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This is normal day for a bmw driver.
I know this is fuckcars, but that’s not even a car thing - it’s a human thing, and all the worse for it:-(.
The thing is, if you both were on a bike, the interaction would have so much less potential to have become accidentally deadly:-).
cars bring out the worst in people.
Yup. Ironically I think it’s that feeling of pseudoanonymity that does it, which seems backed up by how people often behave online. It allows someone’s true colors to come out, whatever they may be.
Nah for me it’s the fact that people act like cars aren’t death machines. Like I get all the anti car arguments and agree with the vast majority of them except for one big one.
Get out of the way. You know cars are dangerous so get out of the way. Even if it’s inconvenient. You will lose that fight every single time so why even start it in the first place?
The people who really need to acknowledge that cars can be death machines are the people driving them.
I mean agreed but again everyone else needs to treat them as such as well.
You can’t call it a death machine and then act like it’s just a slight inconvenience. That’s how you die.
People are scared of plane crashes (especially with Boeing involved - hey-oh!), but they forget: BY FAR the most dangerous portion of every flight is the drive to and from the airport (assuming those are involved).
Then how come all the toxic people on Lemmy are the sorts that have established reputations and an identity?
Wait wait wait wait wait - what is this, toxicity on… Lemmy?! That’s unpossible!
I think cars and car culture are inextricably linked to this kind of behavior, and it gets worse with bigger cars. People definitely can ride bikes like assholes but it’s less common-something about having zero barriers between a person and the world makes them less susceptible to acting like the world isn’t there.
Driving around in a climate controlled cockpit with surround stereo, splashing rain and mud on all those who they pass by, while laughing at “the poors” who cannot afford to drive or perhaps soon helicopter around everywhere. It definitely has an effect - bc Power Corrupts.
But it’s not solely their fault - the fault is also (or even… primarily?) ours for voting in such a way that so much space is dedicated to these rich assholes, while leaving no room for ourselves.
Though also, I bet this asshole would have been just as douchy if both sides of the conflict here had been walking. So the car made the situation so much worse, rather than creating it.
Back in the day they wanted cops to appear more friendly so they would drive convertibles. Not having a hard cabin between them and their watch “made them more approachable”.
Whereas nowadays they are bulletproof!
When I lived in Calgary I almost got hit at crosswalks jogging with my dog countless times. By the time I moved away I was ready to throw the fuck down every time someone almost killed me or my dog (unless they gave me some sign that they were apologetic, which was very rarely). wtf is wrong with these people? Watch for people not in fucking cars, there’s crosswalks and bike laws for a reason, there’s other people doing shit in the world than just you. And I am not above breaking your mirror off your vehicle if you piss me off.
There are crosswalk and bike laws, but if you were killed by a car there’d be almost no consequences for the driver. Don’t trust any car at a crosswalk and be responsible for your own safety. Take it one lane at a time and make sure the car in that lane is stopped, or at least sees you for sure and you can tell the car is stopping and not getting ready to turn or something like that. Eye contact with the driver.
As an additional precaution, authorities also recommend bringing a brick no less than 1kg in mass to show to drivers while crossing.
Oh for sure. I realize I’m responsible for my own safety on the road, which is why me and my dog are still alive. Doesn’t mean it doesn’t piss me off.
https://bimmerlife.com/2020/10/31/study-bmw-drivers-are-the-rudest/
BMW drivers are the worst. It’s science.
Tesla drivers have been overtaking (or at least rising to the level of) BMW drivers as the worst on the road.
Around here the worst drivers are mostly larger cars. Broncos, wagoneer, range rovers, etc. Tesla drivers sometimes try to get zippy, same as BMW sefan drivers, etc. But the larger car drivers are aggressive af, tailing you reeeeeeeal close for however long it takes before they can whip around you.
I don’t agree. In fact, the Tesla drivers around me are some of the better drivers. I still hate Tesla though.
That has not been my experience at all. I guess we just need more data.
Every Tesla driver I’ve seen in traffic has driven like they expect the car to drive itself if they fuck up. I would bet money that most people who got a Tesla want the self-driving features because they can’t fucking drive.
ESH IMO, the “Not gonna let them pass me crowd” is almost as dangerous as the wreckless driver crowd. Just let them pass, if you feel they are breaking the law then report them accordingly.
Stop taking the law into your own hands, it’s dangerous.
It’s a one lane one way street, there’s nothing to let them pass though. They were just driving responsibly from the sounds of it.
on a single file one-way side street with 2 designated bike lanes. He was furious that I wouldn’t let him speed past him
The description is weird, but it sounds to me like there’s 1 lane for cars and 2 (narrow) bike lanes on either side and the biker was in the middle to prevent him from passing
They were just driving responsibly from the sounds of it.
That may be so, but pulling to the side to let an aggressive driver pass you is the smarter choice. Especially on a bike. Bike vs Car faceoffs usually don’t end well for the biker.
You may have missed the part where the driver of the BMW “hopped the curb” “at 70”. I have some doubts about the speed, but if you’re going over a curb at speed to try to pass someone, you’re in the wrong.
Never said he wasn’t, but the biker was also putting his and his kids life at risk just to make a statement. The same type of aggressive driver who will “hop the curb at 70” are also the same who are unpredictable and could lose it and run you over.
Is taking the law into your own hands just to make a statement really worth your or your children’s lives? When you could have just avoided the entire situation by pulling to the side and letting the aggressive driver pass while you noted down the license plate?
Sorry, that wasn’t my point. If the driver had to hop a curb to threaten the cyclist, how would the cyclist have been able to simply “pulled to the side” to let him past when there’s a curb between them.
Ah gotcha, yea the OOP post isn’t particularly clear, but from my understanding there was a time before the driver got fully enraged where the biker could have pulled off onto the curb themselves
It does seem like there’s something “off” about that description. Itd be interesting to know where this all happened.
I can imagine a driver raging at a cyclist and then later chasing them and hopping a curb to threaten. Or hopping the curb onto a sidewalk to pass them and swerving back onto the road in a threatening manner. Both strike me as very much dangerous and disproportionate reactions to having to go a bit slow for 30 seconds.
The swerving at them was when coming back off the curb into the road, I think. If there was a curb between them, there’s no way the cyclist was preventing him from passing.
Edit: crappy drawing
Most likely one contraflow bike lane, plus one car lane with sharrow, like this.
Also, bike needs to be in the center of the lane to avoid the door-zone.
No, the group of people who don’t kill any people with their vehicles is not “just as dangerous” as the group who kills 25,000+ people/year
I like biking but don’t do much of it anymore because of crazy drivers.
I’m sure plenty of pedestrians have been killed by cyclists. I’ve almost been run over multiple times by spandex warriors running red lights. I’m not convinced if you looked at percentages and not raw numbers you wouldn’t find just as many irresponsible cyclists as you do drivers. I see multiple drivers doing something stupid every day and I see a cyclist every week or two doing something stupid. Difference is I see 200 cars a day and 4 cyclists.
The best thing for your safety on a bike is to let the aggressive driver go, not to police them. Antagonizing an irate driver is a recipe for disaster no matter if you are in a car, on a bike or a pedestrian.
I’m sure plenty of pedestrians have been killed by cyclists.
I did some quick searching and found 2019 data from Europe. In all of the EU that year, bicycles killed 19 pedestrians while cars killed 3200 pedestrians. Over 168 pedestrians killed by a car for each killed by a bicycle. I know there are plenty of irresponsible cyclists, and yet they are still a tiny fraction as dangerous as a driver.
The “Not gonna let them pass me crowd” includes both drivers and bikers.
Taking the lane shouldn’t be necessary if there are actual bike lanes and you don’t need to turn. This sounds like deliberately blocking traffic.
You may be correct, but if I’m not fully convinced there are proper bike lanes both ways in OOP’s post.
If the cyclist provision is a “sharrow” then the bike should be in the centre of the lane. If the cyclist is turning left without proper turning infrastructure they can be in the centre of the lane. If it’s a divided lane then they should be on the side.
Really depends on conditions. Many “bike lanes” have unsafe road hazards, glass, are immediately in the door zone of parked cars, etc. Getting doored is one of the most common causes of cyclists being sent to the hospital with major injuries.
A well laid out, well maintained bike lane is a better alternative to taking the lane. However, in the cases where the bike lane is hazardous it’s always better to take the lane than to risk getting injured in an unsafe bike lane.
Agreed, but “I wouldn’t let him past” sounds a lot like deliberate blocking.
Hey it’s an entitled little man in the flesh. As a lifelong biker fuck you. My taxes pay for the roads too. Cars are traffic so it makes no sense for them to get impatient and risk the lives of others. The car is the one not obeying the laws.
The car is the one not obeying the laws.
Yes and I said:
if you feel they are breaking the law then report them accordingly.
You’re putting your own life in danger when you do crap like that, all it’ll take is one aggressive driver having a particularly bad day to run you over. Sure, they’ll probably get arrested and face consequences for that, but it won’t really matter all that much to you when you’re dead.
It’s like debating with the “fuck seatbelts” people stg.
It isn’t about stubbornly not letting people past it is called riding defensively. People pass far too fucking close in their cars and usually at too high a speed. If you place yourself in a position where they can’t pass you until there is enough room to do so safely then it protects yourself more from these idiotic cunts. I couldn’t care less if I am pissing you off if it means you aren’t going to put my life at risk trying to squeeze past me.
Bikes have as much right to be on the road as cars and if you wanted to could ride right in the middle of the lane and that is still completely within the law if that is what you are so concerned about. In fact being the smaller and more vulnerable of the road users the bike has the right of way in the eyes of the law so the driver, by law, should be giving way to the cyclist. They should also be giving 1.5m of space when they do pass the cyclist which 75% of people don’t do.
Most drivers don’t know the rules and laws of the road and just make up their own like you are now pretending people are “taking the law into their own hands” because you car brained fucks want to get to where you are going 30 seconds faster.
Clearly, you didn’t understand my original comment or read anything else in the thread, here’s another comment I wrote earlier:
You’re putting your own life in danger when you do crap like that, all it’ll take is one aggressive driver having a particularly bad day to run you over. Sure, they’ll probably get arrested and face consequences for that, but it won’t really matter all that much to you when you’re dead.
It’s like debating with the “fuck seatbelts” people stg.
With that attitude, you’ll likely end up as a statistic. You’re just as bad as the entitled “car brains”, except things go badly in Car vs Bike scenarios for the biker.
You obviously have no idea what you are talking about or how to ride defensively when you are a cyclist on the road.
“Almost ironically, the way to make yourself safer while cycling on the road is by being in the way. ‘Defensive cycling’ helps you do that by preventing other road users from taking advantage of your relatively small size and slow speed.”
https://www.edinburghbicycle.com/blog/what-is-defensive-cycling
Many cyclists try to be courteous to motor vehicles by sticking as close to the side of the road as possible. Even though that does give drivers more room to pass, it also makes you harder to spot. Try to be at least three or four feet (one metre) away from the edge of the road. If you’re not blending in with the curb or the sidewalk, it will be easier for turning motor vehicles to spot you."
https://pedalstreet.com/defensive-cycling/#Do_not_hug_the_curb
"Don’t ride near the curbs.
Give yourself 2-3 feet of space to bail out in case a vehicle comes too close."
https://www.thegeekycyclist.com/tips/bicycle-safety-tips/
I one of your responses you say they should just hop up on to the curb, no, never! The footpath is for pedestrians, people walking, not for riding bikes on. Then you are putting pedestrians at risk.
And constantly saying you should “take down their VRM and report them to someone” as if that will do any good at all, the police couldn’t care less about that kind of stuff and achieves absolutely nothing. Jog on mate.
That’s all for normal traffic/day to day
I’m talking about after someone has clearly started on a path of aggression and road rage as described by OOP. People have been shot or run over or run into (if in a car, I’m not even talking about just bikers) over slights like cutting someone off.
Once someone has demonstrated severe aggression like described, it’s time to get out of the way, not amplify it
Nah, let em kill me. Fuck it.
I was on my way to my kids school (with bike seat)
Reckless drivers would be quite wreckful.
Lots of drivers pass too close and too fast, and the majority of the time they want to zoom past me only to roll stop through the next stop sign or wait for me to arrive at the crosswalk and press the light. They’ll also stop if a car is parking, or another car coming in the opposite. Nah, they can wait for me on my bike or they can use another any of the 100 roads specifically designated for them.
Though, not all the time. If I’m taking the lane it’s for a reason. It doesn’t help when drivers then use that moment to ride up right behind me. Car drivers treat bikers like shit and expect to be treated like royalty.
Into a red light though? Sounds like there’s more to the story
As a car-owner and someone who’s glad to now live in an area with phblic transportation I can confidently say that people are just astoundingly stupid, short-sighted, and impatient. Also blind, apparently, because they will ride my ass, cut someone off beside me to rip by, only to jump in front of me and slam the brakes because I’m not going slower than the people in front of me just because I’m leaving space. They’re in an SUV and my BRZ is barely over 4’ tall so they should be able to see just fine. If I’m really lucky I get to watch them pull into slower traffic beside me just because there’s some space for half a second and then have to wait for me to pass them after they got stuck behind the large truck that was always there but they somehow missed. And since it’ll need being said my top speed on the highway is plenty fast so if I’m not doing it it’s because there’s traffic and we all can’t go any faster.
People fucking suck and are stupid as hell, and rich or pseudo-rich Torontonians try really hard to be the best at being the worst, especially when they get the pleasure of endangering a person on a bicycle. I’m not the least bit surprised by any of this.
It’s been a good three years since I had to gaze upon any traffic situations on Turtle Island. I don’t miss it
I think Canada should be ashamed of the 401. Widest Highway in North America, and the competition is fierce. Good on you for distancing yourself from this.
Treating bikers poorly is not just a U.S. thing, I’ve seen it the EU too, pretty nasty interactions. Drivers should be heavily fined for endangering people in more vulnerable situations.
Edit multiple people saying losing driving privileges, I think it usually works that way for repeat offenders. If someone does it once and the fine deters them then mission accomplished
Fined? They shouldn’t have the privilege of driving.
Then they will just drive without a driving license like sovcits and police just won’t bother pulling them over.
If the only consequence of breaking the law is a fine, then it’s legal for the rich to do it. If a person can not be trusted to drive safely, they shouldn’t be allowed to drive.
BMW lost any enthusiasm from me when they introduced subscription car features. I think they did it before anyone else.
Now I’m happy to think of BMW as full-throated supporters of the German Reich.
I could have written the exact same paragraph even though I live on the other side of the planet. It’s crazy how universal this shit seems to be.
That ad at though at the end. 🤏
As someone who does enjoy cars, fuck BMW owners, they are always the stupidest, angriest, pettiest drivers on the road. I wouldn’t invite one to my wedding.
I’m just saying this because yesterday I drove behind a BMW M5 driver who was the exact opposite of an aggressive driver. They were so cautious and considerate of others around them I actually took notice. Broke my world for a moment, I expected them to be a jerk but nope. It was a welcomed weird.
I divorced one and they are now with another BMW driver.
Oh no they teamed up! Twice the terror!
Yeah, now there is nobody who can stop them.
Can confirm. Just walked the Camino and everyone I talked to had a bad experience with BMW drivers. The brand is like a dickhead magnet.
Anybody have experience adding a dashcam to their bike? I wonder if documenting these cases could help start change
Go on ‘The Youtube’, there are thousands of videos of bicyclists with dash cams in hairy situations.
There’s an app for that - it’s called, succinctly, “dashcam for your bike”. They sell clip-on phone holders for your bike and do some image stabilization in the video they record, and have integration so you can report people/items blocking the bike lane to the local infrastructure. Would recommend.
I can only imagine the invisible typewriter used by my city when a report comes in like that.
Forwarded directly to the “we’ll get right on that” department
Heh, full disclosure: I was in a startup program with the dude who makes it so I’m def biased, but in Pittsburgh they put bollards on a road to establish separation for the bike lane with credit to the reports from the app giving them historical tracking on how prevalent it was. So yeah, reports may not send out someone posthaste, but they can improve the situation for sure.
That works. Also, having the bike lane on an elevated level above car traffic works well.
The BMW comes with the special edition highway code has that extra rule at the end.
I didn’t think it was true until I was a passenger in one and the driver - whom I previously thought to be a semi-sane human - missed the motorway junction that we wanted; this is no problem at all for BMW, it has hazards and a reversing gear . . . genius!
Sounds about right. I had a similar encounter with a commercial minivan driver on a 30 kph backstreet in Toronto.
