It’s discrediting valid concerns against card-payments. It’s invalidating how great cash is.
It’s when the worst person you know makes a good point.
And things now are so Culture-Wars-y, nobody makes solid analyses any more, that when the far-right say cards are bad, everybody jumps to thinking cards are good.
I don’t agree that the reaction to what rightwingers say is so thoughtlessly contrary. In my experience, the reaction is usually “…huh, not what I expected, but okay. Oh, wait, THAT’S the reason they hate it? Nevermind…”
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they’ve always done that
They will always correctly identify the pincers and the stinger, but they will never mention a scorpion.
If its the same point, and you agree with it, wouldn’t it be stupid to not agree with the same point, but said by someone else you hate?
The lack of privacy is kind of the point. I can never go back to cash. Yes, there’s a ton of problems with credit cards and definitely censorship issues, but the pros still heavily outweigh the cons. Money is dirty, messy to deal with, change is a nightmare, can get lost, can get stolen, can’t really carry around large amounts, and is generally really bulky to carry around.
Sounds like one of those people in infomercials who can’t handle pouring juice in a cup. Cash is a nightmare, bulky? Really?
Have you ever put cash in your wallet? It gets fat really quick. Not to mention, who wants to carry dirty coins around. Cash in general is disgusting.
I’m imagining black and white b-roll of someone trying to stuff a crumpled up wad of bills into a wallet and fishing quarters out of a toilet.
“There’s got to be a better way!”
Why do you carry coins around…?
Because not everything we buy adds up to an exact dollar amount?
If only there were some way to exchange coins for notes…imagine if someone even invented an automated machine that could do it in seconds! But I guess that will never happen. Nope, just gotta keep hauling my sack of coins around like I’m in some old Disney cartoon…
You do that after every single cash transaction?
Surely there’s a long period between that and a transaction, I don’t know why I have to explain such an incredibly basic thing. This is what like every single person does.
What a strange person.
No, you obviously don’t do it after every transaction. You save the change until you have plenty saved up and then exchange it for bills. This is what like every single person does.
What a strange person
And so we return to my original question: why do you carry coins around?
While the last pandemic investigation showed that those machines where you put in your pin in supermarkets had more bacteria/viruses than cash. Much more people using those terminals more frequently than any same coin or same bill.
Digital money is stolen more often and in higher amounts. People who are glorifying credit cards do it until they got scammed or hacked and loose all their savings or even their identity. They go from “credit card fuck yeah” to “why have I been so stupid?” within a minute.
And why would you even carry a large amount of money with you? People who use cash, use common sense in general.
Credit cards have charge backs and fraud protection, buddy. You are significantly safer using them. That’s the benefit to them being privacy invasive.
Using chip is also a bit cleaner then swiping. You also don’t use just a single dollar bill or coin, you are touching multiple quantities, giving and receiving.
Also your other replies are super toxic and you talk like a child so I’m just going to block you here.
Always those pathetic people overwhelmed by their own lives…
Uhh yucky money!
I must live in a glass bell to protect me and never ever let my immune system do its job!
the lack of privacy with cards is primarily what is giving you security with them. trust factors will always exist somewhere in the chain.
to be more to the point of the post, though, you can agree with a person’s singular opinion without supporting or agreeing with that person.
This is a non-post, as it doesn’t even bring its own analysis to the table. What are the valid concerns against card payments? What is so great about cash?
The convenience of card payments heavily outweighs the (i assume privacy) concerns. So what if anyone knows I stuffed myself with an unhealthy amount of chips? I keep my cash for things that don’t accept other ways of payment, like bus fare and my drug dealer.
I see your point, though. It isn’t solely applicable to this issue; any discussion is mudded by disagreeing just for the sake of rejecting anything anyone with an opposing view on a distinct and unrelated subject.
In the UK buses and taxis increasingly take cards, and are phasing out cash. Same goes for shops. Having a card becomes the norm because it’s less fiddly and more convenient - great!
To open a bank account you need a fixed address and proof of ID in the form of a passport or driving license.
In the last year several thousand people have had bank accounts closed under the presumption of being a “politically vulnerable person”, one example was a teacher who went to volunteer in Ukraine for while.
If your bank account is overdrawn you get fees and are unable to use your card.
My mother is 85 and doesn’t understand ATMs, never mind online banking. The decreased access to cash has left her confused, and when stressed she can’t remember her pin number.
So, the most vulnerable in society are gradually being squeezed out of the ability to live day-to-day thanks to cash being phased out … the same is a desirable end-point for many capitalists elsewhere in the first world because they don’t see the value of people on the bottom rung.
I agree electronic payments are more beneficial than harmful. In terms of privacy in the mass surveillance world we live in, using cash just forces the watchers to use your cellphone data instead. I think privacy these days is mostly about living an uninteresting life.
Everyone needs privacy, especially people whom you hate.
yeah, I keep seeing some graffiti calling people to pay by cash in order to “stop NWO” around here. yuck.
Visa is an evil genius
but cash sucks
no
Can’t argue with that analysis, pretty solid.
Anything offered without an argument can be negated without an argument.
ok: you never have the correct change, oftentimes you get changed short, takes up too much space, you have to balance between not carrying too little and not carrying too much, hard to track spending (can be your upside, i understand)
i believe that we need the option to use cache in society, but it sucks ass to actually use it day-to-day
I mean your observations are correct, but I feel your reaction is sensationalism.
For hundreds of not thousands of years we’ve dealt with it. That’s not just, coping because there isn’t a better option, Humans are pretty capable when they’re not lazy
you never have the correct change
As a result change accumulates. Every so often I bring it to my credit union and throw it into a machine and deposit it for free.
oftentimes you get changed short
It’s very rare and the mistakes sometimes happen in my favor.
takes up too much space
Not usually. Only when on occasion I need to process a lot of change at once is there a significant space requirement.
you have to balance between not carrying too little and not carrying too much
This is trivial. I never spend more than half a second on such a decision. Usually I know instantly what to bring.
hard to track spending
That’s a feature.
i believe that we need the option to use cache in society
I believe cache must remain legal tender and refusing to accept cache should result in a felony conviction plus one year imprisonment.
That said, I would eliminate the penny and the nickel, and put the quarter on a serious diet. Then outlaw all the .99 and .95 type pricing. It might be OK to do away with the dime as well and only leave the largest coin in use.
Privacy and the freedom from oversight by any large entity are non-negotiable.
The only oversight I support is me doing oversight on you, and never someone else doing oversight on me. I am not a masochist.
I agree cash sucks in may ways. But in may ways cash is extremely good. For example privacy wise cash it king as it is for the most part is untraceable. I take $1,000 out of the bank. And it is much harder for anyone but myself to keep track of where I am spending that $1,000. Vs a debit/credit card the banks have a complete logs of everything I am buying. And potentially the retailers could be tracking my purchases via my card as well.
I thought the government was tracking the serial numbers on larger bills that were dispensed through ATMs? I didn’t hear that from a reliable source, but it seems pretty simple from a number of transactions standpoint.
It wouldn’t surprise me if they do. Lets say I get $100 bill out of the ATM, if the government wanted to track that bill. They would need to find that bill again and then try to back track the route the bill took to me. A very time intensive task and ultimately could lead to a dead end. After all how many people keep track of the serial numbers of your large bills?
Compare that to a card. Literally everything about it is tracked, it is all done automatically and can be acquired from the bank.
Paying in cash means I have to go to an actual store and talk to someone in person. No thank you
What? Talking to a cashier is dreadful? That is why your againsh cash?
ATM’s make pulling out cash an option without human interaction, plus there’s exponentially less tracking possible. Seems like a win-win, especially when you take into account some banks are revoking the option to pull out cash.
I’m as dead centre as it gets. On some topics, I’ll gently lean left or right, but try to be balanced in my analysis of things.
I advocate for cash, as I also advocate for privacy. It doesn’t make me far right.
There are plenty of reasons for cash. For me, it’s privacy. For others, I’m sure there are some solid, and some whacky reasons also.
The real issue for me will be the digital dollar. Every dollar will be tracked through every transaction it’s ever involved in. From inception into eternity. The ability for that data to be abused is terrifying.
I’ll keep using cash as long as it exists compared to what’s coming with the digital dollar.
There’s a ton of far right wing privacy advocates. For me personally, a social libertarian / anarcho communist, it seems like theyre drawing the same conclusions about privacy advocacy and open source from a completely different set of premises. For me, I view privacy as a right that’s been eroded ever since the advent of the concept of total war, to the point now that capitalists engage in surveillance espionage casually to sell collected data not even to the highest bidder, but instead at commodity prices. What’s the inflection point of supply and demand, basically
Meanwhile a lot of people on the right wing don’t view open source as a great equalizer, benefiting all of society, but rather as a tool for themselves for personal benefit. I honestly never fully find myself understanding their premises to be honest. But I’ve for sure seen antisemitism and racism arguments bandied about, which is a Y I K E S.
As far as public perception goes, I don’t really know what to say there. Yeah, I guess, it is indeed frustrating to have your average John or Jane assuming anyone using an encrypted messenger is probably a terrorist. I don’t think the solution is give up, but instead explain your stance and premises
I consider myself right leaning but I don’t think subscribing to right vs left wing ideology is nearly as important as supporting liberty vs authoritarianism. A lot of folks on both sides claims to believe in liberty but in actually they’re authoritarians in disguise because they just want the government to step in and eliminate dissent. I have a close friend who’s an anarcho communist just like you and whenever we have these discussions it just stays on a thought experiment level and has never harmed our relationships. Since at the end of the day we agree that people should be left alone.
What a great thing it is, to entertain an idea without necessarily accepting it.
I already see where this is going. The far-right is going to fuck up their credit scores even worse and then blame the NWO or wokeness or socialism or anything but their own stupidity when they cant get a car loan in 3 years.
The WEF is the current bogeyman.
You dont need a credit score to borrow money. I own crypto that i can borrow against as collateral for a loan. Plus i can keep it out forever as long as i pay at least the interest payment. I obviously dont do that, but i could. You do have to be careful with borrowing from crypto or stocks since they fluctuate and you could get liquidated, but i am allowed to borrow up to 70% of the face value and i have a personal cap of 35% so i never run into that.
You essentially just said “I have money to borrow money against”.
If you had an account with $100k and can borrow up to $70k against it, that isn’t really taking out a loan as it is just borrowing your own money.
Your argument essentially boils down to “just don’t be poor”. The people who need credit and to borrow money are those who don’t have the collateral to spend it otherwise.
You’re just essentially advocating for what rich people like Elon musk do. Take out loans against their stocks so they don’t actually have to liquidate their stocks to get usable cash.
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What do the people who don’t have money do?
Dont borrow money. About the worst thing you can do is go into debt
The car I need to go to work? Was I suppose to be born with 3-15K for that car? The House I want to buy. guess I just need to dig though the laundry for that 500K I left in my pants pocket?
I am all about not going into debt but often times it is a necessary evil.
Ah, we are thinking different debts. A car is like 7% and a house is like 5%. I am talking credit cards at 20-25% as being the real problem. If you have assets like stocks or crypto and need to replace the water heater you can get $500 at 6% instead of the 20% you would pay on a credit card. $1000 is enough to borrow $500 and be at 50% utilization, though $1600 would be better since that would only be 30% utilization. Plus you get to keep the interest bearing asset while younpay the loan off which you could use to lower your paid out of pocket interest even farther.
Doesn’t your credit score affect the type if interest you will get even on an assets lone? My understanding at least in the US credit scores affect basically all credit lines. That is why they recommend getting a credit card to help built you score. As long as you pay it off every month it is basically free use of someone else’s money. That builds up your credit score.
Yeah, if you are borrowing from stocks your credit score is a factor. However, the APR will still be way lower than any CC. With a crypto loan like i use no credit score is needed at all, just the assets to borrow from.
Sane and reasonable people spent several decades advocating the use of cash instead of cards since at least the 1970s, until we mostly gave up. Who knows, maybe the newly invigorated crazy people will do better. They can’t do much worse.
We have several stores that refuse to accept cash. A few weeks ago, we had a pretty harsh storm that knocked out power to major parts of the city for a little over a week. The area where these stores are was affected. All the stores next to them have always accepted cash. The surrounding stores continued to have business for that week, while those cash-deterrent stores had no business, and lost their edge (niche market, but they opened first in the area, so people knew them best). It’s been weeks, and those stores still have not picked up foot traffic to levels before the blackout, and one just had a liquidation sale and will likely close soon. Cash should always be an option. Otherwise, we give up our independence from the supporting systems (electricity, internet, payment processors, etc.). On a side note, cash is a lot more private than card.
I recently learned that all governments participating in the Euro guarantee that business have to accept cash. Refusing it is a violation of the accords.
I didn’t know that. That’s a cool tidbit!
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That is illegal where I am. Everyone has to accept cash, here.
I think it’s illegal here, too, but they started doing this at covid, after years of trying. If you fight them with it and try to make them accept cash, they’ll just ask you leave. If you stay after being asked to leave, you’re now trespassing, which is also illegal and is treated much more harshly than refusing to accept cash.
