Looking at these comments: so now liberals love nuclear weapons?
Not trusting Russia used to be bipartisan.
This isn’t something you should be proud of lol
Bilateral denuclearization agreements with Russia used to be bipartisan, too.
Russia hadn’t started invading it’s neighbors to steal resources.
wat…
Not really, you people just killed and imprisoned anyone that wasn’t racist towards Russians for years until there wasn’t anyone outwardly neutral or positive towards Russia.
Americans are ruled by a politics of opposition. Anything Trump does, the opposite must be good. Anything Biden does, the opposite must be good. Nobody thinks about anything from scratch.
Denuclearizing worked out so well for Ukraine.
Having less nukes is not the same as disarmament it’s not even comparable. They dropped two nukes and did that much destruction in Japan, 2, and those were 1940s nukes, even with this change the US would still have thousands of nukes.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-many-nuclear-weapons-exist-and-who-has-them/
the United States admits to having 5,550
Ukraine went to 0 nukes, the US has 5000+ nukes, how would that even be comparable if the US let’s say went down to 1000 nukes. That’s still 1000 nukes more than 0.
Nukes wouldn’t have saved them from being couped
Since this actually sounds like a good decision… Over/under on Trump promising to double the amount of nukes and turn China into a nuclear wasteland unless they do something for him, by the end of next week?
I don’t know gambling metrics and terminology, so I’ll just answer “yes.”
didn’t Trump pull out of the last denuclearization treaty?
I was gonna make a joke about this being the thing that finally makes Democrats fight Trump… But then I saw all the pro-nuke .world comments. We’re so cooked
USA have absolutely abysmal records of upholding nuclear disarmament so IF it is even a serious proposition, the reason for it it’s the quickly incoming time when Minutemen missiles will have to be decomissioned while its replacement is so much overbudget and overtime that it seriously risk scrapping of entire project. Meaning the perspective USA will lose main part of its strategic armament is real.
Also you never, ever trust USA on any nuclear deals.
Also let’s not forget that the US is literally hiring Elon Musk to help then “win” the nuclear war, their words not mine.
How anyone can think their denuclearization proposal is in good faith is beyond me.
I’ll believe it when I see it. Military spending increased in his first term and talk is cheap.
If he actually followed through on cutting the military budget by half, it’d be an incredible move and I’d start considering him the lesser evil. But it’s all for show, it’s triangulation to appeal to certain groups. End of the day, he’s a right winger and right wingers won’t cut the military.
Denuclearization is a good thing.
Yes it’s a good thing, but the US is utterly devoid of honour and trustworthiness and there’s no chance they will actually follow through with denuclearizing their own arsenal, so this proposal is meaningless and no country should take it seriously.
True. The US is the only country that ever used them and the only country where politicians regularly threaten to use them. Somehow though they get to act as if they are the only ones that can be trusted with them.
No it’s not. Maybe you haven’t heard but there is a war in Ukraine. They gave up nukes in exchange for pinky swear promises that their sovereignty would be respected.
I dont care if you think Ukraine couldn’t use them or if they would have been invaded if they didn’t agree. The Ukraine war is a giant fucking advertisement for owning nukes.
The only thing psychotic hairless apes understand is immense violence. We are not civilized. We are cavemen with atom bombs and spaceships.
Every country should own nukes. Every country without nukes doesn’t matter and is ripe for exploitation or invasion.
Everyone who downvoted you were wrong and you were right about having nuclear weapon. The whole damn point of nuclear weapon is to raise the cost of going to war with said country so that nobody ever fucking try to go and start a war. This is single-handedly the biggest contributor to the longest period of peace in our history. We would’ve already been well in our way to WW5 or WW6 if we didn’t have nukes.
I thought Lemmy might be different, but it’s astroturfed to hell.
Is this “period of peace” in the room with us right now?
I thought Lemmy might be different, but it’s astroturfed to hell.
tfw you find a place that isn’t astroturfed as much and are shocked to find your totally organic opinion is devalued
This is single-handedly the biggest contributor to the longest period of peace in our history.
…
It’s just .ml that’s weird like this
Every country should own nukes.
I agree with this.
I’m sure they will denuclearize in the same way North Korea did after Trump negotiated.
Why would North Korea denuclearize when the US still hasn’t?
But Trump made a deal. The best deal in the history of deals.
Did the US uphold its end of the deal?
As far as I remember, the US interpreted “their end of the deal” differently than NK did.
That’s exactly my point: Trump will “negotiate” the same way, will brag about a “deal” in the same way, and nothing will change in the same way, because both sides aren’t really interested in substantial change in the same way.
As far as I remember, the US interpreted “their end of the deal” differently than NK did.
And they will do it again. And again and again and again.
Deals with the US aren’t worth the paper they’re written on.
Deals with the US aren’t worth the paper they’re written on.
The ethnic cleansing of North America happened one treaty at a time.
https://www.history.com/news/native-american-broken-treaties
It is nominally a good thing. In the real world, however, I’d be working as hard as possible to ensure I had a nuclear program to discourage specifically Donald, Putin, and Elon
Those three aren’t as bad as Netanyahu and he too has nuclear weapons.
so he is about to sell america out. good luck, voters
i guess ill look forward to /conservativeMemes about how bending the knee is is a good thing.
“hUrRr rUsSiA sTaNdS fOr PeAcE iN eUrOpE”
Yeah with all the ways he seems to be actively trying to ruin the country I wouldn’t be the slightest bit surprised to see him have the US do it first and then the others “can follow” after they see we did it.
Except what they’ll follow with are nukes aimed at us to ensure we can never get in their ways again. :/
downvote? how about explaining.
Not the downvoter, but how about you explaining how restarting nuclear disarmament talks is selling out the American people?
The world is closer to nuclear war now then ever in history. It is now 89 seconds to midnight
Simple, without nukes we’ll have war, real war, real dead Americans. Most of the reason the doomsday clock is so close right now, is because of Trump. His flippant bullshit about Gaza enraged the Arab world, stepping them closer to nuclear war. His attempts at peace in Ukraine, without involving the Ukrainians, is more likely to cause Ukraine to escalate. His defense secretary just told the Russian’s they could defeat the US Navy. Definitely bullshit, but also makes Russia think they can start more shit, probably starting a wider war with NATO.
What is this, noncredibledefense?
Really? How well did throwing away nukes go for Ukraine?
Irrelevant. This is about multilateral nuclear arms reduction, not unilateral nuclear disarmament.
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_disarmament#Arms_reduction_treaties
- Council on Foreign Relations: The History of Nuclear Proliferation
And every step closer, is a step closer to death. Nuclear weapons are a tigers tail. When we let go, we all die.
Having less nukes is not the same as disarmament it’s not even comparable. They dropped two nukes and did that much destruction in Japan, 2, and those were 1940s nukes, even with this change the US would still have thousands of nukes.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-many-nuclear-weapons-exist-and-who-has-them/
the United States admits to having 5,550
Ukraine went to 0 nukes, the US has 5000+ nukes, how would that even be comparable if the US let’s say went down to 1000 nukes. That’s still 1000 nukes more than 0.
Every step closer to disarmament bring us closer to nuclear war. Every nuke disarmed makes us one step closer to Putin or Xi thinking they can win a nuclear war.
Simple, without nukes we’ll have war, real war, real dead Americans.
As opposed to dead everyone? Maybe consider that infinite war isn’t the default state of a normal country.
Most of the reason the doomsday clock is so close right now, is because of Trump.
Lmao not even fucking close. It was Obama who prepared this particular powder keg, it was Biden who set it off, it was Biden playing chicken with the nukes, and it was also Biden commissioning reports desperately looking for a scenario where he could let the fucking bombs fly.
I know libs like to pretend they live in a James Bond movie but Russia isn’t interested in a protracted conflict with Europe, it’s been trying to integrate their economy with them for over 30 years and the US keeps sticking its dick in the punch bowl.
If we draw down, between the number of nukes we have now, and 0, there will be a global war. The actual number of nukes won’t matter, humanity will be at risk of extinction.
The only ones at fault for where we are now are the GoP and Trump. They’ve destabilized the Middle East by supporting Israels settlements, taken every dime from Putin to do his bidding for decades, tore up Pacific treaties to stop Xi, while doing every thing they can to get Iran to give them a pretense to invade.
Do you draw your theories from any actual school of geopolitics/international relations, or are you just winging it?
Because it seems like you’re your flying solo in your own paranoid mind palace, completely divorced from material reality.
How about all of human history. It’s never worked out well for the larger hegemony to reduce itself to the benefit of adversaries.
Nuclear weapons didn’t prevent Ukraine. We just got closer to annihilation than ever.
Nuclear weapons didn’t prevent Ukraine.
If you know even a single thing about Ukraine’s history as an independent country, you know this comment is completely braindead and oozing with irony.
Russia was willing to risk nuclear war by fighting nuclear powers in Ukraine. If Ukraine had nukes maybe we’d just have the apocalypse.
Nuclear weapons didn’t prevent Ukraine
They sure at shit would have.
Putin only invaded because Ukraine voluntarily disarmed after promises of protection from the US.
And the threat of all those Western nuclear powers in Ukraine didn’t make Putin blink. Instead we just got closer to nuclear war than any time in recent memory.
America has already been sold out. Almost every year, no matter who’s in charge, the military gets bigger while everything else gets cut. The only people who benefit from it are military contractors and politicians. Of all the many wars since WWII, not one of them has actually benefitted ordinary people, and a lot of them have made the lives of ordinary people much worse for no reason. But because it’s what the rich want, there’s complete bipartisan support for it. People are struggling more and more every day to access education, healthcare, even basic necessities, while even our infrastructure is falling apart, but we have an endless supply of bombs and weapons, spending more on that than the next 9 countries combined.
If you actually care about US security, you should support cutting the military in favor of domestic spending, because at this point, who’s going to stick their neck out to protect such a dysfunctional system? But no, even the supposedly “left-leaning” party is fully on board with militarism and jingoism while the core rots. To the point of attacking conservatives from the right over it!
As I say in my other comment in this thread, Trump isn’t actually going to cut the military, he increased military spending in his first term and will most likely do so again. However, because of insane liberals who somehow still believe in “benevolent interventionism” even after Iraq and Afghanistan, Trump is able to triangulate and pick up antiwar, libertarian types who can’t see through his act. Liberals do everything in their power to help him by openly supporting militarism and denouncing anyone who opposes it as a “Russian bot” (or similar), regardless of their reasons.
The bizarre thing is how someone can square the circle of angrily opposing military cuts while not recognizing that they’re a right-winger.
love me a foreign asset president.
An American does something bad I’m America in an American way:
Liberals: “this is the fault of foreigners!”
Trump is but a figurehead.
Yeah, for an American fascist movement
I’d say, of the ruling class. Said fascist movement being basically a stage production of their creation. Said neutered opposition (Democrats) likewise being a stage production of their creation.
People often disagree with this framing, but honestly, spend a few years comparing viewing events through this lens vs through the D vs R lens. Things will make a lot more sense.
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This is why I blocked .world
So what’s gonna happen when a finger on the monkey’s paw curls for this?
As much as I hate it, the doctrine of mutual destruction seems to work. The removal of it might lead to immediate hot world war
“We’re all spending a lot of money that we could be spending on other things that are actually, hopefully much more productive,” Trump said.
🫨
Like lining the pockets of me and my owners while systematically weakening the country
That’s the sad part. They only get the first half right. 😂
Everyone’s perspective is the same on Lemmy it seems or close and its getting old so much snide comments and negativity. We all should consider this a win regardless of how goofy any side is, its the thought that this approach is reaching the decision makers. Planting the seed.
I think this is likely one of the smartest things Trump has ever persued if it comes to fruition even partially a mere slither. The modern battlefield is fought with technology. Using drones/robots and infosec psyop and the list goes on and on.
Conventional war has more risk than worth now days leaves nothing but a pile of rocks nothing to claim but dirt.
While I don’t think anyone will give them up soon sure even bad actors will hodl old means eventually the value prop and cost to maintain will sputter out, we all should know we have been heading that direction for a very long time. Progress no matter how small is a step in the right direction.
You can trust Lemmy for serious and well informed political analysis!
But seriously though,I agree with you. Lemmy doesn’t seem to have heard of SALT treaties and act as though there is no precedence. While not perfect, it is better than nothing.
When orange man starts talking about denuclearization agreements
What he actually wants is denuclearization for only China and Russia so the US can use its unchecked nuclear force to threaten the world.
