I hate people who treat them like some toys and fantasize about them. That makes me think they are in some sort of death cult. That they found socially acceptable way to love violence.
I would still get one for safety but it is a tool made for specifically one thing. To pierce the skin and rip through the inner organs of a person.
They can serve a good purpose but they are fundamentally grim tools of pain and suffering. They shouldn’t be celebrated and glorified in their own right, that is sick. They can be used to preserve something precious but at a price to pay.
I would have considered this the popular opinion, but it seems I’m the odd one out. The comments here defending it are hard to read.
Like, Farmers and Hunters: You know you are like 8% of the population at most, right? Killing animals should have maybe been mentioned as an alternative use for guns, sure, but come on: most gun nuts, as most people in general, are city folk. They buy a gun to shoot or threaten to shoot people exclusively.
That’s not an impopular opinion, that’s the opinion of normal people, firearms are not toys, unless you are in murica of course; then it’s like a Barbie, you buy the Barbie itself and then collect all the accessories
No, only some are and even then it’s not broadly accurate, it’s closer to Anthropomorphism.
Weapons are designed from the ground up to kill animals. From birdshot 10g shotgun to bolt action plastic tip single shot rifle.
Assault rifles are a category designed primarily to kill humans
Killing animals is pretty shitty as well though
I’m about as left as they come but weirdly enough I’m also a hunter, and I have to disagree, the guns I own are tools designed for specific purposes that aren’t killing humans. Hunting turkey, hunting deer, hunting duck, I even have a muzzleloader for that season, and a gun for back packing and hunting out of a saddle in a tree.
Hunting IMO is way more sustainable and ethical than buying store bought meat and it connects me with nature and let’s me first hand observe, appreciate, value, and want to protect ecology of my area.
It’s a very American viewpoint. Many countries in Europe have high gun ownership and manage to do so without murdering eachother.
That is a very American excuse. The US has 120 guns per 100 people, Europe’s highest, Serbia, which had a literal civil war not 2 decades ago, has 40.
The US has a gun problem.
I actually know a few Serbs personally and the 40 guns per 100 people definitely refers to legally acquired and nationally registered guns. And doesn’t include the Kalashnikovs picked up after the war and kept by people’s grandmother’s.
Honestly I don’t even see guns as a terribly effective method of mass murder. If I were to want to take out a large number of people, I’d use a Timothy McVeigh style truck bomb. Fertiliser and diesel are comparatively cheap in any country. Or you know I could just grab a kitchen knife and probably take out around a fair number of people.
The difference is that Americans have a hard-on for violence. America has a serious mental health problem. You just elected litteral fascists to the Whitehouse to stop trans girls from taking a shit in a public bathroom, so don’t pretend that y’all are mentally healthy.
This seems like a very urban viewpoint. There are still places in the world and in the US in particular where a firearm is tool for safety that has nothing to do with other humans.
Not to mention hunting is a thing.
No, it’s just that rural people expect their opinions to count more, as though their lifestyles are more authentic or honorable.
And where exactly is it that a firearm is necessary to protect from wildlife? Kodiak Island?
As far as the safety argument goes, let’s examine Police. The number one cause of “in the line of duty” fatalities is auto accidents, the second is heart disease, with COVID jockeying for position. If guns were a prophylactic, you’d expect them to shoot cheeseburgers and their cruisers. But as Richard Pryor observed: “Cops don’t kill cars…”
Counterpoint: cities shouldn’t exist
There should be a commission that caps the local human population at sustainable levels
Cities are a way better way of sustainably housing our population than suburban or rural sprawl. We get to be a lot more space efficient by living in multistory housing, having public transportation, etc.
Counterpoint: we don’t need to be that space efficient, and are better off in smaller communities
With the amount of people existing, yes we do. Otherwise there will be no nature left.
A firearm is necessary literally anywhere that has predators, unless you want to have all your livestock killed.
Also necessary if a tweaker decides on a midnight visit, as the police are half an hour or more away.
That’s not an unpopular opinion IMO.
Gotta resist fascism somehow
You already had a coup and nobody is using guns to stop it.
How’s that working out for ya?
Luigi did more with three bullets than peaceful protest has accomplished in the last 25 years.
I’m curious what you think he’s accomplished. Cause the dead guy was replaced immediately with someone just as evil, and the anesthesia coverage thing you all love to claim was already in the works weeks before Luigi.
Nothing changed. It’s still business as usual for health insurance companies.
You saw damn near the whole country coming out in support of Luigi and gaining more class consciousness seemingly overnight. Imagine that power of mass organization being used to, say, organize a general strike.
Even most Trump supporters voted for him because they were/are going through economic struggle, and Trump (and decades of right wing propaganda) was able to successfully brainwash these people into pointing the finger at immigrants and trans people instead of the obvious culprit (billionaires).
It’s not too difficult to help someone come to the conclusion that billionaores are the problem if they’re struggling financially.
Obviously, you have the Trump supporters who specifically support him (and continue to) because he’s a fascist leader who has Nazi idiology that they agree with, but I think that’s a (very, very vocal) minority of his supporters.
He wiped out 6 months of UHC stock price gains overnight and caused Cigna to commit to expanding their accountability, transparency and customer service departments and tie executive compensation to customer satisfaction metrics.
What did peaceful protest get you in the last two decades? Romneycare is all I can think of and the insurance mandate was a huge step backwards that wipes out any benefit that might be seen from the mandatory coverage for pre-existing conditions.
Cigna was already doing all of that.
Source: used to work there, have friends that still do, including execs
Just a few nits: he did cause the price to drop, but it’s not as significant as you make it sound. Their price had just spiked up to all time highs, and it dropped down to where it was before the spike.
The drop wasn’t even out of proportion with the fluctuations the price normally has seen over recent history.
Finally, stock price falling doesn’t actually get us anything. If anything, it’ll make them more aggressive about costs to bolster the earnings sheet to get the price back up.
I’d focus on the “spotlight on the dark situation” side of things, and how making the insurance companies aware that we’re mad enough to kill them and laugh at their death means we might actually be getting close to mad enough to institute a program that saves us money and pays for more treatment of higher quality for more people.
Hopefully, he encouraged other people to carry on his work.
“Bum bum pif paf” is a childish, almost cartoonish way of resistance. If you’re a serious person, you understand that while certain actions may sometimes be necessary, celebrating or eagerly anticipating them is disturbing. Additionally, such actions are rarely the real solution to a problem.
People who fantasize about violence write things like this not because they want to solve anything, but because they’re looking for an excuse to act out and release their anger.
Wow you really project a lot onto one short sentence. Ignoring any reference to historical resistance in order to feel superior about your views.
Gun defenders are always like this. Historical this, historical that but in truth they just want a license to kill.
I know that on Lemmy there are many bloodthirsty motherfuckers who just go to sleep imagining saving the world with a smoking 92fs. Not because it would help anyone but because they are kinky like that
Well that’s an awfully specific gun reference for someone who hates them so much.
FWIW I don’t believe you are wrong. Most people advocating for/ fantasizing about violence have never experienced prolonged conflict. Sure, you’re hot shit the first day or two but even if the fighting stays a few hundred miles away, it becomes exhausting and sickening. Especially if you have a family to worry about.
All of this said, it is not the only reason to own a gun. Many own weapons for the purpose of self defense — whether that be from other people or wildlife. We own guns because we are afraid — justifiably or not.
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Oh, by all means, give that a try, see how it goes. I’d say “and then report back”, but… you know, that wouldn’t be much use.
I have a feeling that the “punch the nazies” people who are the loudest online are the ones nowhere to be found when the shit actually hits the fan. The ones who actually would aren’t talking about it on social media and especially not on Lemmy.
it is a tool made for specifically one thing. To pierce the skin and rip through the inner organs of a person.
This isn’t true. I live in a country with sensible gun control laws and live on a rural property with 10 acres of forest. We have a small rifle to protect the wildlife against rabies or to put down an injured animal.
The US conversation around guns is toxic.
If I can get excited for a cordless Bosch track saw, I can get excited for a nice gun. Guns have served two purposes in my life - target shooting with friends and the meat I get from hunting. I don’t need to take on someone elses trauma and stop enjoying something to respect what they are.
I don’t think that’s an unpopular opinion, although I’d detach the violence from people.
Guns are weapons specifically designed as tools of violence. Some are for designed with animal hunting in mind, some for hurting people, and some for target sports, which are ultimately derived from the other two.
Like any tool, how people intend to use it matters, as well as how they expect to use it and how they prepare to use it.
I will easily judge people based on those factors.
Separating the tool from the use also lets us be a little more objective in our discussions about how we want to regulate the tool. “This type of weapon poses an undue risk to surrounding people in this context, so you can’t have it in this context”.I think just about every gun owner I’ve met agrees with the sentiment if you get rid of the “against people” part.
I’ve played shooter games since a kid and I’ve never wanted to own a gun. it’s 100% a special kind of brainrot/power trip to want to hold and own deadly weapons and you won’t convince me otherwise
yes hunting is a thing, I promise you the vast majority of American gun owners are not hunters.
I can appreciate guns from a technical design standpoint. Some of them can look good. I’d even consider owning an inert USFA Zip .22 as an example of spectacularly bad product design. (I’m a UI/UX guy and the total lack of consideration for ergonomics is fascinating to me.)
I have no desire to own a functioning gun, though. Very few people really need one.
Thank you! You have a way with words.
They are engineered from the ground up to take lives
of other people.I have no love for guns, but hunting for food is the reason humans created weapons in the first place. To your point, I’m pretty sure slaughterhouses aren’t using fully automatic rifles on the killing floor.
I am afraid I am not a big animal lover myself but I respect those who are. However for me human life is most important.
My point is more about the justification of firearms. It’s easy for me to forget as a city-dweller, but there are still many people who hunt for their food.
There are what I feel neutral guns and more dark guns. For example sport guns shooting .22 LR do not trigger me so to say. Maybe because I used to be a sport shooter when young. Hunting guns also. But HK MP5? Well it has no other purpose. It exists to inflict as much damage in the shortest amount of time to a human body.
You’ve never been hog hunting, I guess. Sometimes you need the ability to fire a lot of bullets quickly, and it has nothing to do with killing people.
I am sure they are made for hog hunting. “Hog hunt today with HK”
I mean, fully automatic weapons are illegal without a tax stamp in the US, and modern automatics aren’t allowed to be sold to civilians.
I’ve always looked at them from a utility/engineering/sport perspective. I have no intent of ever carrying a weapon, but the training it takes to learn how to target practice, and the engineering that goes into them are incredibly fascinating.
I don’t encourage people to own guns and I don’t have any myself, but I really wish target practice didn’t have to share a platform with a killing machine.
Shooting and gun safety should be part of gym class for every student in the country.
target practice didn’t have to share a platform with a killing machine.
The problem is that, I may be wrong but for the most gun enthusiasts it is a feature and not a flaw.
You’re wrong
You can target practice with air guns. Some can still kill, but it’s what Olympians use in their target sport.
For sure, they are fun to learn and to use. I’ve done safety training and target shooting several times and briefly considered taking it up as a hobby. However the nearest gun club didn’t offer lockers or rentals, and there was no way a weapon was going to be in my house
Counterpoint:
Okay but this is a movie. If you aren’t below certain age you do not mistake this with reality
It’s not that such situations never happened but they weren’t anywhere as
inglorious and cool. Yeah some brain went on the walls. Someone shat themselves in pre death agony uttering incredible smell, someone went deaf from shooting in a small room and got killed right after. It’s just not that coolThere are sooo many cool things why killing each other must be the stuff some ppl find so exciting. It happens and it’s messy and grim. There’s nothing exciting about our innards. It’s fucking disgusting and revolting even
Oh sure, violence is awful, traumatizing and cruel.
But if you think that you must be a child to mistake violence with reality, than I’d say that you are actually the one with the priveleged, childlike view of the world.
I agree that guns should not be fetishized, that that is a dangerous sign of immaturity, but guns are a useful and prevalent tool.
You can’t just wish them out of existence.
Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary.
- Karl Marx
When they kick at your front door
How you gonna come?
With your hands on your head
Or on the trigger of your gun?
- Paul Simonom
I do apologize for any strife of traumas but it had to be done. Frankly, these parasites simply had it coming.
- Luigi Mangione
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.
- John F. Kennedy
Politcal power grows from the barrel of a gun.
- Mao Tzetung
Yes. This is also nutty and I don’t think you can manage to change my mind. All the violent lemmings are a creepy. You are disturbing.
Even my country which struggled with communism for years, freed itself from the red oppression not by violence but by peaceful negotiations after mass worker strikes.
I know you lot. You pretend to want to solve problems but deep inside you just want to kill someone and get away with it. I have no respect for you.
I don’t even own a gun, but uh ok?
I’ve worked at non profits to house the homeless, for years. Could have made a lot more money in a corporate job, but I eschewed that in favor of doing actual good in the world.
I’ve been homeless, been robbed and beaten by people with guns, dodged a drive by shooting by 20 or 30 feet, been held against my will, without charges, by armed agents of the state for simply existing while honeless, been held captive by a madman and beaten for a week straight.
I have firearms training, because I grew up around guns, but I’ve never owned a gun.
I have martial arts training, and I’ve only ever used it to defend myself and others; never once have I instigated a random assault, but I’ve broken up a few.
My country is the most armed country on the planet, and it’s currently undergoing a fascist coup.
But please, do go on about the revolution your parents had, and the comfy, detached from reality moral structure its allowed you develop.
Tell the Ukranians defending their country how guns are evil and they should just roll over and accept assimilation.
Tell the Palestinians to stop resisting and just allow themselves, their people, to be wiped off the face of the earth.
Meanwhile, leftist demonstrations in my country have been terrorized by openly armed right wing militias and terrorists for years, been black bagged and arrested by armed secret police.
But I’m sure you’re quite fine telling victims of armed violence that they’re actually the guilty ones for pointing out the basic underlying fact that all politics and laws are only as meaningful as the monopoly on violence that enforces them, and that guns are the most common and direct tool in that trade.
Sorry but your experiences are meaningless here. It’s the basic fundamental thing not some comfort. Wherever you are advocating for violence, you will meet me opposing you.
I will always be there.
You and I will never meet.
EDIT: I gave you my personal experiences because you made a personal claim about me, that I am violent, that I want to kill someone.
Not because its relevant to the larger idea about guns.
You made it personal, you became judgemental, and gaslit met.
Yeah, you and I will never meet, I’ve suffered knowing far too many manipulative, sanctimonious gaslighters in my life.
Hope all your friends enjoy you victim-blaming them as much as I have.
You will meet hundreds like me. Not quite me but just like me. And you will keep meeting them and they will say exactly same thing. They are me and you will meet me in each of them.
