• Snapz@lemmy.world
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    19 days ago

    Plain and simple… She was a woman, and a black person - There will be months of tap dancing and “deep” analysis, but we’re just an ugly, atrophied, broken, racist and patriarchal nation, like deep down in our DNA. We were able to elect Obama, yes - he is half white, and a man (those weren’t the loud messages as they attacked him, but Pennsylvania gramma knew those things quietly when she pulled the lever for him). It’s not satisfying, but it’s just the plain truth here. We’re closer to getting over race than we are over sex.

    Plenty of deliberate work has been done, mostly by republicans, to keep America stupid, poor and in untreated pain, yes… But we’re also just trash on the whole. We raise trash and we vote for trash. We just aren’t smarter than social algorithms, TV soap opera narratives, costumes and makeup. “The pretend business man is white, old, wears a tie and has a gold watch. He feels like how daddy felt when I was little, and when things are bad, daddy fixed them the way I remember it.”

    Video game trolls, people who failed the cop application physical and triple DUI wine moms are America. No further explanation or analysis needed.

    • Fredselfish@lemmy.world
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      19 days ago

      I remember hearing many democrats that joked how they voted for the white side of Obama. It wasn’t funny and isn’t funny now. They are not only voting against a woman but one of color.

      We are going let christian fascism take control of America because a large portion of our population is sexiest, and racist. Not to mention all those protest votes or fucker who sat on their couch rather than do the right thing.

      Now we are all fucked.

    • LappingDog@sh.itjust.works
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      19 days ago

      I voted for Harris walz, but I think a lot of this is the fault of Biden for trying to run for reelection and sticking it out until July. I live in the south and I think the lack of a primary reallly hurt the ticket because a sizable portion of the people I’ve talked to felt like she was appointed instead of being elected, which is a bad move when public trust in our institutions is already at an all time low.

      • Croquette@sh.itjust.works
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        19 days ago

        This is all excuses. The fact that Trump made it all the way as the primary candidate for the GOP means that Republicans were okay with what he said and what he did.

        For a normal person, it shouldn’t even take a second to choose Harris. But this isn’t the case. Trump won the popular vote and the presidency despite all the crazy shit because a sizeable part of the citizens voted him in regardless of the reason.

        And not only that, but Republicans won the senate and well on their way to win the house.

        It is about to get real bad, and Americans have themselves to blame for that.

      • Krauerking@lemy.lol
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        19 days ago

        Institutional democrats who thought they knew what they were doing and could ignore the base of the party is to blame. Biden being top of the list. Stubborn self assured who when finally pushed to change was only willing to do it on his terms. And made a decision for everyone, again.

        One of the big stories is a Democratic party Mayor of a super Blue city being corrupt and organizing police to defend him and yet not a single member of the party has spoken out against it. Endorsed by Hakeem Jeffries.

        Status quo is far more important than listening to their base right now and hopefully it changes instead of them once again thinking they need to head further right.

        And for the love all things holy I hope the Democrats learn to stop “gaming” the election with specific counties in “blue walls” because they did advanced math that told them it was all they needed. Bare minimum should never have been the goal.

      • Snapz@lemmy.world
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        18 days ago

        The people you talked to are bigoted cowards that wouldn’t have been swayed by any of that shit - She has a vagina and she’s black - That’s all it was ever going to be.

        You’re hearing the thing they hope their neighbor would think of them after the fact, " I was this close, Bill… I just wanted more policy detail… More time… If only they didn’t make me vote for trump".

        Your neighbor fucking sucks, Bill - this is the time you pause, take a breath, and fully internalize that to inform your future interactions.

        • GiveMemes@jlai.lu
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          18 days ago

          Shit dude, I’m far left, believed that the only way to protect democracy was to vote for Harris, and then did it, but even I felt like she was appointed. Nobody wanted her as a first choice but we were forced to accept her when she succeeded Biden. She got 14 million less votes than Biden did in 2020. That isn’t only because she’s a black woman. It certainly plays a part, but we can’t act like it wasn’t just general voter malaise that led to this outcome.

          • Snapz@lemmy.world
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            18 days ago

            It’s not “just” the fact that she has a vagina, its that that was always going to be the deciding factor. There’s nuance in understanding the distinction there.

            • GiveMemes@jlai.lu
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              18 days ago

              So your argument is that she got 14 million less votes than Joe specifically because she’s a woman? Because I struggle to see how it could be the “deciding factor” otherwise.

              • Bacano@lemmy.world
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                18 days ago

                I agree, it’s an oversimplification. The Democratic party has become the party of ‘going back to business as usual’ and refuses to lower it’s commitment to the corporations that fund it. Trump won 2016 because he was a genuine establishment shaker.

                Leftists need a rouge candidate who refuses to bow. Someone who shows promise of CHANGE and not business as usual.

                • UltraGiGaGigantic@lemmy.ml
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                  18 days ago

                  Leftists need a rouge candidate who refuses to bow. Someone who shows promise of CHANGE and not business as usual.

                  Democrats have proven that they will sue to strip such a person from the ballot. How can they claim to defend democracy while hiding behind First-past-the-post voting?

                  • GiveMemes@jlai.lu
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                    18 days ago

                    Because first past the post voting is a form of democracy, whether or not either of us have qualms with it. What is not democratic, in any way, shape, or form, is disrupting the peaceful transfer of power, which Trump has literally done, not to mention the intended destruction of the federal system under project 2025, which based on your response, I can tell you’ve done no research into.

                    Are the parties both bad? Sure. Is one objectively and provably better for the democratic institutions of the US? Abso-fucking-lutely.

              • ObliviousEnlightenment@lemmy.world
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                18 days ago

                Yes. That is their argument. Because most men of alll races, and even most white women favored him. He got less votes than 2020, and won the popular, got a trifecta.

    • Cornelius_Wangenheim@lemmy.world
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      19 days ago

      Obama was a unique situation in that he was both an incredibly charismatic JFK-style figure and ran after the Republicans had managed to both start a very unpopular war and destroy the world economy.

          • Captain Aggravated@sh.itjust.works
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            18 days ago

            Those nakedly misandrist ads were brought to my attention after I cast my ballot.

            I’ve never voted for a Republican in my life, but the Democrats will have to actually earn my vote if they ever run a candidate again, they may no longer expect me.

            Blame me as much as you want, you’re going to anyway. I’m the bad guy even when voting your way so what’sthe point? Those who cannot bring themselves to speak to me with respect to literally save their lives can die as mad as they want.

            • Snapz@lemmy.world
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              17 days ago

              “Look what you made me do!” just dripping…

              Maybe work on having some established personal principles and some backbone? Maybe less wielding your vote as a little golden cudgel over people’s heads? Why the fuck does your vote for a complex full administration of people including court appointees that will serve long terms as they all pursue at least four years worth of basic, roll up the sleeves and work day to day policy, all hinge on one targeted ad that hurts your feefees?

              And studies have shown that people who casually drop the word “misandrist” have videos from matt walsh and nick fuentes in their YouTube watch history arguing that the age of consent is too high.

              • Captain Aggravated@sh.itjust.works
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                17 days ago

                See what I mean?

                I’m going to get screamed at like I’m the bad guy ANYWAY. There is no winning to be done here. I’m not voting for a party that is pro woman ever again. I’m done voting against my own interests for people who hate me. It’s all I’ve done my entire adult life. No more.

                • Snapz@lemmy.world
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                  17 days ago

                  “I’m done voting against my own interests” [votes republican]

                  Showing your ass there, bud.

                  And you haven’t had an “entire adult life”. Judging by the way you speak, you’re either a 14 year old boy or you’re not even in America.

                  “I was totally gonna not be a piece of shit, too. You blew it everyone! You could have had ME on your side.”

        • 4grams@awful.systems
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          17 days ago

          this is why she lost, morons complaining about themselves. who fucking cares, that ad was not targetted at you, and if it was, grow some thicker fucking skin rather than voting for a fascist. I don’t give a shit if the dems personally put me on a pedastal and said I was alone to blame for the US problems; I have a functional brain and can see what the actual problems are and who has actual solutions, or at least not exclusively ways to enrich himself and get revenge.

          middle aged white dudes are the problem, I’m one of them. this morning, I was nearly assulted and arrested due to a roadrage incident. a dude in a pickup nearly sideswiped me at an intersection, I had to swerve to avoid him. At the light, he rolled down the window and started yelling at me. I rolled down mine because I honestly thought he was going to apologise but instead he started screaming insults at me because “you couldn’t let me have that one car length!!!”. I told him that after the shit this country just endured, this was how we wanted to handle things?

          This was apparently the wrong answer because he jumped out of his car and started coming at me. I am not interested in a road rage altercation so I floored it and ran the red light. I would up cutting off a cop who saw the whole thing and let me go because I did the right thing.

          this was my first interaction with a person since the election. I sincerly hope this was just tensions running high, but I can’t help but feel this nation just gave that sort of problem solving it’s full throated support.

          • Captain Aggravated@sh.itjust.works
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            17 days ago

            2024 was the last time I’ll ever vote for a Democrat, especially given how I’m being spoken to for doing it.

            I’m done voting for the side that calls me their enemy no matter what I do. I’m done going out of my way for people who hate me. I’m done doing “the right thing” for people who are offended at the idea of expressing gratitude. It’s been this way my entire adult life and I’ve got a belly full.

            “Hey, you’re going to need the support of white men to win this election, so you should probably address their concerns in good faith here.” Nope. That wasn’t acceptable to the Left. The people who said that got shouted down. A couple ads like the one linked below plus others got made that were very obviously designed to conform to feminist attitudes toward men first and demand of men second. They did indeed recognize that they needed my vote, but weren’t willing to try seeing eye to eye with me at all. Saving the nation from fascism and preserving their own rights, freedoms and lives in the process wasn’t a good enough reason to speak to people like me with respect. And now they can burn for it. And they’re going to blame me for it, just like they’ve blamed me for everything their entire lives.

                • 4grams@awful.systems
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                  17 days ago

                  you sound just like the motherfucker who tried to jump me this AM.

                  speak to people like me with respect. And now they can burn for it

              • M0oP0o@mander.xyz
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                17 days ago

                Cool, lets fight authoritarianism by only letting people vote and be part of one party. That will sure to work out, not like this concept failed not 2 days ago or anything…

                • 4grams@awful.systems
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                  17 days ago

                  huh?

                  where in anything I ever said did I even mention one party or anything? This is because reactionary idiots don’t do research and/or don’t care enough about others when their special little feels get squishy… boo hoo…

                  I’m not a democrat, I very nearly didn’t vote because I couldn’t get behind either candidate but in the end it was a VERY easy choice given the realities of the situation. we now have a man, who is publically traded on the stock market, who praises dictators and authoritarians, who’s sworn revenge on political enemies, who’s plans are to deport millions, free a bunch of his violent supporters, destroy the economy with the dumbest economic plan in history because of this shitshow of an election. you could see it, I could see it, it was all there and obvious and you chucklefucks are sitting here complaining about your feels.

                  • M0oP0o@mander.xyz
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                    17 days ago

                    Ok you are upset because you think someone voted for one of only two parties counter to your “VERY easy choice” and that would leave only one option. That would mean a single “correct” way to vote, the same stance the Dems took in 2016, 2020 and 2024.

                    Lets walk though this, You are getting upset that when people talk about voters of a demographic not feeling represented by one of only two parties someone steps up to give their own personal example. The same party that just lost to what is clearly a fascist due in part to not getting the vote of above demographic. You instead start slinging shit to someone for even thinking about not voting “the right way” (see above how they say “2024 was the last time I will ever vote for a democrat”) by laughably calling them a snowflake or a reactionary idiot (I guess this could also be me) instead of even pretending to read what you are replying to.

                    Neither myself (not from the USA) or the person above voted for Trump. The point I am pressing here is that the person who is getting their “special little feels get squishy… boo hoo…” seems to be you. You are advocating what? Shut up and take my guilt? Feel bad about living in a nation that given a choice between the status quo and fascism chose fascism chose fascism?

      • Katana314@lemmy.world
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        19 days ago

        “Imagined” is perhaps the right word considering he wanted to raise taxes for low income people, and lower taxes for rich people.

        • Krauerking@lemy.lol
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          19 days ago

          Oh yeah. But it’s people’s perceptions that everyone is hunting for anyways. It’s fake love for the working class in the way the rich love their butler but will replace him if he ever gets sick.

          But that perception and the story of the party is super important and how to win elections. The Democrats haven’t been chasing that identity and let it slip while trying to figure out who should be the candidate that cost the least amount of money for its donors.

          It’s not impossible to see how the perceptions got to where they are.

          • UltraGiGaGigantic@lemmy.ml
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            18 days ago

            Oh yeah. But it’s people’s perceptions that everyone is hunting for anyways. It’s fake love for the working class in the way the rich love their butler but will replace him if he ever gets sick.

            But that perception and the story of the party is super important and how to win elections. The Democrats haven’t been chasing that identity and let it slip while trying to figure out who should be the candidate that cost the least amount of money for its donors.

            Why does the love of the working class have to be fake?!?!?!?

            Holy fucking hell, democrats have lost their mind.

    • NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io
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      19 days ago

      Setting aside whether she would’ve won had she been a white man, she could’ve made up for that handicap by appealing to the right people if she had actually been trying to win. Pinning it completely on her race and sex simply ignores her absolute failure of a campaign.

    • phdepressed@sh.itjust.works
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      19 days ago

      While this is a large part of it, a significant thing I think is that you get a lot more enthusiasm voting for something than against something. If she was campaigning for things I didn’t hear it above the constant “orange shit is an orange shit”.

      A number of terrorist bomb threats to predominantly democratic polling locations in swing states and other fuckery may have also played a role.

            • UltraGiGaGigantic@lemmy.ml
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              18 days ago

              False choice dilemma.

              Democrats need to swallow their pride and arrogance and admit to themselves that they shouldn’t be going solo against the republicans.

              Do away with First Past The Post voting in blue states and let more players onto the field. This fight is bigger then the democratic party.

              • phdepressed@sh.itjust.works
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                18 days ago

                Well start figuring out how to get it as a ballot measure in your state now then do what’s left of our democracy a favor, swallow your pettiness and vote for the lesser evil until you get RCV in your area.

                Greens and other parties are only doing favors for the facists as things stand right now.

    • OpenStars@piefed.social
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      19 days ago

      I get more the sense that people don’t care about her so much - or him either for that matter - so much as how things in general just “feel wrong”. I’m no expert but the news media having been bought out seems a likely culprit. Jon Stewart tried to warn us but we would not listen. He did his part, but if people don’t value things, they tend to fall - or in this case be taken - apart.

    • wlodi@szmer.info
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      19 days ago

      Totally agree. After all the progress the US is still not ready to accept anyone else than white men at the top.

    • quink@lemmy.ml
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      19 days ago

      Should have stuck with the British Monarchy, powerless as it comes. A woman as head of state for 70 years and even better, no elections for any president during any of time.

    • 4grams@awful.systems
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      17 days ago

      Bingo. The party of stupid, obstinant assholes was elected by the stupid, obstinant asshole electorate.