Context: https://lemmy.world/comment/14613536 Screenshotted context just in case:
A user claims that the killing in Palestine stopped under Biden now. I point out that biden had full-throatedly supported the genocide for over a year. A mod deletes my post and says that biden didn’t “state” (keyword here) full-throated support for genocide.
I counter by saying I consider sending billions in support of genocide counts as full-throated support for genocide. I also point out that I didn’t say Biden stated his support for genocide and that he didn’t need to outright state it because actions speak louder than words.
I receive a temp ban for that counter and the mod adds a response where they claim the weapons were “provided for defense from Iran, full stop.” which sounds to me like actual misinformation because how the hell does bombing hospitals in Gaza defend Israel from Iran? I’m not bothered by their stupid opinion, but I am bothered that they are enforcing it through moderation.
I ran into a similar moderation problem on the Political Memes community also on .world, but I didn’t bother making a post here for that because that’s just a dumb meme community and I was better off just blocking it, but now this is concerning a world news community and it’s awful to see something like this happening in a community that’s supposed to keep people aware of the news.
But hey, maybe I’m wrong and it actually is misinformation to say it’s full-throated support of genocide to send billions in weapons to a country using those weapons to commit genocide. Please let me know what you think!
PTB especially considering jordanlund continued that thread to have the same argument with someone else with basically identical views as you. if it’s really misinformation all of that should be removed, but clearly it’s just satisfying to get a one up over one user.
i have said this before: !world@lemmy.world isn’t a news community; it’s a sandbox for that mod team to fuck around in.
It would really be nice to see !world@quokk.au and !globalnews@lemmy.zip consolidate to offer an alternative, but the discussion never concluded: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/19642782
Ping @Deceptichum@quokk.au @PhilipTheBucket@ponder.cat @BrikoX@lemmy.zip @xiao@sh.itjust.works @thelucky8@beehaw.org
BPR, in a sense.
Hear me out.
I don’t think any particular viewpoint should ever be censored on Lemmy, except maybe in very rare exigent circumstances which this doesn’t even remotely qualify as.
That said, there is a massive misinformation problem on Lemmy, amplifying the true fact that Biden supported Israel’s genocide, and tying it randomly into totally different topics to the point that it distorts the real conversation and often crowds out genuine posters. That should be censored.
I don’t think you can do it based on the viewpoint, but I absolutely get what Jordan’s trying to do here. It’s very difficult to tell if any particular person is doing misinformation, and if they’re not, you can’t censor their viewpoint, because that’s messed up. But it’s also hard to look at a whole comments section full of “GENOCIDE JOE he killed all those people I will never co-sign a genocide kamalcaust you need to call her kamalacaust blue MAGA” from people who are all incredibly obtuse and vocal in generally the same similar way when anyone talks to them about it, and not say that something should be done.
It’s a hard problem. I have no idea if this particular poster is doing misinformation. If they aren’t, then they should be allowed to say whatever. But removing misinformation, that’s happening as an organized operation at scale, is absolutely a good thing. I wish mods did more of it, and I wish there was a better way to do it.
So: I actually do at this point have something pretty akin to “proof” that particular posters are doing misinformation on Lemmy in an organized fashion. If there are any admins that are interested to want to see it, message me privately and let’s talk.
That’s perhaps understandable if it was an isolated comment, but my first comment was in direct response to someone else who said, which I quoted, “we were told it would stop [if] Harris lost!” to which I responded by asking who was saying that because I can’t imagine anyone serious saying that. In fact, that user’s claim could be considered misinformation because it was completely misrepresenting the protest against genocide (but their post remains unmodded because I guess the mod agrees with them). I then went on to point out that the genocide had been going on for over a year by that point and I used “full-throatedly” because although the biden administration were pretending to hold back israel with like one shipment of weapons paused, they were providing israel with everything they needed to completely destroy Gaza.
“we were told it would stop [if] Harris lost!” to which I responded by asking who was saying that because I can’t imagine anyone serious saying that.
There are people, this week, saying that Trump was able to end the war, because unlike Biden, he’s not afraid to get tough with the Israelis. I agree with you that isn’t a serious thing for them to say, but they are certainly saying it.
Here are some:
https://ponder.cat/post/1381069/1571676
So so far Trump did much more for Palestinian lifes than Biden. That is not a big achievement of Trump. It just shows that Biden indeed is genocide Joe, who chose every day to continue this, despite all it taking to end it being a phone call.
Emphasis is mine.
Another:
https://ponder.cat/post/1323549/1513345
Are you saying Biden wanted to end the war, but couldn’t?
Several different people have been talking about how it’s going to stop, now, because Harris lost and it’s Trump. I agree. That’s absurd.
I’m not trying to have an extensive debate about the original topic here. I actually agree with you that Jordan removing your point of view, because in his opinion it’s provably wrong, is totally PTB. I read back on the context and you 100% have a point. It bugged me. The mods can’t go around deciding who’s right and wrong and removing the wrong comments. I’m just saying that there is a tide of misinformation on this exact topic, with some of it conforming to the parameters you say would be an insane thing for someone to say. Which I agree with. Which is why several different people all saying it, apparently not wanting to engage with any reasonable dialogue about it, and shifting their positions, and making outlandish strawmans about the other side, et cetera, is a problem.
So: I actually do at this point have something pretty akin to “proof” that particular posters are doing misinformation on Lemmy in an organized fashion. If there are any admins that are interested to want to see it, message me privately and let’s talk.
You should probably message those people’s admins.
Seems aligned with the general tendency of LW mods to deny any implications of the USA as weapons providers for Israel
https://feddit.org/post/2791051?scrollToComments=true
No opinion on my side, I’m not American, but curious what others have to say.
1000% and it got me banned from world
I’m shocked I’m not banned from .world for giving citations of the horrid actions of the people they idolize.
“Reality has a liberal bias” is a funny joke from Colbert, and when you give them reality and facts with places they themselves agree are “neutral, unbiased, reputable”, suddenly they never liked them. Reality has a bias of “Maybe doing horrible things is bad no matter who does them.”
They will change their tune when Trump does murder in Gaza. Suddenly they always supported Palestine, they always donated to the cause, never once did they ever defend Israel.
PTB
While I generally do like your politics, and do also agree, I think it ill behoves you to not leave an explanation.
It’s not your responsibility to weigh in on everything that comes through this community, even though most of us do appreciate it.
Behooves? You mean it benefits me, or did you mean to use a negative? Otherwise that “While” makes no sense.
Ahh, sorry, that was rather archaic speech. I’m just saying it seems to me to be bad praxis to leave only a verdict without an explanation.
I don’t agree. As far as I’m concerned, the explanation is the OP itself. I also don’t always have the time or inclination to write more than a judgement. Note however that my vote is not “The Final Say” or anything. I’m just writing as equal to one of y’all.
I understand.
Everybody’s been brainwashed by zionism their whole lives, especially genocide joe.
Do you just like using “full-throated”? Lol. That has a completely different meaning for me
I like using the word in this case because it accurately describes the level of support biden has for israel. Coincidentally, he tops the list of recipients of donations from aipac: https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/summary?cycle=All&ind=Q05&recipdetail=S
Don’t worry about a ban from World News
Theres plenty of other world news communities to go to on other servers, if a servers moderation is poor vote with your feet, comments, and posts.
Like, my opinion, man…
Its probably too far to say “full throated support for genocide”, that administration made it very clear they didn’t like what Israel has done to Palestinians. Buut, its also hard to argue that administration didn’t passively support genocide or genocidal behaviour.
Its clearly true to say they supported the collective punishment of a whole people. Thats unambiguous, that administration put the US on the wrong side of history, and international law, something the US was instrumental in supporting, if never adopting.
Friends tell friends when they’re in the wrong, Israel doesn’t have a friend in the US, they’re the US’ unsinkable aircraft carrier.
that administration made it very clear they didn’t like what Israel has done to Palestinians.
Which is why despite saying one thing they did the opposite and continued to send blank checks. Actions speak louder than words. Full throated indeed.
PTB.
Its probably too far to say “full throated support for genocide”,
The USA is not only supporting the genocide with money and arms; they (and the UK) have also been bombing the only state (Yemen) that has tried to fulfill the international principle of Responsabilty to Protect (R2P) and has deployed their naval army to prevent others states to do it and/or to help with the genocide.
For me, that’s enough to speak of an Israel-USA-UK genocide.
And sorry to go off-topic. 🤷🏽
Edit: added wiki link snd typos
The Houthis in Yemen, not Yemen proper, you mean. How does their piracy and kidnapping of ships and their crews do anything to protect Palestinians? It’s blatant disregard for international law.
Look up the awful crimes of the Houthis against Yemenis before you hail them as your humanitarian heroes.
No, I mean Yemen. Ansar Al·lah is the Yemeni party that is in position to dictate their actions during the civil war that has been paused as a reaction of the Israel attack to the Gazan territory (i.e.: the escalation of the Israel genocide)
How does their piracy and kidnapping of ships and their crews do anything to protect Palestinians?
What you call piracy and kidnapping, others can call it blockade of Israel and detention of the ships in violation of that blockage.
We disagree on the finer points, but i’m not gona argue these points.
Fact is if these administrations don’t wish to be accused of war crimes, crimes against humanity, or contraventions of UN Charters then there are other paths throughout this period they could have chosen.
Removed by mod
