There’s a lot of ‘either-or’ fallacy going on here.
You can be pissed off at Biden and Harris for their enabling genocide; angry at the DNC for making the same mistakes again and again that keep opening the door to fascism, recognize Trump as the worst case scenario, vote for Harris despite the bullshit above cuz she was the clear lesser evil, be angry at other voters for either overtly supporting fascism or allowing it to win in some self-defeating act of defiance, and recognize that people are burnt the fuck out and drew the line at both sides supporting genocide to just clock out and let the world burn cuz nothing else is working.
Pointing your finger at any one person or concept isn’t going to accomplish shit. We’re dealing with a system that’s absolutely saturated with compounding failures.
The solution? I don’t fucking know. Probably nothing Lemmy’s TOS would allow us to discuss. But two or three or fifty etc things can be true at the same time, and what we DON’T need to be doing is fragmenting communities that see eye to eye 99% of the time - that’ll just package ourselves up in little bite sized pieces for the fucking Nazis to steamroll like they did the last time.
There literally is only one party(no pun intended) worth holding accountable, and that is Biden, Harris, and the Democratic party leadership. Sure you can be angry at other voters for not voting how you wanted, but that’s not productive, and ignores the issues that made them vote however they did. The Dems one job was to appeal to their voting base, and they failed miserably. Holding them accountable is the only solution that actually addresses the issue, which is that millions of people are dissatisfied with them. You’re not going to bully a huge amount of Americans into changing their minds, but putting pressure on the Dems, whoch is what the ‘undecided’ voters were all about, might eventually yield results. It might have even happened in this last election if other so-called progressives hadn’t taken such a strong stance trying to silence them, or accuse them of being russian trolls. If the polling numbers had been worse in the year leading up to the election, if the ‘blue no matter who’ crowd had taken a stand, if people hadnt theown away their only leverage months before the election even happened, then maybe the democrats would have altered their campaign trajectory and we wouldnt be in this situation. As it is the DNC are the only ones who are truly at fault.
As it is the DNC are the only ones who are truly at fault.
They certainly hold a large share of the blame, but my point is they’re not the only ones who fucked up.
Since we’re following parallels to pre-Nazi Germany, let’s compare it to that. They had a similar cascade of failures that lead to the Nazis rise in power, so as a ‘what if’ kind of thought experiment, what should _____ have done in order to prevent that rise (and ultimately the Holocaust)? The blank applies to any of the key players, ranging from the established government, to the individual citizen, and everyone/every group in between.
All of them fucked up to some extent - some WAY more than others, but the important bit is that their collective effort (or lack thereof) failed.
I’m sure you see where this is going. Fast forward to today and we find ourselves in the same boat, riding the razor’s edge edge of that exact same failure… but as dangerously close as we are, we still haven’t gone full Nazi, so we’re still (barely) in ‘what should ____ be doing’ territory. Not what should we have done, but what should we be doing.
And like I said in my previous post: I don’t know. Probably something we’re not allowed to discuss per Lemmy’s TOS, so I guess we just skip that part of the conversation while we’re here. What’s left? Mutual aid. Planning. More planning. What are the most immediate threats we’re facing under the worst case scenario, and how are you prepared to handle those? Do you have a passport? Where do you plan to go if you need to use it? Is it up to date? Are you equipped to defend yourself in the event that you belong to one of the groups Trump targets via stochastic terrorism? Do you own a firearm? Have you cleaned it in the last decade? Is the ammo still serviceable?
Those are the kinds of questions we need to be asking ourselves and anyone in our life who’s part of a group targeted by Trump. Here and now, I don’t really give a shit about the DNC. What’s done is done. I’m worried about what I need to be doing to keep myself safe. I’m worried about whether or not my trans neighbors will be able to stay safe, or the immigrants who have come to support my community through their labor, or, or, or, – you get the point.
What we need right now is unity. If it becomes evident that Trump or his admin lack the capacity or spine to go full Nazi, then fine, let’s spend our energy on bitching out the DNC. Right now we have bigger fish to fry.
Do what you need to do to be safe, and please help others on that path as you’re able.
I don’t directly blame Biden though.
The blame falls first and foremost on the DNC. It’s likely that if they hadn’t overtly sabotaged Sanders, Trump wouldn’t have even had a first term, much less a second.
I blame Biden for his administration’s unwavering support of Israel’s ongoing genocide campaign. That 100% depressed voter turnout.
Better not vote for the Kamala because she “supports” genocide. I’ll just sit back and let the guy that said he’d let Isreal wipe Palestine off the map win. That be much better, and I can lir to myself that I didn’t take part in a system that gave us these two choices.
This is a great example of why Democrats lost: feeling entitled to votes. You don’t get someone’s vote just because the other guy is worse, you have to get the vote out by convincing people you will help them. “Stop whining about drowning in debt and the rising COL, the economy is great” obviously didn’t do that. Better double down on it and call everyone morons, I guess.
But like what’s the other option? You know you’re getting one or the other, and one is going to hurt a lot of people rather directly.
Really, though, the time is now to start trying to make changes, when we’re in an election that ship has sailed and you ARE picking the lesser of two evils.
The other option is what people did: staying home, not voting, and not caring which one they get because neither one has done anything to improve the material conditions in their day to day lives. All the yelling about duty and democracy isn’t going to do shit to motivate people who are up to their ears in bills and working three jobs to pay rent.
Like, obviously that’s not ideal. I’m one of the people who is at risk during a Trump presidency, I know he’s the worse option. But the DNC can’t coast on “wow those guys are just so bad” forever, they have to actually do something.
And yes, I know Republicans try to stop the government from doing literally anything helpful at every turn. That doesn’t mean the Democrats have to lose their fucking spine about it. If they’re not even willing to threaten the nuclear option with the filibuster then they’re not even doing politics, they’re just getting paid to argue politics on TV with their office buddies.
Sure I get it, and I don’t disagree, the dnc cannot just coast on ‘well at least we’re not THAT bad.’ But if someone stayed home and didn’t vote or voted 3rd party out of spite, I have no patience for their calls of ‘boo boo don’t blame us, blame the dnc!’ I know several people who are terrified about what the incoming presidency could mean for them, and I am also afraid. Sure the dnc and the democrats don’t do very much for us, but at least they are militantly opposed to us.
Again, the time to start pushing change is NOW. Not in 4 years, when if we do nothing we will once again be stuck with well, at least is isn’t actively awful.
That is if we even have a democracy for next time.
Yeah, for the most part I don’t disagree. I held my nose and voted Harris even though my presidential vote doesn’t matter in a blue state anyway. I just think the responsibility ultimately lies with the DNC, not the voters, since the DNC’s job is literally to get Dems elected. I’m not particularly optimistic about how much the DNC really supports us, even if they are for sure better than Republicans.
I’ve stopped expecting anything in the way of progress nationally that isn’t coming out of the courts (SCOTUS is weirdly a mixed bag in this regard). I’m not expecting any of them to stick their neck out in the next 4 years when I’m already seeing think pieces about how trans rights cost Dems the election.
Do you disagree, was voter turnout for Democrats not low? Or are you being sarcastic because you can’t address the content?
I’m pretty sure I directly addressed it. I don’t even know why you would think I was implying turnout wasn’t low. Fucking weird.
You didn’t directly address anything, you deflected legitimate criticism of the dnc to criticize voters.
Since subtext isn’t your thing I’ll spell it out. If you sit out elections you’re a fucking idiot. If you didn’t vote for Kamala because she didn’t explicitly state she’d stop the genocide you effectively enabled someone that stated they would speed up the genocide. Again, a fucking moron. Sitting out an election does not remove you from the system.
Good job sending the DNC a message. I’m sure all the harm coming from the Republicans controlling everything for a minimum of two years will be totally worth it, and the DNC will definitely move in the direction you want them to.
I’m not even a Democrat or Liberal, but y’all need to live in the system we have and not the system you want.
Fuck’s sake.
The election was 2 months ago. Stop hinging everything on something that happens once every 2 years, because there’s nothing more to be done about it now. Kamala wasn’t going to do shit to stop the genocide, and voters showed that it was an extremely important issue that the democratic candidate failed to differentiate on.
Now we have a Trump presidency, paved by the DNC, again. What are you going to do to fight back?
Right, but again, the only reason that was relevant is because the DNC sabotaged Sanders and forced Biden on us instead.
They sabotaged Sanders twice, technically.
And Hillary Clinton literally ran with a “Pied Piper Strategy” to elevate Trump because she was convinced she was going up against Jeb Bush. She wanted to make the right-wing seem unhinged and god damn it she got what she wanted, they’re actually unhinged.
especially since this is so completely different from every presidents lack of support for isreal even if you just take demorats into effect. Pluse the way the issue completely allowed a party that would fight isreal to win. And of course that we did not push our 911 agenda so much that any ally could say this is our 911 and immediately get not only from us but also from europe. yup. completely unique to biden and nowaday democrats.
“An American Tragedy 2: How they’ll fucking do it again in a few years if Democrats keep running on a return to normalcy boogaloo”
