like apartment complexes - and, due to increased cost of living, the displacement of the people who used to live there. Displacement of less wealthy current residents when gentrification occurs is so common that it’s implied. If it weren’t, people wouldn’t have such low opinions of gentrification.
If a forest has been gentrified, therefore, then - if you interpret “gentrified” in the same way - it follows that people who have been living there have been displaced. And since those people were living in a forest - not in a cabin in a forest - they’re necessarily homeless. Since OP didn’t say that they were building houses or apartments in the forest, that would mean that the wealthier people who displaced them were also homeless.
Since the context was another commenter calling “gentrified forest” a cursed phrase, I don’t think I’m alone in thinking that.
Poor people won’t feel at home if there isn’t trash strewn everywhere. They’d probably avoid going to that place.
You are right, I was thinking the definition more being taking it up market, fancier etc. didn’t realise the term was more for the human effect.
Old people have moved there and the prices have skyrocketed.
It’s like my university campus removing all ashtrays to stop people from smoking.
In the US they could just restrict smoking areas
please clean up after yourself.
That’s not how this works.
Weird, when Japan does it everyone praises them. I guess us western societies are just too trashy to clean up after ourselves.
I came here to comment on Japan, haha. Almost everywhere you go, no trashcans and no trash! Their society is like a hive mind in a lot of ways, though. I’m not sure it’ll work with Rugged American Individualism®
Edit to add: Damn, I just realized OP is in England. Maybe they can make it work.
I looked it up and they seem to still have them in train stations plus in areas where trash/recyclables is expected to be generated (convenience stores, vending machines, parks) so it seems like a bit of a stretch (also the reason for less trash cans being a 1995 sarin gas attack).
Even just the train station bit seems like an unfair comparison for places without any sort of public transportation (where people walked/biked from home). Yeah, I can see people being more likely to hold their trash if passing receptacles is part of their planned route.
Japan takes the garbage bins away from cafes?
No they’re there, however there aren’t trash bins once you leave the food vendor. If you walk away then you’re responsible for the trash. So people just finish eating and dispose the trash there. Even if it’s a stall or food truck, you can hand your trash back to the staff, they will happily accept it.
If it’s for carry-out, people will pack their trash for disposal at home (you’ll see a ton of people walking around with backpacks and totebags).
Yeah for this reason, you don’t see this culture of eating/drinking while on-the-go in Japan lol. It’s too inconvenient. It’s something that tourists have to adjust to. But it’s nice - the country is very clean and beautiful, no trash in sight. You might see some little old lady picking up a piece of trash that isn’t even hers lol. That’s the pride they take in their country.
Also there’s an important difference in Japan that should be mentioned. A lot of the success is due to shame culture. You will feel like a bad person and get the side-eye for littering.
As far as this sign in England - I think suddenly taking away all the trash bins for a place that relies on them would be a disaster! But if that’s the plan, then maybe taking only some away here and there could work over time. People need to be trained after all lol.
Source: I spent 1.5 months in Japan
It’s not actually much different in Germany, there’s zero bins just randomly lining the streets. Areas with shops will have some, parks and playgrounds usually have one or two, but that’s it. “Park” here is to be understood quite broadly, it might be a footpath with nice view and some benches. Bus stops also tend to have bins.
I’ve never been to a Japanese cafe, but knowing what I know about them from Japanese acquaintances, yeah, mostly.
They’d probably either use actual dishware that is returned and washed, or yes, expect people to bring disposable waste home with them. Everything I’ve heard is that public trash bins are not non-existent, but they are rare.
Lots of corner stores and vending machines in Japan that sell basically full meals and no trash can in sight.
I don’t think people realize that custodial staff are different than general park staff. If they have bins then they need to deal with that whole process and have at least one dedicated employee. I’d rather have to carry my trash and let the park use that money elsewhere.
For what it’s worth, I do agree it’s probably “gentrification” in the sense that the concept of carry in/carry out is more prevalent in middle class communities, mostly because they are more likely to engage in hobbies where or go to places where it’s a more prevalent part of the culture. I’m not sure non-middle class people have the same experiences/lifestyle that lead to thinking this makes sense to do.
Everyone praises them? The only times Ive heard (from westerners visiting/moving there) is that it is very annoying that there is never anywhere to throw away their trash
Different experiences then, because most people I’ve spoken to about it there and back home have talked about how clean it was despite that and commended the society for being so responsible with their waste.
