My position isn’t rooted in a denial of history but in the belief that games, music, and films are creative, self-contained domains to be enjoyed on their own merits—not as platforms for political messaging.
The issue here is that every time I see someone complaining that a game is “woke” is when suddenly there are gay people, or people of colour, or women not looking like a hooters waitress in the game. And the reality here is that this isn’t being woke, it’s that the game is being based on reality. Gay people exist, always have, so do people of colour, and women of all types and men too. The people that make it political are the people that don’t want to see the real world and the people in it.
Now, I don’t know what you feel is “woke” and I’m not saying this is directed at you, but just because there are people that don’t fit some preconceived mold, and they are included in a game, doesn’t make it magically political.
like the oppressor-oppressed dynamic, which can be traced to Marxian economics, Critical Theory, and intersectionality. These are well-documented academic concepts
Provide the documentation. What does intersectionality have to do with Marxian economics? What authors have you read who discuss both?
A combination of: Marxian economics—specifically the framework of oppressor and oppressed—applied to social categories such as gender, race, and sexuality + Critical Theory from the Frankfurt School.
Marxian economics—specifically the framework of oppressor and oppressed—applied to social categories such as gender, race, and sexuality + Critical Theory from the Frankfurt School.
These have always been present in history, both in fact and fiction. Greeks vs Persians, Amazonians, China vs Western world (think Opium Wars and Boxer revolution), etc… These issues have always been there, this isn’t something new to the modern world and there are stories that have been around just as long with these same subjects.
This sudden overcompensation of swapping the gender, sexuality or race of characters in movies and games, under the guise of “celebrating diversity,” often feels less like a meaningful or thoughtful inclusion and more like a superficial, performative gesture. This trend is widespread and politically charged, driven not by genuine artistic intent but by a desire to align with current cultural trends.
Or it matches the more modern world. Today, more people can travel and move to different countries. More and more places have more and more people of different backgrounds, race, gender, sexuality that are in the public view. To not put these people in is to not understand today’s world and the people in it. Go outside and really look around, see how many people now don’t look like you, don’t dress like you and/or don’t act like you. Also, keep in mind where the games you are comparing them to are made, and understand what the developers see in their day to day life because that is more in line with what they’d know.
A game that’s got well written characters representing minorities or which includes political theming and executes it well (e.g. Bioshock, Fallout 2 or Disco Elysium) is more woke than any other. That kind of game’s core concept is to make a strong point about structural injustice in society.
Games with token representation or the plot is thin but the main character is a woman so you’re sexist of you don’t buy it are generally not woke at all. They’re only pretending to be as a marketing strategy. They’re not doing anything to make anyone think about structural injustice in society, and are instead appealing to the common don’t be horrible to groups that it was normal to be horrible to decades ago that their market research team determined were already agreed with by most of their potential customers. It’s just capitalism noticing that mysogynists etc. are no longer the largest demographic and being very unsubtle when signalling that the product thinks women are people.
There are a small number of very vocal people who complain about both kinds of game. They don’t want people to acknowledge that treating women as people is now the default, but even more than that, they don’t want people to play Bioshock as then if they’re shown anything by Ayn Rand, they’ll be immediately able to spot the flawed logic on her philosophy. They’re careful to make sure to present it as if they’re only complaining about the virtue-signalling-as-marketing kind as everyone recognises that they’re generally crap, so it makes it look like they’re making a reasonable argument. It also means people amplify the argument, but by using phrases like woke instead of badly written it makes it easier to correctly label well-written games containing politics they disagree with as woke, too, and have people make the association with being badly written annoying slop by themselves, without having people who’ve played the game point out that it is well-written and someone saying otherwise is an idiot.
Hey buddy, turning every response into a recitation of the “List of Fallacies” poster you likely have up above your monitor doesn’t mean you’re “winning”. If you have an actual point to make, just make it and stop debating how people debate.
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The issue here is that every time I see someone complaining that a game is “woke” is when suddenly there are gay people, or people of colour, or women not looking like a hooters waitress in the game. And the reality here is that this isn’t being woke, it’s that the game is being based on reality. Gay people exist, always have, so do people of colour, and women of all types and men too. The people that make it political are the people that don’t want to see the real world and the people in it.
Now, I don’t know what you feel is “woke” and I’m not saying this is directed at you, but just because there are people that don’t fit some preconceived mold, and they are included in a game, doesn’t make it magically political.
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Oh look, the Cultural Marxism conspiracy theory.
I think you’ve been consuming too much Jordan Petersen.
That whole theory was rooted in anti-semitism and some weird mistrust that Jews were imposing culture on them. It’s the biggest load of baloney.
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Provide the documentation. What does intersectionality have to do with Marxian economics? What authors have you read who discuss both?
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Have you read Women, Race and Class?
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bro who is putting that in video games
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These have always been present in history, both in fact and fiction. Greeks vs Persians, Amazonians, China vs Western world (think Opium Wars and Boxer revolution), etc… These issues have always been there, this isn’t something new to the modern world and there are stories that have been around just as long with these same subjects.
Or it matches the more modern world. Today, more people can travel and move to different countries. More and more places have more and more people of different backgrounds, race, gender, sexuality that are in the public view. To not put these people in is to not understand today’s world and the people in it. Go outside and really look around, see how many people now don’t look like you, don’t dress like you and/or don’t act like you. Also, keep in mind where the games you are comparing them to are made, and understand what the developers see in their day to day life because that is more in line with what they’d know.
A game that’s got well written characters representing minorities or which includes political theming and executes it well (e.g. Bioshock, Fallout 2 or Disco Elysium) is more woke than any other. That kind of game’s core concept is to make a strong point about structural injustice in society.
Games with token representation or the plot is thin but the main character is a woman so you’re sexist of you don’t buy it are generally not woke at all. They’re only pretending to be as a marketing strategy. They’re not doing anything to make anyone think about structural injustice in society, and are instead appealing to the common don’t be horrible to groups that it was normal to be horrible to decades ago that their market research team determined were already agreed with by most of their potential customers. It’s just capitalism noticing that mysogynists etc. are no longer the largest demographic and being very unsubtle when signalling that the product thinks women are people.
There are a small number of very vocal people who complain about both kinds of game. They don’t want people to acknowledge that treating women as people is now the default, but even more than that, they don’t want people to play Bioshock as then if they’re shown anything by Ayn Rand, they’ll be immediately able to spot the flawed logic on her philosophy. They’re careful to make sure to present it as if they’re only complaining about the virtue-signalling-as-marketing kind as everyone recognises that they’re generally crap, so it makes it look like they’re making a reasonable argument. It also means people amplify the argument, but by using phrases like woke instead of badly written it makes it easier to correctly label well-written games containing politics they disagree with as woke, too, and have people make the association with being badly written annoying slop by themselves, without having people who’ve played the game point out that it is well-written and someone saying otherwise is an idiot.
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Hey buddy, turning every response into a recitation of the “List of Fallacies” poster you likely have up above your monitor doesn’t mean you’re “winning”. If you have an actual point to make, just make it and stop debating how people debate.
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Lol, good one.
Mmm