I’m looking for a job. I saw Alice works at ACME brick. Bob knows Alice. Bob and I used to work together. I asked Bob if he could introduce me to Alice so I can ask Alice 1) for help getting in touch with the hiring manager and 2) what the company culture is like. Bob said yes and I asked Alice my questions, with Bob CC’ed in the message.
This has seemed OK with most people. However Bob said my conversation with Alice seemed one sided and excessive and like I was taking advantage of him just to get to the hiring manager. I am, correctly, asking for help getting to the hiring manager, for inside info. I am not only asking that, but it is part of what I’m asking. I am also asking about company culture and advice when talking to the interviewer. Bob was very upset and I think I’ve burned that bridge.
Is this wrong, in general? Is it OK but not asking too often? Most people seemed to be OK with it, but I worry they were just being polite and I’ve been unknowingly pissing off my entire social life and hurting my chances at getting a job. (why yes, I do have anxiety and take meds.)
Heck that’s the entire actual reason for LinkedIn’s existence.
I was in IT management for a decade. Plenty of my former employees or coworkers still come to me for help when they’re job hunting, and I hook them up. That’s the purpose of networking and it’s standard business practice.
Wish I’d realized the worth of networking sooner. Ideally, you start with it in college. I was always a loner so I simply didn’t. As a result today I have zero fallbacks for when I inevitably get shitcanned.
Then again, I was always a bad liar, and “selling yourself” is essentially just that. If you don’t pretend you are hot shit, you are, well, just shit.
Oh, for sure. I guess I assumed Bob made the introduction by email. So OP could reply to that intro email with a “Thanks, Bob! Alice, pleasure to meet you, I’ll send you a separate email to introduce myself and blah de blah”.
Acknowledge the email and thank Bob, then drop him from the convo. Regardless, Bob doesn’t need to see the sausage being made.
Just start adding everyone in your field on LinkedIn. I have 1000 contacts on there and only post when I have a lead on a job and want to hook people up, or when someone I know needs to find a job. I posted for a recent college grad the other day and got him 6 interviews in a week.
Job hunting is a god damn jungle, so everything that works in your favor goes. But I do think you owe Bob a beer over dinner.
Yeah, this pretty much sums it up. Didn’t really do anything wrong, but it sounds like you rubbed your buddy the wrong way. Smooth things over with him and move along with life
Not wrong at all. I got more than half of my jobs through former colleagues. That’s also one of the reasons I never burn any bridges when changing jobs. Especially former bosses are likely to call upon you when they change jobs.
If Bob feels wronged somehow take him out for a drink or dinner or so. Especially if you end up getting the job. To celebrate.
If Bob feels wronged somehow take him out for a drink or dinner or so
I don’t think Bob is ever gonna return my calls, heh.
He sounds overly sensitive, I wouldn’t worry about it’
It is ok to ask. Just introduce “back” if someone come to you for the same favor.
As a hiring manager who receives these kinds of introductions, here’s my thoughts (largely confirming what you’ve already read here.):
- These introductions are great. Keep it up.
- Bob is probably more sensitive about it than Bob’s boss. To Bob, this was uncomfortable. To Bob’s boss, it was just a normal Monday.
- It’s a good idea to buy Bob lunch or dinner to say thanks, and get a tip or two on refining your approach.
But don’t take any of it too seriously. As hiring manager, I see this a lot, and I enjoy it.
It feels great that people want my time.
And I’ve been the job searcher myself plenty of times.
You did a good thing. You can probably refine your technique, but don’t sweat it.
Unless someone is vocally racist during the intro, making any connection at all is a better impression than not doing so.
I’m currently looking for a second career job. I’ve put out literally 100+ resumes in the past couple of months. The only two positions I’ve heard back from were from agencies where I knew someone.
Asking for help/an in is not only acceptable, but in many situations, the only way to get a position.
Don’t feel bad for something everyone else is doing.
Conversely, anytime I’ve worked somewhere where a position opens that a friend of mine may benefit, I let them know and will hunt down the hiring manager once my friend applies.
I let them know and will hunt down the hiring manager once my friend applies.
As a hiring manager who has experienced this kind of introduction or “name drop”, I want to add my perspective:
It’s great. Keep it up.
I got introduced to one of my best team leads that way. (To be very clear, I didn’t know the colleague making the introduction. We worked together but had never quite crossed paths. I still buy them a thank-you lunch occasionally as a thank you for their bravery, and selfishly in case they or another peer of theirs is job searching.)
Disclaimer: As a manager, it’s my job to apply fair hiring practices, and I’m committed to that. I don’t have many great answers, but I know today’s computerized HR filters aren’t fair to anyone, anyway. We need to do better, and personal references are probably the best tool for candidates, right now.
I asked Bob if he could introduce me to Alice so I can ask Alice 1) for help getting in touch with the hiring manager and 2) what the company culture is like. Bob said yes and I asked Alice my questions, with Bob CC’ed in the message.
This has seemed OK with most people. However Bob said my conversation with Alice seemed one sided and excessive and like I was taking advantage of him just to get to the hiring manager.
Was Bob upset because he didn’t know that was your intent or just letting you know that you didn’t handle the interaction well and that it makes him look bad?
Doing something that is common can still get push back if it isn’t handled well.
Was Bob upset because he didn’t know that was your intent
I don’t think so. I’m pretty up front about my goals. I messaged Bob and said that I am looking for a job and I want to ask Alice questions. Literally. “Could you introduce me or send my contact info over? I’d like to get an inside perspective about the work environment and ask more about the job.”
I then asked questions like “can you introduce me to the hiring manager or send my contact info their way? Additionally, what’s the work culture like? Are bosses on your case all the time or are they asking how they can help? Do people like working there or does everyone complain? What’s the work hours like?”
Soinds like Bob thought you were too direct and too fast in asking a lot of questions instead of ‘getting to know’ Alice or something along those lines by calling it one sided. That could be a valid complaint, since most people don’t want to be contacted for a list of specific questions that will have answers in their email history. They mostly want to volunteer what they are comfortable first and maybe answer follow up questions. Like I wouldn’t answer a question about ‘bosses being on everyone all the time’ or if coworkers complain all the time in an email.
Bob could also be wrong and making a huge deal out of nothing too. I’ve worked with a few people who assume the worst from and email exchange without actually talking to the people involved. But more likely you came on way too strong too fast and if you worded it that way in the email then your approach was too strong for someone you don’t know.
Yeah that’s the other thing. We know what OP is saying, but what was Bob’s understanding of the intent? That’s context that would help figure out if Bob’s upset because he feels used or if he’s moreso embarrassed by how the email went down.
I read it as Bob was fine with it as a concept but was letting OP know they came in too strong and probably pissed Alice off. Or Bob thinks Alice will be pissed off.
Based on the words in the post Bob is embarrassed about how OP approached Alice.
I have done this exact thing. Its what multiple career coaches have said to do. In my experience the networking aspect of job hunting is the part that actually gets jobs these days.
So, imo, this is not wrong. Bob agreed so it was fine. It does sound like maybe buying Bob a beer and not asking that particular Bob to do it again is reasonable. But the process in general is sound!
It does sound like maybe buying Bob a beer
lol, I don’t think Bob is ever gonna talk to me again.
It’s called “networking” and it’s completely acceptable.
It’s like any other social interaction; you have to be able to ‘read the room’ and gauge how the otehr person is feeling.
Without reading your actual email, this all sounds normal to me. Networking is how people get jobs.
I would have probably thanked Bob and dropped him from the email before asking Alice questions. Bob doesn’t need to be on that email once he’s made the introduction.
I wouldn’t have CC’d Bob too lol kinda awkward and not his business anymore
I would have probably thanked Bob and dropped him from the email before asking Alice questions.
I usually do this. I even said that directly. “I don’t wanna clog up Bob’s inbox, so can we talk directly?” Alice didn’t accept direct communication, though, and replied via CC, so I went with it. Oh well.
Hindsight is 20:20. Regardless, I think Bob is overreacting, assuming your email to Alice was in the range of what I personally would write and nothing you said was sparking red flags to me l.
I don’t think it’s wrong necessarily, it just depends on the vibes of the email. Also Bob’s relation to Alice may have intricacies you aren’t aware of. How friendly is he with her, and what exactly did he say to her? Apparently Bob thought you went overboard with the questioning. I wouldn’t dwell too much on it, but just saying personal relations can be tricky.
Me I prefer to do things more informally. For example, I could let Bob talk to Alice and get back to me himself. Of course that’s inconveniencing Bob and I’d super owe him one. Or if Bob gave me Alice’s contact info (after he told her what was going on and she consented), I’d just reach out to her on my own. Send a text or something. Also idk about your line of work, but some people are weird about emails lol. Some wanna do things through email, some by text/phone.
