• eacapesamsara@sh.itjust.works
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    14
    ·
    3 months ago

    His statement is the objectively correct side of morality and the law. Every person is presumed innocent until proven guilty in court. If you disagree with this notion you have no place in any society created after the 1600s.

    • thesporkeffect@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      4
      ·
      edit-2
      3 months ago

      Okay, I don’t disagree with the statement on the face of it, that’s not what I was reacting to. Why say anything at all, if you are Jeffries? It’s not like it’s going to come out that it was all a big misunderstanding.

      E: alright, I misread the context, fair points

      • MegaUltraChicken@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        6
        ·
        3 months ago

        There’s no way the House Minority Leader isn’t going to get questions on this. Seems pretty reasonable to get a public statement out.

    • Samvega
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      2
      ·
      3 months ago

      Every person is presumed innocent until proven guilty in court.

      No. I don’t need to take you to court to prove that you can’t spell ‘escape’ in your username, for example. It’s just an obvious fact.

      You can’t reduce reality to legal issues and then the fact of having committed an unpleasant actions to legal outcomes. Israel could literally blow up courts which start proceedings in terms of international law against the country, for example, that wouldn’t alter the reality of the evidence against Israel.

      If you hit me with your car and I die, and there are witness, you did wrong regardless of what the court says.

      • eacapesamsara@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        3 months ago

        Incorrect, the reason we don’t live in the reality you describe is witness testimony is unreliable, and mob justice fails every time it’s tried.

        You are innocent until proven guilty. Period. Otherwise I can just say you killed my uncle and kill you in response to that made up event.

      • idiomaddict@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        3 months ago

        Innocent and guilty have formal legal definitions and informal, everyday ones. OJ Simpson was found innocent of murder, but I think it’s probably pretty likely that he did it with intent. Those can both be true.

        • Samvega
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          3 months ago

          Thank you for restating what I said, I appreciate it.

          • idiomaddict@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            3 months ago

            It’s surprising that you intended to agree with the original commenter whom you replied to, but sometimes it do be like that.

            • Samvega
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              3 months ago

              The commenter with the mis-spelled username? They’re not worth listening to.

    • take6056@feddit.nl
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      3 months ago

      Plenty of society’s after the 1600s, that had people and rulers who disagreed with that notion.