The curated feed, now run by a team of six moderators, is the meeting ground for hundreds of thousands of Black users on Bluesky. Is it ready to meet the moment?
Well, they exist. Probably because a lot of the harrasment goes on in DMs or in followers only posts (or instances block them or they do dogwhistles etc).
Yes, but people are, regardless, still awful and so it’s not a place me or many others would recommend precisely because not many care enough to do anything about it. Which is exactly why I try to.
Yeah. It’s pretty telling that my entire time on Mastodon has been punctuated by black users complaining about how much racism they’re exposed to on the network, and everyone else going “I don’t see any racism!”
Like, ok, maybe you don’t. I don’t. I’m as white as snow, and don’t post about my experiences as a racialized person (not being one, and all). But it’s pretty clear, just from seeing the same exchange over and over again, that racialized people are experiencing something I’m not, and them expressing as much has Defenders of the Faith circling wagons every time it comes up.
Mastodon being a little more complicated than Twitter wouldn’t have been a major blocker to communities coming over. “Hey, join this site”, rather than “join Mastodon!” is all you need. But no one’s going to be telling black folks, or any other community, to come on over if the social atmosphere is at least as toxic as where they’re coming from.
Now with another alternative, Mastodon also needs to be better than “not being Twitter”. And the people who are there already seem to have zero interest in doing that.
People have had standing requests, and even PRs, for features for years. Many of them are for exact kinds of things Bluesky has implemented. Some have been for similar features but at the server level.
The requests have gone unheard, the PRs have been ignored. So, what I’d have Mastodon do is listen to those requesting better self-safety features, or hurry up and die so development team that actually gives a shit can gain some traction.
Comparing the “racism” present on a federated service to that on a centralized one doesn’t make sense. You can say certain instances of the service fail to adequately moderate racism, but there are so many niche pockets of mastodon that most people are exposed to, and moderated by, completely different groups.
To make a slightly more nerdy analogy, it’s like someone saying “the windows desktop experience is better than Linux”. Well Linux doesn’t come with a desktop interface, so that statement doesn’t make sense. Which of the dozens of windowers/distros are you talking about? I’m sure the criticism is fair, but it doesn’t contain enough information to make any real claim.
So it’s not unreasonable for one person to say “I see racism on Mastodon” and many others to say “I never see it”, and not just because of the races of the people involved. “Mastodon” refers to a protocol, not the various ecosystems that use it.
The problem in many cases isn’t that they don’t literally see it but that they aren’t aware of what constitutes racism a lot of the time. That’s the primary issue here. That and they don’t listen to those that have to endure the harrasment, or don’t believe them.
The problem in many cases isn’t that they don’t literally see it but that they aren’t aware of what constitutes racism a lot of the time.
I agree with this part, “in many cases” sure,
That’s the primary issue here.
…but I think this a strong claim to make unless you have data to back it up.
I believe you and I are likely speaking from our own anecdotal experience on the platform, and for all we know, most people are in instance bubbles and are also speaking from their own perspectives.
If the “primary issue” is “why do some people not report seeing racism?” and the two possible explanations are either “they see it but are not aware” and “they actually never see it”, then unless we have accurate data from all those bubbles, we can’t make any claims about which is the real explanation.
But if you have data on this, that would change everything.
How can Mastodon fix this? How is this a Mastodon issue vs. any kind of social media?
Mastodon is open source, as well, right? It feels like someone should be able to fork it if they’re really ignoring useful features that would help people.
Yeah it’s not a mastodon issue any more than racist speech is an issue with our ability to vocalize as humans.
Similarly, the solution to people saying racist things isn’t for all speech to be policed by a central authority, it’s for societies themselves to learn to identify and reject racism.
I don’t see them there.
Best thing about Mastodon is no insidious algorithm forcing stuff on you to specifically make you angry.
Well, they exist. Probably because a lot of the harrasment goes on in DMs or in followers only posts (or instances block them or they do dogwhistles etc).
Yes, but people are, regardless, still awful and so it’s not a place me or many others would recommend precisely because not many care enough to do anything about it. Which is exactly why I try to.
Yeah. It’s pretty telling that my entire time on Mastodon has been punctuated by black users complaining about how much racism they’re exposed to on the network, and everyone else going “I don’t see any racism!”
Like, ok, maybe you don’t. I don’t. I’m as white as snow, and don’t post about my experiences as a racialized person (not being one, and all). But it’s pretty clear, just from seeing the same exchange over and over again, that racialized people are experiencing something I’m not, and them expressing as much has Defenders of the Faith circling wagons every time it comes up.
Mastodon being a little more complicated than Twitter wouldn’t have been a major blocker to communities coming over. “Hey, join this site”, rather than “join Mastodon!” is all you need. But no one’s going to be telling black folks, or any other community, to come on over if the social atmosphere is at least as toxic as where they’re coming from.
Now with another alternative, Mastodon also needs to be better than “not being Twitter”. And the people who are there already seem to have zero interest in doing that.
I don’t use Mastodon so I have no idea what’s going on, but I am curious what y’all in this thread would want Mastodon to do.
Can’t you set up an instance and moderate it to your preference like other federation style apps?
What specific features are you saying are needed to make Mastodon more usable for any community that might find itself feeling less than welcome?
People have had standing requests, and even PRs, for features for years. Many of them are for exact kinds of things Bluesky has implemented. Some have been for similar features but at the server level.
The requests have gone unheard, the PRs have been ignored. So, what I’d have Mastodon do is listen to those requesting better self-safety features, or hurry up and die so development team that actually gives a shit can gain some traction.
Can you point me at them? Which ones?
I mean tools help somewhat but really the solution is on a social level, for people to start giving a shit.
Comparing the “racism” present on a federated service to that on a centralized one doesn’t make sense. You can say certain instances of the service fail to adequately moderate racism, but there are so many niche pockets of mastodon that most people are exposed to, and moderated by, completely different groups.
To make a slightly more nerdy analogy, it’s like someone saying “the windows desktop experience is better than Linux”. Well Linux doesn’t come with a desktop interface, so that statement doesn’t make sense. Which of the dozens of windowers/distros are you talking about? I’m sure the criticism is fair, but it doesn’t contain enough information to make any real claim.
So it’s not unreasonable for one person to say “I see racism on Mastodon” and many others to say “I never see it”, and not just because of the races of the people involved. “Mastodon” refers to a protocol, not the various ecosystems that use it.
The problem in many cases isn’t that they don’t literally see it but that they aren’t aware of what constitutes racism a lot of the time. That’s the primary issue here. That and they don’t listen to those that have to endure the harrasment, or don’t believe them.
I agree with this part, “in many cases” sure,
…but I think this a strong claim to make unless you have data to back it up.
I believe you and I are likely speaking from our own anecdotal experience on the platform, and for all we know, most people are in instance bubbles and are also speaking from their own perspectives.
If the “primary issue” is “why do some people not report seeing racism?” and the two possible explanations are either “they see it but are not aware” and “they actually never see it”, then unless we have accurate data from all those bubbles, we can’t make any claims about which is the real explanation.
But if you have data on this, that would change everything.
How can Mastodon fix this? How is this a Mastodon issue vs. any kind of social media?
Mastodon is open source, as well, right? It feels like someone should be able to fork it if they’re really ignoring useful features that would help people.
Yeah it’s not a mastodon issue any more than racist speech is an issue with our ability to vocalize as humans.
Similarly, the solution to people saying racist things isn’t for all speech to be policed by a central authority, it’s for societies themselves to learn to identify and reject racism.