I bit ago I made a post detailing the Egg prime directive in Egg irl. To be clear that was a policy post but it also helped outline the concept in a way that many people don’t do. Most descriptions of the Egg prime directive are either incomplete or, purposefully uncharitable. So it’s good to clarify it.
This is a different kind of post, unlike that one it’s not a policy post in regards to community enforcement, it’s more meant to address the issue in a general sense.
Today I’m going to talk about why the Egg Prime Directive is important, and also more importantly, why people disagreeing with it or not following it isn’t acceptable.
First why does it matter? Well I discussed it heavily in my other post but the gist of it is that it is important to respect the way a person identifies themselves, the pronouns they use, the label they call themselves. Regardless of how they look or present themselves. It seems like a pretty fundamental concept that there shouldn’t be any issue with, yet somehow many people seem to have an issue with it and don’t do it. When a person’s identity isn’t respected it can be deeply hurtful and is ultimately deeply disrespectful to them.
Why ‘disagreement’ with the egg is problematic at best? Well the thing is, because the Egg Prime Directive is solely about respecting the way a person identifies themselves and their autonomy to identify themselves in a way that they see fit, to argue against it is to argue against people’s validity to self-identification. It’s not much different from arguing against certain aspects of trans rights. Ultimately many instances where people break the Egg Prime Directive are targeting individuals who are Gender-Nonconforming or even NonBinary.
Some people argue that they should be able to break it to fight cisnormativity. However this is a very poor justification to try and make it seem okay to violate someone else’s gender identification and ultimately isn’t being done for their benefit, it is going against their right to identify as any gender or use any label they feel like. To be clear, they have that right, all the time. The idea that someone doesn’t have the right to identify as their preferred gender or label in certain circumstances is downright dystopian.
Bottom line, there is no such thing as respectful disagreement with this concept, going against the Egg Prime Directive is solely an act of going against another person’s identification. It isn’t respectful to them as a person. It’s very similar to “respectful transmedicalism” or “respectful transphobia” in this regard. It is a harmful behavior made out as if it’s respectful or good.
Oh and By the way. Before someone tries to argue that Egging is “politely explaining what trans means to someone” this subject has been covered in the last post and respectful support and education is NOT Egging, and is freely allowed by the Egg prime directive, if not explicitly encouraged, trying to argue as if it somehow isn’t is disingenuous, and frankly seems extremely uncharitable.
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Hi can you explain precisely how the Egg prime directive is “willfully withholding information”, because from how you explained it it seems you did not read anything that I wrote about it, and instead chose to give it the most uncharitable interpretation that you could think of.
Just for clarification how it was laid out doesn’t prevent or intend to stop people from sharing information, it intends to stop harmful behaviors like “Sweetie you’re definitely an egg, no one who’s a boy would ever want to dress and act like that”, you know blatant gatekeeping. Though maybe you think that standing up against someone or debating their identity in such a way constitutes that, in which case this argument is futile because you are arguing for the very thing many of us here do indeed find reminiscent if not straight up transphobic in nature, that is to say intentionally misgendering someone or dismissing or debating their identification.
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I think what a lot of people in your position fail to understand is that for someone else to challenge or debate your identity when you don’t know, or worse, are okay with or even happy with the way you currently identify can feel extremely shitty. It’s not going to necessarily make a person who’s comfortable with their gender seriously question their gender, but depending on the hostility of the egg culture and the kind of arguments people are making it can make them question reality or feel like there is something that is wrong with them. The worst cases of Egging are outright gaslighting, and torment. One hallmark of it is that the person being egged doesn’t have a say in it or a way to formally get out of it.
It also doesn’t target cis people either. See a lot of people in your position think it’s a trans vs. cis thing, but it isn’t. It almost explicitly targets Gender-Non-conforming people. That also includes people who are nonbinary, genderfluid, transmasc. People who might be seen in these situations as some form of trans-in-denial. When they aren’t even cis to begin with. Maybe you think that’s different but the kind of egging you’re talking about, based on external ““signs”” or presentation doesn’t discriminate, it catches all GNC people in the net, especially those who are stealth or otherwise not openly Trans/NB/Genderfluid.
Now to say it’s to fight cisnormitivity is laughable to me, and many other people to be honest, because gender stereotypes and gender conformity is one of the most cisnormative things there is out there. Think about it, the idea that only girls wear makeup, or dresses, or can act/dress cute, that isn’t something that we stand for. Yet it is the backbone of that kind of egging.Edit: I want to clarify that I’m in no way trying to imply that trans people are enforcing gender stereotypes. I am trying to point out that the act of egging people based on gender presentation and non-conformity is enforcing those stereotypes, as if to imply that someone dressing or acting a particular way means they are that gender. I’m not saying that trans people are enforcing gender stereotypes. Quite the opposite. My criticism is toward Egging as a behavior.
It makes me wonder how many Nonbinary, Genderfluid, or even transmasc people have also been killed by unfounded egging. By the aggressive presumption of their gender identity, making them feel bad or invalid and not feeling like the world accepts them. I’m Agender, I’ve gone through this before and I know what I’m taking about. Having someone argue to you that you are something that you aren’t sucks ass. Invalidation sucks, who knew.
To your point about nonbinary people getting caught up in it. I can’t even tell you at this point how many specifically trans women I’ve had tell me point blank to my face that I’m not actually nonbinary. That my egg still hasn’t fully cracked and the only reason I think I’m nonbinary is because of internalized misogyny. I’m just too scared to be the woman I really am deep inside.
I didn’t figure out I was trans until my mid twenties. I had a whole gender crisis in high school but because my knowledge of gender identities began and ended with full binary MtF/FtM I eventually figured I must just be cis but against the gender norms forced on men and boys. Yeah I’d have crying fits wishing I had been born a girl, but those tended to link back to people bullying me for not being “man enough” or my early career wish of going into childcare or early childhood education and quickly learning that I’d be forever looked at as a predator purely because man alone with children. When I thought about actually being a girl? That didn’t feel right either. I’m sure at least a little bit of that was due to being asexual and not being comfortable with the sexualization inherent in much of the female experience but I didn’t know that at the time.
Anyway it wasn’t until I had that discussion with the woman that eventually became my wife that I learned that nonbinary was even a thing you could be and suddenly I had a word for everything I’d felt since I was like 14. So I understand the impulse to say “but I wish someone had told me sooner” but like… I got “egged” a lot before this. Not a single one heard my story and gave me info on nonbinary identities. They all heard me say “I don’t feel right as a guy, but being a girl didn’t feel right either” and did some variation of “Egg. Internalized transphobia/misogyny. Egg.”
That really sucks, I’m sorry you had to go through that
It really sucks that people can be so ignorant and intolerant. I’m happy you were able to figure yourself out in the end though, in spite of those horrible enbyphobic people.
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I’ve definitely heard of it happening offline, but it is true that most people only ever talk about the Egg prime directive online. Likely because most violations occur online.
I’m just going to share this because I think it illustrates how assumptions about someone’s relationship to identity can go wrong.
There’s a lot of overlap and while there are things outside of the center region that align with one but not the other, there are a lot on the middle. In real life these boundaries are way more fuzzy. So I’m not saying you’re necessarily wrong but there is a lot of nuance and fuzziness that makes it much less concrete in real life.
I’m not trying to say that trans people enforce gender stereotypes, I apologize if I came off as trying to say that but I’m not. I am saying that Egging as a behavior, especially the aggressive variety does. I have edited the original to clarify what I mean and I apologize for any miscommunication.
Again you speak about it like it is concrete, when it is only an assumption. That is the core root of problems in egg culture. Assumptions that could be correct, but also could just as easily be wrong. Since at the end of the day other people don’t know us the way we know ourselves.
It is a very big problem that largely goes unnoticed unfortunately. Speaking about your concern, the Egg Prime Directive in its charitable form is significantly different than what you describe. Since under that being supportive and educating people on the existence of gender identities and making them feel safe is allowed and even encouraged. It is not the same as sitting back and doing nothing. It is supporting them, making them aware but not taking away their autonomy.
Except it isn’t an argument in the other direction, it is by in large an argument to allow people to have autonomy over their identities and identification, and to support them by giving them as much information as possible to help them discover themselves on their own. It does not mean ignoring them or keeping them in the dark. Not in the slightest. Maybe many incomplete or uncharitable interpretations have said or implied that, but it is far from the intention of having something like this. The intention is to make people feel comfortable and safe, and not like someone else is trying to arbitrate their identity for them.
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Ok I hope you feel better, things can be hard but hopefully in the future things can get better. I’m still holding out hope they will eventually. I’m sorry you didn’t have a good day, hopefully your day tomorrow is better