- cross-posted to:
- news@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- news@lemmy.world
Summary
President Joe Biden commuted the sentences of 37 federal death row inmates to life without parole, sparing all but three convicted of high-profile mass killings.
Biden framed the decision as a moral stance against federal executions, citing his legal background and belief in the dignity of human life.
Donald Trump criticized the move as senseless, vowing to reinstate the death penalty.
Reactions were mixed: some victims’ families condemned Biden, while others supported his decision. Human rights groups praised it as a significant step against capital punishment.
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When you hear the acts of each, you won’t believe that he did this. Makes no sense. Relatives and friends are further devastated. They can’t believe this is happening.
That’s because like Trump, those people don’t understand justice, they only understand revenge. Trump thinks literally everyone is a horrendous person who wants to wantonly murder others just like him. Control over whether someone lives or dies is the ultimate control, and the one Trump craves most. It’s super clear why this is so upsetting to him, he got his favorite type of domination and control taken away. His toys.
Remember that Trump said that “Relatives and friends are further devastated. They can’t believe this is happening.” Without source, and can be dismissed as something he made up on the spot. The families of the victims are a mixture of reactions some are in support some opposed and some can’t be found for comment.
Justice is a feeling. It’s not a factual thing. You can’t scientifically deduce whether justice has been served or not in a specific case.
Some people think eye for an eye is justice, some have other ideas of what justice is.
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Exactly this. People with primitive fairy tales telling them what is “justice” should not be setting the rules for anything.
I agree 100%, but I was never discussing what should be legal or illegal… Obviously any murder should be illegal. I don’t think anyone would disagree with that.
That doesn’t change my opinion that sometimes murder is needed to affect change and sometimes it’s even the morally right thing to do…
You honestly thought I was advocating for making murder legal?
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I challenge you to find a single person arguing in favor of making murder legal. I’ve never seen or heard anyone do that.
I think it can be needed sometimes throughout history when the inequality between rich and poor becomes too great, that doesn’t mean I think it should be legal…
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Back when slaves were legal it was illegal to kill a slave owner. I understand that and I think that’s how it needed to be. You can’t have laws that killing someone is legal.
On the other hand I don’t morally condemn the slaves that rose up and actually did kill their “owners”.
I absolutely can say something should be illegal but in certain cases I’m cool with it happening.
Check out restorative justice models. One in Colorado has boasted 95% victim satisfaction and recidivism crashed from 50 down to like 10%. We can use this data to demonstrate what justice models are better, regardless of a definitive definition.
Yeah, but that’s not profitable
I know those models and am all for them. I’m Scandinavian so I’m not at all for eye for an eye type of justice.
The original comment I was replying to said something along the lines of “these people don’t understand justice”.
I was just pointing out that justice is a feeling more than anything else. You can point out that restorative justice is a better way for society to go and it works better for most individuals too but if someone says that they don’t feel like justice has been served you can’t say they’re wrong.
They just have a different opinion on what justice is.
Some people think the earth is flat - that doesn’t mean it is.
Justice is a pretty nebulous abstract thing, I agree with that, but modern society has a pretty clear understanding that retribution isn’t Justice.
What does flat earth has to do with this? The shape of the earth is NOT an opinion. It’s a provable fact.
That’s why some people don’t get control over what happens to the convicted. We do know our justice system isnt perfect and makes more mastakes than what even the most rational person would find unacceptable. There is no going back once the state murders someone. And unless we have equal punishment for whomever caused a innocent person to be executed by the state. It should be outlawed in all cases.
Is trump cryingon social media about how he doesn’t get to kill 37 people on Christmas eve ?
Nice move by sleepy joe i guess
Yes, but both sides.
Well, Kamala had that laugh, so…
“The economy!”
-People who spent $41 billion three weeks later.
Santa told him he was getting an inmate to put to death in exchange for every single one of his felonies. Sorry I mean Satan told him.
Anyway he’s pissed that he got coal instead.
While I’m overall glad about this, leaving 3 unpardoned inmates really corrupts the “moral stance against federal executions” justification and makes it seem like he is in favor of capital punishment but only for people he thinks deserve it. It also makes it seem like he believes it’s his decision to decide who gets to live and that rubs me the wrong way.
Even the most die-hard anti-death-penalty believer has their limits. It may take Hitler-level atrocities to get there, or maybe even worse. But everyone has their own line in the sand where even they will say “If there was ever a case in favor of the death penalty, this is that case.” That line is in a completely different place for everybody.
It also makes it seem like he believes it’s his decision to decide who gets to live and that rubs me the wrong way.
Since the President has final pardon power, he actually does get to decide who gets to live. It’s a power granted to him by the Constitution.
Yep I’m anti-death penalty, the 3 that didn’t get pardoned should probably just live the rest of their lives in prison. But I’m not going to shed any tears for them.
He didn’t pardon the others, he commuted their sentences to life in prison. Of note, the 3 civilians left are terrorists who committed mass murder and were caught red handed. There are also 4 people on military death row who remain. One is also a mass murdering terrorist; one committed literal treason, attacking his own unit in the middle of the night overseas; one is a serial killer/rapist; and one took three trials over 4 decades to convict of a group murder.
They should probably commute his sentence too…
Yeah sorry that’s what I meant, long day at work. no sympathy for the people on death row, either way they should not be allowed back into normal society.
I understand that and, if you ask me, those 3 guys are pos. My problem is that he said he did it to take a moral stance against death penalty. You can’t do that and go “except for these 3 cases”.
Right, but again…everybody has that point where they say “…except that case”. You and Biden just disagree on where that line is. Even the Pope is eventually going to look at someone who committed some heinous crimes and say “Dude, even the Bible says that shit ain’t cool…”
But not everybody is making a statement about morality. He’s purportedly saying “capital punishment is bad and we should get rid of it”. If you make exceptions, all you’re saying is that you’re in favor of keeping it around for really bad people, which is exactly where they are now.
People make exceptions for things they believe in all the time. Religion is a prime example; show me any established religion, and I’ll show you a few dozen beliefs associated with that religion that 99.9% of worshippers conveniently ignore. That doesn’t mean they don’t believe. That just means they have limits.
show me any established religion, and I’ll show you a few dozen beliefs associated with that religion that 99.9% of worshippers conveniently ignore
Zoroastrianism.
Zoroastrianism.
I’d be willing to bet that if you could even find someone practicing the religion, they’re not praying several times a day in a fire temple.
I’m not sure that’s true. Some people legitimately stop at life in prison and always oppose the death penalty.
I’m one of those. Capital punishment is obsolete in my opinion, since we no longer need to execute people to ensure that they don’t present danger to the civilized population in the future.
I’m confident. Granted, for some people that red line may require atrocities at or above Hitler levels. It may require atrocities that are comically unrealistic. But it’s there. Put up someone who killed a proverbial busload of school children. If that isn’t enough, two. “Yeah, I killed them all, and I raped them first, and I’ll do the same again if I ever escape.”. Someone’s gonna say “Yeah, OK, stick the needle in his arm”, just because they don’t want to take the .000001% chance that he actually does escape.
An extreme example, yes, but I’m sure you get the idea. Everybody’s got a breaking point.
Again, I don’t know if that’s true. People seem to have very strange absolute moral ideas sometimes.
That doesn’t necessarily mean their beliefs are absolute. It just means that the red line needed to shake those believes has yet to be found.
Nope. The most die hard, anti death penalty believer has no limits and literally says “we do not have the right to take anyone’s life, even if they are Hitler. In fact it would be better for society if we got to try to rehabilitate Hitler”.
And I agree with them.People can downvote you but aren’t even thinking it out. Hitler right now is still a projected person for the far-right nazi movement and is brought up constantly. What if he had been imprisoned and actually got mental health care that doesn’t really exist in most prison populations currently (globally that is). If you had a senior Hitler, with life imprisonment, painting fields of flowers with jewish and little blonde/blond kids running around, it would be a totally different outcome in this day and age.
To be possible though the prison system would need completely reworked. In our current system I don’t think it would have the same outcome (since our system has a different purpose than rehabilitate currently). I also think people shouldn’t be able to communicate as effectively with the outside world without extra censorship (that whole no harm to society thing, can still happen if they’re voicing action or calls to violence, happens still currently.).
Even the most die-hard anti-death-penalty believer has their limits.
I’d love a source for this. Personally, I don’t think we should be in the business of killing defenseless people in any context.
I have no such limits. Death, as a penalty, is always unjust because humans do not have free will. Every action, every thought, has some biological, or neurochemical, or material basis for it’s happening. Inflicting any form of punishment or suffering on the qualia, the conscious experience of someone, for the illusion of choice we believe to have, is actually just inflicting suffering on innocent beings, because we have no choice.
Now, that’s not too say I’m anti-violence. But I firmly believe that every piece of violence should be evaluated as if it was being done against an innocent person. Things like “guilt” or “they deserve it” should not be taken into the calculation when doing violence at all, only the benefits it has to the rest of society. If you are in the position to levy death as a punishment, I would rather just see them locked up for life.
Death, as a penalty, is always unjust because humans do not have free will.
By this logic, all laws are unjust and humans aren’t responsible for their actions.
humans aren’t responsible for their actions.
Yes! Humans are indeed, not culpable for their actions because we have no free will.
Now, I won’t go into the nuances of laws here, but I do find punishing people for the sake of punishment, or out of some sense of “they deserve it” to be problematic because all humans are innocent.
The only thing that I can come to the conclusion is that two of the three are neo-nazis.
He could be sending a message, and that’s what Trump is actually pissed about.
The Boston bomber I can’t justify with that same line of thinking though.
Executions are barbaric, plus life in prison is far more cruel anyway.
He could be sending a message, and that’s what Trump is actually pissed about.
That actually makes sense.
well, regardless whether he or anyone believes it or not, it quite literally was his decision to make
Good conservative Christian’s LOVE killing!
Nothing says “pro life” like whining about not being able to murder someone.
Nothing shouts “Christian” than revenge murder.
Pretty clear donvict knows his qon “pro-life” fanbase is bloodthirsty, and they demand sacrifices.
Yea, this group largely believes an execution sends them to hell sooner to suffer more. As someone who isn’t religious, I’d rather they waste away in jail, as that is much more a punishment than a quick death.
Prison should be rehabilatative, not punitive
Prison is an sentence, thus a form of punishment, as well as a rehabilitation procedure, as well as mean of protection of the public.
Death sentence on the other hand, is a moronic form of punishment as well as ineffective,because it doesn’t prevent the crimes themselves
Prison is an sentence, thus a form of punishment, as well as a rehabilitation procedure, as well as mean of protection of the public.
Not in the United States, it isn’t. The system isn’t designed to rehabilitate offenders; it’s designed to encourage recidivism:
- Background and criminal record checks for jobs outside of high security or confidentiality fields.
- Background check for renting housing post release.
- Anti-homelessness and loitering laws.
- In some states where it hasn’t yet been banned, criminals may have to pay back the prison as part of parole conditions.
But, why would any civilized country allow that to happen? Because the 13th amendment has an exemption for criminals serving their punishment. Prisons can use inmates for mass labor and contracting while paying them a fraction of the value they are producing, generating profit.
Neither Orwell nor Bradbury nor Vonnegut could have come up with anything so bizarre and upside down as to have a complete criminal and felon pretend that he cares about law and order.
Wonder what trump is doing with dylan roof?
Execute? But its his kkk compatriot.
Not execute? But then he looks weak for walking back on his bloodthirsty executioner statements.
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Honestly I’m legitimately surprised he didn’t pardon him and give him a freaking medal, then bring Rittenhouse in so he and Roof can argue about whether it’s more redpilled to kill Pro BLM white protesters for being “race traitors” or actual black people for… being black people.
Maybe trump thinks: “Kill count too low, pathetic”
🤔
I mean, he was president during jan 6 and didnt even pardon them
Biden: I believe in the dignity of human life, except those three guys. I mean, come on man. I’m just being honest, those guys suck. I respect human life, but them? Ho-wha-ya, I-I, they suck. As your senator, I have made this decision, and Kamala stands by it.
Trump: You know, Biden, Joe Bye-den, Sleepy Joe as I call him. Many other call him Sleepy Joe, very smart people. Kamalala lost, I won. Really, America won, America will be greater under my Administration. We would have been safer too, but Old Sleepy Joe, as I call him, decided he would rather have violent inmates live instead of saving the taxpayers millions of dollars and stop giving them socialized medicine and socialized housing, he wants more of that. You know, he wants to spend our country into poverty while letting millions of illegals, many of whom are criminals, just like those 37 terrible people, and the three Joe loved so much to spare, Hunter Biden, and of course the media filled with liars and terrible nasty people. He wants to ruin America every last second he has. But don’t worry, there will be executions, many more, some would say too many, but I disagree. I spoke with experts in executions, very smart men, some women, if you could believe that, and they told me that we could execute many times more people than any president in history. I asked them how we could do that, how would that be possible, they told me about the concept for a plan to execute millions. I asked them, “millions?”, they told me “Easily”. Those very smart experts said we could easily execute millions, and I believe them. So we are going to make America great again and Sleepy Joe won’t be able to do anything about that come January, when my administration, the best Administration, some will say it will be the best Administration ever, takes control and implements a comprehensive plan to deal with the boarder crisis and make America great again.
We could have had Bernie…
If he’d won a primary, sure. But he didn’t. Sanders still had a massive impact despite his “supporters” attacking his party and by extension him. Because they don’t understand how politics work. This isn’t an endorsement of how politics currently work. Just pointing out that you can’t change how it works without understanding how it works in the first place. Something which Sanders knew very well. But his supporters have no concept of. Just being pissy and angry in his name working against him. But not at his request.
lol. I can’t tell if this is an amazing use of ChatGPT or what; but you’ve got trump’s voice down pat. It is scary that that it feels so dead on.
I despise the prevalent use of LLM. That is all off the dome.
I started reading and then stopped to Google to make sure it wasn’t real. 🤣🤣
I don’t think the government should have the power to kill people as a punishment, with that said I’m also not upset that the sentences of these three weren’t commuted.
I don’t understand the reasoning. you can’t say you are anti death penalty and believe in dignity and sanctity of life or whatever but then turn around and say “except for these three motherfuckers”…
I don’t think the government should be able to execute them. However, I am human, they’re mass murders, and it’s a situation I have no control over, so I’m not going to feel bad about not feeling bad that they’re still on death row. I don’t get to choose how I feel, just how I act. If it were me making the decision, I’d like to think I’d have commuted their sentences as well, even though I probably would have felt bad about doing so.
Although also, thinking about your comment more, I guess I don’t really care about sanctity of life or anything like that. It’s more of a power problem for me. Some people deserve to be killed, however nobody should be making that judgement and following through, because it’s not something that can be accurately judged. No one should have that power, especially the people in charge. When someone dies who I feel deserves it, it not going to upset me. Would I have killed them? No. Would I have prevented their death if I could? Honestly, questionable, depending on the person and situation. Is that hypocritical? I don’t know, maybe. There might not be an effective difference, killing through inaction vs killing through action, but there feels like a difference to me. Life isn’t black and white, I’m driven by a malfunctioning blob of meat, and I do the best I can. I take great comfort in the fact I’m never going to have to make that choice. I hope this gives you some insight into how I view things.
i was talking about biden’s statements, not yours
Oh, my bad. Thanks for giving me cause for self reflection anyways
no worries, good talk
Yeah, it seems weird that a government of a country that one is a citizen of can choose to have you killed. But assisted suicide is illegal.
One of the three he didn’t pardon was Dylann Roof. I thought they fried his ass already, had no idea he was still alive.
I did wonder why the three that weren’t spared were left to die… and I still kinda do.
Also I’m kinda surprised Trump didn’t pardon Dylann Roof.
It answers this question in the article – didn’t pardon mass murderers
Did no such thing, simply stated who the three that didn’t get commuted were, nothing about why they didn’t get it.
Because the media now mostly mentions the three bastards who didn’t have their sentences commuted, instead of the 37 that did. Changes the focus. Now people agree with Biden not to commute these sentences, and don’t think much more about the ones that were commuted.
I guess, continued explanations of why the politics are failing in America. Average citizen, “ok he pardoned more than his son, great. Oh he believes in the dignity of human life (strange way to put it but ok). He decided to leave 3 to die? Umm ok.”
It’s the same shtick with the “build back america greater” infrastructure bill. It all sounds great for the media till you actually scrutinize it. “Oh you’re wanting to spend how much on highspeed rail? Great! Oh, it’s all going to a shady company that has the countries worse rail record and has been lining everyone’s pockets financially but running a deficit since operation? umm ok?”
Apparently I misunderstood the above
What? I’m categorically against the death penalty. I don’t think it’s controversial to think Roof is a bastard for what he did.
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The State should not be allowed to punish someone by killing them. Capital punishment is merely revenge with the government acting as the hitman. There’s no way to prevent an innocent person from being accidentally murdered. And those 40 people are proof that it doesn’t act as an effective deterrent.
It’s a barbaric practice and we need to end it.
99% of the time yes but the Hitler fact. Assad, Putin, etc. Actual large scale crimes against humanity
There is an adage that says “Hard cases make bad law”. In the end is a case of, what is preferred, let a guilt person go unpunished or punish an innocent person? I personally believe that it is never ok to punish an innocent person. And I think it is not even that extreme when we are talking about capital punishment or be “tough on crime”, it is more like, do um prefer to under punish some guilt people or over punish others including some innocents?
Yes and No.
I agree completely in a fallible system these executions ought never exist.
However creating a framework of rules with outcomes and holding all accountable to them is the most morally / ethically benign thing we do as humans.
The state is the only ethical executor of these decisions.
BUT the system is fallible and made up of fallible people and isn’t always steered for the moral / ethical and as such your last sentence is even more truthful than even you meant it.
I don’t think one should be executed if their moral framework doesn’t align with the laws created by the state.
I understand why we can’t do this today, but I would much prefer the exile method to execution.
Biden: Grants clemency indiscriminately for 1,500 people Public: Why did you let the Cash for Kids woman free Biden: Commutes death sentences selectively Public: Who made you judge, jury and executioner?
Biden: Grants clemency indiscriminately for 1,500 people indiscriminately Media: Why did you let the Cash for Kids woman free Biden: Commutes death sentences selectively Media: Who made you judge, jury and executioner?
FIFY… Real people honestly wouldn’t care about any of this if the media wasn’t trying to inspire outrage.
I think it’s the opposite. The public opinion has turned on him and so everything he does is critiqued. It’s nudge on by the media but is also the cycle of celebrities du jour
His incompetence killed hundreds of thousands his first term. This time he was hoping for a more direct approach. Biden spoiled his murderous fun.
I kind of wonder if Biden is setting him up to execute Luigi and get on the wrong side of this current populist movement.
The fed has nothing to do with that. He’s being charged by the state of NY.TIL they added on a few federal charges.He is also being charged federally. And that is the capital case.
even if he does get convicted, any execution probably won’t happen in the next four years. death row appeals take a long time.
I know of onlt one western country with death penalty: Belarus. And I’m pretty sure as soon as potato dictator dies, it will be abolished.
Provided that microdick Vlad doesn’t pull a Ukraine on the country for trying to have democracy, and entering the EU and NATO
