I don’t know why people didn’t riot when Republicans denied Obama a supreme court nomination because of it being his last year but allowed Trump to nominate one weeks before the elections.
We all know what the objectively most ethically and morally righteous course of action would be right now.
We also know that if we DID that, the fascists will kill us, our entire families, anyone we associate with, and then use it as an excuse to murder even more innocent people who have never had anything to do with us.
The right is just ITCHING for a Reichstag Fire Moment which they can point at and say
“OPE, look at that TERRORISM happening right over there! You know what that means: Time to OFFICIALLY (not just casually!) suspend civil liberties and call in the private security shock troops and drone strikes to put down these VIOLENT ANTI-AMERICAN ENEMY COMBATANT DOMESTIC TERRORISTS!!! And for all their sympathizers, time to punch some tickets for the GITMO EXPRESS!”
I thought it would happen by mid-march but now i’m concerned it might happen even SOONER.
look. the law has failed. the law will not protect us. the law will actively attack us and label us as “criminals” for defending ourselves while turning a blind eye to our fascist aggressors. I don’t know what anyone else should do, but here’s what I’m doing:
- I have a small emergency fund saved up stashed in cash at a secure location.
- I have my identifying documents in order in case I get the ‘papers please’ treatment.
- I have survival supplies in my bug-out go-bag that i carry on my person everywhere i go
- I have data backups, peripherals, and all my digital devices that I can’t live without packed
- I’m HOPING I still have time to legally (for whatever that’s worth now) arm myself.
- I’m maintaining the outward appearance of a cis het white dude so I can navigate mostly unnoticed.
- I’m attempting to locate and join an underground railroad as a conductor to help targeted people evacuate via providing transportation, shelter, nutrition, paperwork assistance, communications advocacy, and possibly even the covering of some costs provided the entire financial system doesn’t collapse.
- Failing that I’m reaching out to friends across the country to set up a means to locate and offer aid to at-risk individuals directly.
- I’m also asking international friends about their countries’ immigration policies, to see if I can get in touch with advocates within other borders to streamline the process for people who want to escape this backwater shithole of a country.
Gods know I won’t be able to escape…
but the possibility that I might be able to help others,
and reminding myself that I can’t help anyone if i’m dead,
is the single biggest thing (among a fair few others) keeping me going.Ye, seeing a legit the Reichstag Fire moment would be terrifying. And the USA wasn’t above that shit even 50 years ago.
well, keep in mind, it doesn’t even have to be legitimate.
It can be extremely illegitimate >_>
in fact, I am kind of expecting it to be an illegitimate, manufactured, sensationalized false flag spectacle that exists solely to provide them with an excuse to accelerate.
unless those are the factors that define a “legitimate reichstag” x_x;
well, keep in mind, it doesn’t even have to be legitimate.
Remember the Maine.
I used ‘legit’ in the colloquial sense, as in “actual”
ok yeah that tracks ._. either way, i would be more surprised if one didn’t happen at this point.
Actually, it’s only like this because people didn’t vote. Soap, ballot, jury, ammo: they say to use the boxes in this order…
Do you think that if more people voted they would have voted for Democrats?
I do. I think all the Trump people put in the work and showed up. The people who didn’t bother to show probably would have leaned toward making their own lives better instead of other people’s lives worse.
Have you spoken to anyone who didn’t vote and really listened to them?
Many times. Although they are often drunk so maybe it doesn’t count? Or maybe it’s unfiltered and true. The folks who didn’t vote really see all options as corrupt and want the end of this dumb story but they would pick the option that caused less pain if they were already in the booth.
I think in swing states, the turn out was greater than in 2020. Harris got more votes than Biden. But, obviously, Trump got more than Harris. People who sat out in 2020 came out for Trump. Following what you’ve shared, it’s because they saw Trump as the option that caused less pain.
All of this makes sense to me. I don’t know how the voters who sat out in 2024 would have otherwise come out for Harris.
Uh, yeah. And it wasn’t “for democrats”, or even for Harris. Everyone was saying for months that Trump was an imminent threat to our democracy and had fascist ambitions.
Now, ::Pikachu face:: as he does fascist things and is eroding our democracy. MAGAts are wrong and cruel and bad, but at least they bother to vote…
I don’t think this bothers them. If they did, they would have voted. For months people said this was going to happen. And now it’s happening.
congress has been abnormally silent. just a fucking ghost town.
Democrats have announced that they’re going to make a statement at 3:45pm EST today or something. Our government is actively in the middle of a coup, and they’re “going to make a statement.”
I’m sure it’ll be some finger wagging, and that’s about it.
Oh, that’s not all they’ll do. There will also be some strongly worded letters.
They are actively managing their insider trading before it all goes tits up.
Liberals are sort of, fundamentally incapable of understanding that the republican voter is more than just like, some stereotypical idiot white southerner, or self-interested multi-millionaire, I think. They’re incapable of understanding that republican voters can often be some of the more marginalized in society. The disabled, and migrants, as we’ve seen. Dumb people, even, right, people with less education. Explicitly, explicitly this is the case, they bring it up all the time! As though that lack of education is some sort of moral failing, or thing to poke fun at. They don’t understand that conservatives will rightly point out that sort of mockery and call them cruel elitists. It takes this cruel and apathetic stance towards those groups, this unempathetic stance that has no interest in understanding how we got there, this incurious stance. It’s so overly moralized, to the point of incoherence. Well, that disabled person or migrant voted for trump, so, FAFO, they deserve to die, I guess. What am I to do? Well, looks like the palestinian voter in michigan decided not to vote, so, FAFO, guess their family is reserved to being buried under beachfront property. What am I to do?
It’s callous, it’s a self-callousing kind of reaction. It makes you number, and it makes you dumber. It’s cope, basically, I guess is what I’m saying. It’s a way to contend with a cruel reality by becoming crueler yourself.
It also has some intersection with two things. This assumption of free will, and thus a kind of innate moral character and disposition, a constant internal moral agency for all your actions, and so there’s obviously something it inherently shares there with liberalism philosophically, right.
It also, in the positive rhetoric, has an intersection with this sort of, political armchair jockeying, where everyone theorizes that rhetorical moves are being made by politicians for some theoretical person out there that isn’t them, but the fundamental character of the party is still agreeable, and okay. You can’t question the party’s positioning on Gaza. Even if you can cede that it’s immoral, explicitly, then it has to be done because it’s electorally advantageous. I don’t understand how they can’t see how this alienates a ton of people right off the bat, because it shows that you’re willing to do things which are actively morally detestable and still not win. It’s never the case for policy which itself is a positive end, like healthcare, that they are willing to violate legal and political norms in order to take action on that. Or even, say, violating political norms in order to stop a genocide. It’s only that they’re willing to keep up a genocide in order to win electorally, and then whatever follows is sort of what you’re just supposed to get as a reward for sitting through 200,000+ people dying.
So I dunno, that all just pisses me off. I wish people could argue about actual tangible policy, and then pursue that unabashed as an unqualified good, rather than being tricked into believing that their own sense of good, their own goals, are naive, and they need to settle for more exploitation as the cost of doing business. It’s both a cope that makes you callous and it’s a nihilism that grinds you down. An apathy, in the face of politics.
I also don’t understand why in the political realm we have all been so reduced to viewing things purely in terms of like, whatever is within our black and white moral compass. So team-based. No attempt at nuance, understanding, or empathy. It’s insane, I think social media has truly kind of rotted people’s brains, in that respect, by shaping the contexts in which these kinds of interactions happen, reducing the means of people’s expression into pre-approved categories, into little sequestered realities. We’re maybe cooked cause of that, I don’t know.
There are plenty of people who are marginalized or lacking in education who don’t vote Republican because it doesn’t take a college degree to see that Trump tried to overthrow the government. Just because guys who are mad about not getting laid become neo-Nazis doesn’t mean the rest of us who are dealing with hardship do. Black people have been getting shit on since well before this country was even a country and they’re the most reliable Democratic demographic there is. Pretty much everyone has access to the internet and if they cared to learn about they world they could.
I mean, you can understand why black people have and have had historically a very unique position in this country as a kind of uniquely ostracized population, right? That’s not a 1 to 1 comparison we’d make in like, any other circumstance, I dunno why we’d start now. Effectively, what I’m saying is something that goes back quite a ways, you could come up with a lot of historical examples of this, it’s not new. Italian immigrants after ww2, eastern european immigrants, irish immigrants, even jewish immigrants to a certain extent, they were all able to be subsumed by the larger umbrella of whiteness precisely as they voted in accordance with more conservative interests which explicitly do not like them. The same thing that would have happened in this election with latinos, except we’ve run up on the rails of that process because things are materially different. What I’m saying is that it doesn’t really make sense to get mad at that voterbase for voting in that particular way.
The broader point I’m making is that there’s a difference between thinking about these things critically, and getting mad at the wind, and I see a lot of people getting mad at the wind. Except, unlike getting mad at the wind, their anger is actually harmful, actually creates a constant feedback loop in how it’s directed. Some people get mad at a dog for biting them. Certainly, it makes sense to get mad in general, since you’ve been bit, that’s painful, and the dog is the most directly at fault object for that. Some people get mad at the owner, since they can’t control their dog, you know, maybe that’s a step removed, maybe that’s even actually effective at preventing future bites, I dunno. Some people just start to move towards the medicine cabinet as soon as possible, so they can clean their bite. I would rather be the third person, in that example.
I have plenty of blame to go around, and I’d put people who voted for Trump after four years of him being president and trying to overthrow the government after only the fascists and the media that enable them. He’s not an unknown quantity anymore.
I know a lot of people in this country are dumb and selfish, but they don’t get off the hook because of that. Plenty of white people don’t vote for blatant racism, my parents grew up in a rural town in the “good old days” and figured it out.
but they don’t get off the hook because of that.
That’s precisely my problem, there. I don’t understand why people are “on the hook”, or what “the hook” even is. Why we entertain this idea that people even have any agency whatsoever, for one, right. Like, the inherent problem of free will, people will just reject that either at its face, and supplement it with absolutely nothing, or they will reject the core lesson at play there.
Like, if this “hook” manifested in terms of people going out and engaging in mutual aid, or resolving to live, out of a sense of keeping other people accountable through just their own living, their own existence, that’d be cool. I’ve seen some people actually do that, and that seems productive, sure, why not. Hell, if “the hook” manifested in people going out and starting to move luigi style, against the people that are enabling this in, order of magnitude, I’d be fine with that. Other forms of militant action would also be acceptable.
Instead, oftentimes “the hook” just manifests in a bunch of easy rhetorical owns that often aren’t even really productive for letting off steam. Probably because people aren’t really capable of any other form of agency, or “holding people accountable”, in their own lives, so they just resolve to like, making kind of aggressive twitter posts at people. That feels like fun and epic praxis, but it’s not, it actually actively serves a counterproductive purpose as it is manipulated by these larger algorithms. That’s the sort of thing that I’m talking about when I talk about, say, people FAFO-posting about how happy they are that conservative migrants are gonna get sent to the fucking death camps. There are liberals who are overjoyed at the irony in that idea, and I don’t think that serves to do anything but make people rightfully more bitter at that behavior.
Like, what’s the purpose of this “blame” here, what does it do? I don’t want to shoot myself in the foot just to spite someone else, is what I’m getting at.
I know nothing’s gonna come of me shitting on Trump voters but they get coddled by the media and they’re voting to kill all of us. I want everyone to have free housing and healthcare, including them, but I’m still fucking pissed that people with a third-grade education have made it so I have to flee the country. I was finally building a life and had a home for myself and I have to chuck that all out because there’s no way the gestapo doesn’t start rounding up trans people in the next few years.
You know, I think despite what I’ve all said, being mad is good. It drives people towards action, it’s just that I’m concerned about what said action is. I don’t want everyone to get trapped in another 2017 #resist spiral, and I don’t want us to fall into the trap of believing that feeding rhetorical owns to the algorithm in the form of content is some kind of valuable praxis. I don’t want everyone to just kind of, have their punches absorbed by this kind of non-newtonian fluid machine that we’ve been met with.
I do agree that they get kind of, coddled by the media, or maybe a better word is, infantilized. Current VP basically wrote a book which basically did just that and rode that to his current position. Of course, you know, it’s impossible to have these kinds of conversations with a lot of them, you know, it’s impossible to have conversations about what’s good to believe in, much less what to believe, much less what’s good, if you’re almost barely capable of talking in the first place.
In any case, I can empathize. I haven’t built anything out of my life, many of my friends haven’t really been afforded the opportunity either, especially those ones which are sort of, compoundingly less fortunate. I really worry that I won’t be able to do anything substantial for my trans friends, you know? I can get them DIY, I can host a couch surfer, but to not be able to really solve these things at any larger level is kind of a motherfucker. It’s depressing enough to look around at your own life and realize that everything is shit, it’s much more depressing to realize that’s also the case for everyone you know and care about, or is worse. I dunno. Depressing note to end on, but I guess that’s how it goes.
So team-based. No attempt at nuance, understanding, or empathy.
team-based???
In the sense that one team is fine dismantling our government and sending key demographics to camps or worse, and that’s not a team I’m willing to be on, yes I guess that makes me “team-based.”
I’m not going to have the Gaza argument here again other than to say I see where you are coming from, and although I disagree with it, I also understand why “Trump won’t be any better for Gaza” wasn’t enough of a reason for some to pull the lever for the Biden/Harris admin.
Maga has trampled all over anything resembling empathic discourse for oh, about 8-9 years, and the US right in general for years before that. The time for reconciliation was before they installed the dictator. Now that we’re all just descending into hell together atop the smoldering wreckage of our government, the folks I’m going to hug on the way down aren’t the ones who voted us here.
For fucking real. Are these pleas for nuance ever aimed at the people voting for real actual neo-Nazis, instead of the people the neo-Nazis are going after?
Are these pleas for nuance ever aimed at the people voting for real actual neo-Nazis, instead of the people the neo-Nazis are going after?
My point is that those people are often the same. We saw a lot of this in the immediate aftermath of the election, with people pointing towards the apparently shockingly large contingent of latino trump voters. These are people who will be explicitly targeted by the administration that they voted for, and many liberals are fully willing to turn around and blame them for their current circumstance, laugh at them, mock them, whatever. I kind of find that behavior disgusting, is what I’m getting at, basically. More than just being kind of, uncouth, in my mind, it’s unproductive. You’re not gonna win over a voter with which you would actually have much in common, with those methods. I think it’s easy to forget that in our current hyperpolarized social media age, the sort of, uninformed idiot centrist voter, even though they now have the pretense of being extremely informed and extremely radicalized after listening to two hour podcasts, they still exist. Those idiot bros now pretend to be super informed and edgy extremists, and we get that, again, even in your latino voters, but the fundamental lack of information still remains. These are just people who have been manipulated, they’re not actually real or substantial ideological opposition. They exist in this propagandized state, this eclectic and confused ideological ball of misinformation, as a kind of explicit rubber stamp for our current political landscape. Many of them can still be convinced.
We do need to break through the propaganda. It’s just frustrating being told to be nuanced with a huge chunk of people who either know what’s happening and don’t care, or have the ability to find out and don’t. I’m nuanced with people I know in real life, but talking about Trump voters in general, 🤷♀️
Empathy and nuance aren’t something that you do because you’re guaranteed to get something in return from the other person as a kind of, reciprocal action. They’re tools that you use to analyze your opposition, understand them better, and plan accordingly. They’re internally rewarding methods, rather than being something you just do to get a reward.
I think we’ve all understood it to be the case for quite a while now that plenty of conservatives, being relatively uninformed blank slate or single issue voters, will actually agree with communism, as long as you don’t use the word communism. Liberals, even, will not commonly do this, because they usually have much more pre-established and calcified opinions about the reasons why the world is the way that it is that go beyond just the surface level. That could even be considered a symptom of their higher education. We’ve understood that to be the case for like the last 20 years.
Why, then, is there still such a significant commitment towards mocking your rural conservative idiot voter, in the rhetoric of the left? I think there’s a lot of people who still hold onto some semblance of liberalism in their culture, their rhetoric, their attitudes, even after they become a part of the left. I think there’s probably also a significant proportion of actual liberals which, being controlled opposition, seeks exclusively to widen that divide and sort of, function as the pepsi to the coke, even as that strategy actively drives us towards more and more extremism and destroys the country. In any case, beyond the extremely cynical corporate institutional wing that actively desires for the country to be more right wing in service, at least theoretically, of tax breaks and a lack of regulations, or maybe more coherently, in service of short term gains, the regular individual should understand that this rhetoric, this strategy, it isn’t really getting them anywhere. It’s actively harmful. I think at some point with the individual participation in this behavior, people start to build up their own complexes around it, eerily similar to the complexes that conservatives begin to take, as I’ve described previously. A belief in a total and logic-defying free will, an innate moral character, meritocracy.
They fall for true liberalism. It shouldn’t be any mystery why I might not like that ideology, I should think. Not in my leftists, not in my liberals. We should understand that’s failed.
Why, then, is there still such a significant commitment towards mocking your rural conservative idiot voter, in the rhetoric of the left? I think there’s a lot of people who still hold onto some semblance of liberalism in their culture, their rhetoric, their attitudes, even after they become a part of the left. I think there’s probably also a significant proportion of actual liberals which, being controlled opposition, seeks exclusively to widen that divide and sort of, function as the pepsi to the coke, even as that strategy actively drives us towards more and more extremism and destroys the country.
Because I support policies that would help everyone, even “your rural conservative idiot voter” (your words), no matter how much disdain I have for their willingness to hurt everyone not like them. And that brings me to the point.
I could give a shit about them being rural. You won’t find me ever attacking them in a way that includes that facet of who they are. They support the party that is visibly, publicly, actively, destroying everything they claim to hold dear, AND they support the party who is ready and willing to do harm, big and small, to anyone outside a very specific demographic. In many cases, they are the people doing the harm, not just supporters of the people doing harm.
I can understand them just fine, from over here, where I will continue to keep myself and those who are dear to me out of their destructive path as best I can.
You’re not really who I’m talking about in my post, then. I agree with most of what you say. I was mostly talking about liberals who explicitly mock them, I was talking about “FAFO” shit, I dunno if you’ve seen it or not, but it’s become a prevalent reaction. Just the same as, say, when you see people online mocking the idea of a starbucks boycott because palestinians didn’t vote, right. Posing with their starbucks cups. Most of these people weren’t ever committed to a boycott, which, sure, fine. But it sees that sort of a politics as explicitly transactional, rather than being founded on just doing what’s right and good. That’s the sort of thing that I’m getting at, rather than people just, I dunno. Not going out of their way to talk to conservatives at all about their ideologies or try to convince them. I think people should do that still, sure, but I’m not going to personally fault people for not going out of their way to do that, or being like, explicitly focused more on the people immediately around them, and their safety.
You’re not really who I’m talking about in my post, then.
Ah good. It did feel lke we were talking past each other a bit.
I was talking about “FAFO” shit, I dunno if you’ve seen it or not
I have zero FAFO towards people who took a principled stand on Gaza with their vote. I really, really wish they hadn’t, but I understand why, and IIRC if they hadnt it wouldn’t have swung the election anyway.
OTOH, I do think the “Trump will be worse for Gaza” argument is proving true.
I have plenty of FAFO for your general bigoted shitstains who have proven (and continue to prove) that their commitment to the “values” they preached about for decades is entirely hollow. They are going down in this flaming wreckage with all the rest of us, and when they realize Trump isn’t just going to hurt the people they wanted hurt, it will do nothing but salve my own pain over seeing what they have done to our country.
That huge walll of text to try to say that those republicans are not all stupid. Have you met them? Do you have to work with them? Shop next to them? I call them the stupid 30% and they are stupid.
I live in the Midwest and I have not met a Republican that wasn’t a moron.
Sure there obviously are Republicans that aren’t morons. But they still voted with the MAGAts.
Republicans = moron or bigot
Either way you shouldn’t trust them.
If more people voted, this would not happen right now :) but both sides the same and voting doesnt matter.
Acting as if fascists did not nearly successfully couped the last time they lost the election is so much denial.
The people that voted last time got a goverment that could not stop a convicted felon, certified rapist, enemy goverment asset and obvious fascist from running again. They would not have been able to stop a fast nor a slow coup.
Literally the outcome of this election was guaranteed back in August. The second the Harris/Walz started polling at 50/50 was when a contested election became the best possible outcome, and a contested election was always going to be awarded to Trump through the captured Supreme Court.
I get that libs are disappointed that the country just gave him the keys without a fight, but Trump was prepared for that fight. It’s why they kept shouting that our election was a sham and already decided; they knew they would steal the election if necessary. Dems were never going to do anything to stop it, same as they did nothing for Gore vs Bush.
You’re right.
Why slow down the coup when you can just give up and let them announce a concentration camp for undesirable immigrants without any pushback?
Step 1: should have voted to stop the coup Step 2: should have voted for a slow coup Step 3: should have voted for a less fascist coup
We recreate the structures we seek to dismantle…
Don’t @ me I voted but the Democratic playbook has been to cede ground and take only clout back my whole life.
Like corporations and consumers the fault isn’t with the voter when the system is stacked against them and the options are two evils with one the lesser.
No what I mean is that everyone who want to stop facism should stop relying on groups and organisations that have a record of being ineffective when it comes to opposing and stopping the fascists.
Check out !inperson@slrpnk.net, !antifa@lemmy.ml and other Lemmy communities to find out about ways to oppose fascism without relying on the DNC.
The US has been pretty good at opposing fascists in the past.
We need the media to stop pussyfooting around and call a spade a spade. They’re working so hard to appear impartial that they’ve decided that reporting objective reality shows a liberal bias.
We were only reluctantly against facism during WW2. That’s why we didn’t join until halfway through and did business both sides before we were drawn in.
And by “opposing” I assume you mean “installing”.
Their loss wasn’t nearly so catastrophic as to make it clear they’re in the minority. The issue with democratic legitimacy is that it’s mostly about impression of consensus rather than pure numbers because humans suck at processing numbers. Sure, neither government might have the actual endorsement of the constituency, but it doesn’t matter if the voting portion of it is split closely enough that it seems like they do.
If, say, the Reps hat lost 30:70, they possibly wouldn’t have been quite so bold, and on the other hand, the Dem leadership might have felt more confident in opposing them. Moreover, reducing Rep significance to a footnote could create space for progressive movements to be more than a spoiler, which could give them more weight in the internal party politics.
Note, however, the abundance of “could” and “possibly” and “might”. The difficulty with counter-factuals is that you can’t really compare them to facts. It’s just as possible that nothing would have been different at all. Much of predicting politics and public opinion is guesswork based on incomplete information, and putting it to a representative test would probably be impossible and possibly dangerous.
As it stands, you’re unfortunately right.
It’s very funny to see people claiming to be anarchists ranting about “convicted felons” and “enemy governments”.
If thats a rant to you I am not quite sure how to actually answer that. And if using language and arguments that that the user person might actually be able to connect to makes one less anarchist, I wonder what kind anarchists you expect on Lemmy
But the people who stayed home because the democrats didn’t offer them a pony are noble and should be regarded with the utmost respect!
“Didn’t offer them a pony” doesn’t equate to “stop funding a genocide in Israel”. This level of callousness is exactly why people stayed home
If they thought genocide in Israel was bad, why did they make it worse and global?
If they cared about human rights, they’d be defending human rights. People who make matters worse out of spite are not the good guys. I wish they at least owned their awfulness instead of crying all over social media how people blame them for the things they actually did, when they themselves happily boasted about it just a month ago.
People didn’t abstain from spite, they abstained from a correct belief that the system doesn’t work for them, or they couldn’t vote against their conscience. Your own framing of lesser evilism and weighting voting more than other kinds of political activity inevitably creates the situation where people can’t just cast a vote strategically. You dismiss 3/4 of the picture in order to make a point based on only 1/4 of the information, in other words, you are distorting the truth to fit your narrative.
Politics often comes down to a struggle between two views, but your attempt to shunt anyone who didn’t vote the way you did into some enemy category is, predictably, no strategy at all. Unless your strategy is to divide the electorate, which sort of defeats your entire premise.
Actually try to understand other people as having minds and wills of their own, rather than narcissistically making your own view the objective one (like a religion might) and then condemning others (like a religion might) for their sins.
Their not voting created this situation in the first place. They wanted this situation. People who are hurt by this situation are rather justified in hating the people who put them into it. You say it’s because these people choose to do this on their own, because of their own free will. I agree with you on this. But THEIR justification in creating this situation does not fucking matter to others. It does not matter if somebody stabs you in the back because they hate you or because they are trying to make a point or out of boredom or out of some philosophical whatnot, what matters to you is that you have a knife sticking out of your back and bleeding to death. And when you turn around, what you see is your attacker crying a river about their right to stab you and why are you blaming them? It’s not like THEY hate you like THOSE other guys!
Fact is that if they voted for the other side, they would have a perfectly stable democracy (lol, not really) where they could then campaign for stuff they want without the world being on fire around them. Which btw, they aren’t doing with the word being on fire around them either, but if they did it now, they’d be wiped off it by the powers they put into place.
Your “leaders” created this situation in the first place by refusing to even acknowledge the concerns of those voters, much less address them.
It would be far more reasonable for a handful of Democrat Party leaders to move their position in a handful of subjects to address grave moral concerns of millions of their natural voters than for them to expect than they could get the votes of all the millions for whom those things were important without conceding an inch on those subjects.
Want to see who gave the election to Trump on a platter: look inside the Democrat Party.
You are entitled to hate whoever you like, but hate doesn’t make you right. In fact it might be altering your judgement just a little.
I think its a little dishonest to collapse everything down to this one moment, that decides the moral standing of a person, whether they are for or against the movement to defeat trump and the criminal right wing. Its important to take into considerations what came before, at least, not to mention that the country is a big diverse place largely controlled by private interests. If you aren’t out here trying to educate people and wanna sit on the sidelines and judge others I won’t stop you, but IMO you really have very little right to judge when the time comes.
It’s not dishonest. This election was a vote between the status quo and outright fascism. If you didn’t vote against fascism, you supported it.
There’s no nuance here. Your reasons don’t matter. If you didn’t vote against the guy who straight up said he would be a dictator, you’re culpable for the situation we’re in now.
You people treat this like it’s some zero sum game. The democrats did screw the pooch, but so did the people who didn’t vote to stop fascism. Both can be true.
You dismiss 3/4 of the picture in order to make a point based on only 1/4 of the information
That’s exactly what you’re doing. Ignoring how much worse the situation is if you abstain from voting because you’re focused on the lesser evil. Even on Gaza Trump said he wants to “clean it all out”. Even on this issue the greater evil is worse. Stop pretending there was anything noble about letting that monster have power again. The system doesn’t work so they let an even worse one take over and people who abstained or protest voted bear some of that responsibility for the consequences
I don’t frame questions in terms of lesser/greater evil. I actually don’t need religious concepts at all to understand this situation, all I have to do is listen to people and remember what came before.
You’re so divorced from reality that there are no actual people who you are condemning, you’re just mad at some strawman constructed by the party that humiliated itself, for it was the democrats failures that lost. You’re buying into a ridiculous narrative that deflects all crit away from the democrats and puts it in some strawmen. It’s like conservatives with their woke washing of all politics, or bad faith liberals and “tankie”.
And to be clear, I don’t agree with people who abstained to vote, I did not abstain to vote. and I didn’t encourage anyone to abstain. I am very politically active and fundamentally agree with your logic. However…
What I despise is the scapegoating and strawmanning that is just endlessly regurgitated on this site.
I actually don’t need religious concepts at all to understand this situation
You think good and evil are religious concepts? That’s a new one. And I’m the one divorced from reality lol. People who abstained choose to do nothing about the rise of fascism. I do not blame them as much as someone actively supporting it but they absolutely share the blame for doing nothing to stop it and it’s absurd to give them a pass as we suffer the consequences of their decision
Hitler was appointed as the lesser evil according to the liberal government that appointed him.
Lesser evilism is the most evil option in all scenarios.
And Trump is the lesser evil according to maga. Your point is we should just do the opposite of what liberals think? That’s the entire philosophy of Republicans so that adds up
Greater evilism is as dumb as it sounds
I’m getting so tired of liberals who spend all their time complaining about people not supporting their preferred genocidaire instead of demanding candidates that aren’t aspiring genocidaires.
It is the candidate’s job to win the election, not the electorate’s. If the anti-genocide voting bloc was enough to swing the election (it wasn’t) then maybe your candidate shouldn’t have supported a fucking genocide in spite of that.
The US style “Liberals” seem to be incredibly subservient, prefering to blame millions of people for not chosing their “boss” rather than the “boss” for not even trying to appeal to those people.
All the talk of the supposedly Go Getter and Independent spirit in America and yet around here we are faced with an overwhelming amount of American arse-kissers who are seemingly unable to even conceive that maybe, just maybe, “the boss” was the one who did things the wrong way, causing millions to refuse to chose them and hence has most of the blame for the outcome.
On the upside, watching this is a wonderful opportunity to learn a lot about the evils of people being mindless unchallenging followers of “Leaders” in Politics.
Oh, the extreme submissiveness of those who chose to blame for an electoral loss the millions who did not vote for the Leaders who refused to move an inch towards the interests of those voters rather than blaming the handful of Leaders for not moving an inch towards the interests of millions of otherwise natural voters (in fact, they even moved away).
It takes quite a “the boss is always right” butt-kissing boot-liking mindset to blame millions for not following an asshole rather than blaming “the boss” for being an asshole.
One of the most eye-openning discoveries here on Lemmy during this whole Electoral Process in the US is just how many of the “centrists” in America have interiorized a quite extreme level of unchallenging subservience to those they believe are their leaders.
You’re an idiot. Again, the democrats didn’t offer a pony, so dumbasses chose fascism. They chose not to participate in this election, and now there will be no more elections.
They really stuck it to the Democrat leaders though, right? Millions of people will have to suffer and die because people decided to throw a tantrum instead of stopping fascism.
That submissiviness is so deeply engrained that still now you can’t criticize the handful of people at the top of only Party with a chance to defeat Trump who by a gigantic margin had the most power out of everybody in the whole damn country to sway the election and “Stop Trump” (as they demanded from others and their useful idiots parroted) and who refused to move an inch on it, and instead you persist on blaming the plebes with their 1-in-240,000,000 voting “power” who did not suitably grovel and supported your Party’s Royalty whilst they treated them worse than trash.
I’ve seen more realistic and hard nosed takes on the relation between the people and their leaders involving actual Royalty, than that “it’s all the faults of the plebes” propaganda you and your fellow arse-kissers keep repeating.
But, hey, you keep on licking that boot. Yummy yummy.
Did I ever say the democrats weren’t to blame for the situation? Both democrats and idiots who stayed home are to blame.
Stop trying to justify letting fascism happen.
You relentlessly and repeatedly persist in voicing criticism for the choices of the near-powerless whilst staying silent on the choices of the powerful.
This is to the point that when confronted with it you claim that you never dismissed the blame of the powerful, immediatelly followed by once again NOT blaming the powerfull and instead throw even more insults towards the near-powerless that didn’t suitably support those very same powerful people (whom you have so far, already 3 posts down, not criticized) who didn’t even try to appeal to them.
The nicest possible interpretation of your mindless repeating of that mantra even whilst claiming you’re not doing it, is that all that shoe polish you must have ingested has affected your brain.
The voters weren’t near powerless (they are now, though). In fact, they had all of the power. They were literally the last defense we had against fascism, and 1/3 of them chose to not stop it because the democrats ran a bad campaign.
The Democrat leadership was irrelevant at election time. The choice was between the status quo and fascism. There’s no nuance. Because guess what? The Democrat leadership is now completely irrelevant because you can’t vote out fascism.
If you didn’t vote against fascism, you are complicit in it happening.
And I am blaming the powerful. The reason I didn’t focus on that is because you already blame the powerful, but you’re trying to excuse the voters who absolutely share culpability, which is why I focused on them.
They already own the supreme court.
That’s the joke
Yeah, I get it. It’s just that it’s sad.
I’m sad.
“John Marshall has made his decision, now let him enforce it”
-An Actual US President said this
(Andrew Jackson, btw)
The majority of the supreme court would crack open a barrel of kerosene.
Here in the EU I’m having trouble keeping up, what are talking about here?
Elon Musk is actively taking over various government agencies and installing his own sycophants into them. 18 year old kids are now in charge of the 6 trillion dollars that the government spends annually and were appointed to that position directly from their internships at SpaceX or Tesla. But at least they were camp counselor the year before!
Medical and scientific research is being scrubbed for any mentions of gender (and probably sexuality as well) and COVID while the CDC has been gagged and told they can’t report data on ANY active diseases - including the current bird flu that may or may not be turning into another pandemic.
The tariffs are going to cripple the economy on basically all fronts. I heard somebody claim that US auto makers have said that they’ll have to stop production after a week because nobody can afford to make cars with those prices.
Trump released thousands of gallons, if not hundreds of thousands, of water from a lake reservoir in California, flooding farmers’ fields and almost flooding over levies “because it will help with the fires in LA” despite them being hundreds of miles away, which will hurt the farmers this summer as they won’t be able to use that water to keep their crops alive, which will further add to food supply issues and hurt California’s economy - which will hurt the rest of the nation by extension because their economy is one of the largest contributors to tax revenue in the country.
The list goes on and on.
“[…] my city is falling apart. and here I am… vibing.”
Ok so I actually knew all of those aside from the water thing. For a second I thought he’d done something even more outrageous.
Well, the week has just begun anyway.
That was just the stuff off the top of my head from over the weekend. As you say, the week yet young; there’s plenty of time for new horrors to be born.
And just like the horrors of last week, these too will be supplanted by next week’s horrors and forgotten, because there’s just too fucking much going on to keep track
I had actually hoped this wouldn’t be as bad as we feared after seeing their rank incompetence still on display, but it turns out it’s even worse than that
Damn, this comment section is a good reminder that western “anarchists” are just embarrassed liberals.
You’re think everyone is commenting is an anarchist?
No, I think everyone commenting is a liberal.
It probably due to your incurable case of campism
Lol, your comment history is you attacking everyone to the left of Elizabeth Warren, but apparently not licking the boots of right wing neo liberals is “campism”
Are you just making up my history based on what you wish it was? No, you calling everyone who’s not a red fash, “liberal” is campism.
Nah, I’m reading it. And lol at someone who calls leftists “red fash” calling people who think the Democrats are liberal campist. Great “anarchist” com you’ve got here.
Nah, I’m reading it.
You clearly need glasses.
I didn’t call “people who think the Democrats are liberal” campist. I called someone who calls everyone “liberal” indiscriminately campist something which is reinforced by you claiming I support democrats and “criticize anyone left of Warren”.
Great “anarchist” com you’ve got here.
Another campist endlessly surprised that Anarchists don’t believe in the so-called “left unity” delusion…
I would argue it is the non-voters in this position.
