These are not the same. Here are some of the ways someone may be fine with reusing existing material while being against AI:
Someone may value thoughtful and coherent world building, while feeling like the AI generated amalgamation dilutes the cohesiveness of the material.
Someone can be for public sharing of ideas, while simultaneously against AI companies disregarding licenses attached to those ideas to build AI products.
Someone can value the personality and individual perspective that a content author or DM injects into material and feel that AI-generated material lacks this character.
Don’t reduce the use of AI down to the reuse of material. It also averages out material into some sort of lowest common denominator - sacrificing exactly the things that many niche fandoms value: personality and imagination.
To some people, yes. To others, no. You’re replying to specific people who seem to be against the idea, and I’m guessing for them it detracts significantly from the experience.
At the end of the day all of the concepts we have in fantasy are derivative in some regard, so the line will vary just like it will vary for people that want to do total homebrew vs following a book.
My group dabbled with AI when it was at its peak buzz, and if I’m honest, my head cannon sort of ignores those bits. They don’t carry the same authenticity that I came to expect from my group. It detracts from my experience because I play ttrpgs primarily to learn about my friends and how they’ve interpreted a shared world, not to hear algorithmically mid fanfic. I’m also not crazy about following a book. With a book, at least I know someone willfully released the work into the world and is getting appropriately compensated.
Reading, understanding, and synthesizing your own art from someone else’s work is not the same thing as typing artstation artstation artstation artstation artstation artstation artstation artstation artstation artstation artstation artstation artstation artstation into a statistical machine.
That’s the great part! We make sure only rich people can access the best models so the poor people are forced to handmake content training data for us!
Exactly. I can sit down and spend a few hours designing tokens or portraits, or I can use AI to do it in seconds. There is a purpose for us at home to use it. There is NO purpose for a company as big as Hasbro to use it to create their content.
Worse, you know it’s gonna be deployed into every sector. Better get ready to like your AI-designed Transformers toys, or your new My Little Pony lineup made possible by ChatGPT.
Came here from the front page. I’m for very comprehensive legislation surrounding how exactly ai can be used and what the consequences are for abusing it. I’ve also recently been getting into mtg, so an article about wotc/hasbro is relevant to me. Sorry if that ruins your point just now.
Now that I’ve answered your question to the best of my ability, would you be so gracious as to answer mine?
I feel like people are tearing you a new one for suggesting an actually useful and arguably ethical use of AI… If it isn’t for profit, it isn’t for the public, it’s fine. The only real concern is energy usage which don’t get me wrong is a problem but nerds getting past writers block isn’t going to be a meaningful impact compared to massive companies running millions of prompts with their public facing help bots. GMs yoink content from other creators constantly sometimes nearly word for word. Not everyone has the time to sink into building a shiny and perfect original world and tools like AI let them spend the time they have actually playing with friends. Don’t hate on people for liking or using AI for mundane personal stuff when the fight is with companies abusing these tools
I wouldn’t say “brilliant” or “amazing” but I do agree with you. Helping me get passed writer’s block or brainstorm ideas is the best use of AI in TTRPGs.
With that said though, fuck WotC and Hasbro. I’ve sworn off buying anymore of their shit since the OGL debacle. And they should actually pay writers and artists for their content, paid, free, or otherwise.
A DM/GM using using an LLM will lose what makes their story theirs. It becomes hollow and heartless.
A corporation using either of those things simply doesn’t want to pay artists and writers and will learn that AI is not the panacea to stockholder complaints they want it to be.
Maybe it’s just my preference. I’m not doubting DMs out forth the bulk of the effort or anything, and I’m thankful for all who have served. (I say that tongue in cheek but not sarcastically lol, it is a big commitment.) But I think the Lazy DM approach is better and I also really enjoy collaborating about lore.
LLMs are absolutely brilliant for D&D. If you get writers block explaining the story so far you can get some amazing suggestions.
Obviously generating art if you’re not that way inclined is also amazing.
Nah get the fuck out of my hobby with that stolen shit. If I learnt that my GM was using AI I’d be out of there so fast.
Yeah like people aren’t using existing materials in their campaigns.
These are not the same. Here are some of the ways someone may be fine with reusing existing material while being against AI:
Don’t reduce the use of AI down to the reuse of material. It also averages out material into some sort of lowest common denominator - sacrificing exactly the things that many niche fandoms value: personality and imagination.
And getting suggestions to help form your story takes any of those away?
I agree with the licensing implications but I doubt many people seek licenses from these guys before taking inspiration.
To some people, yes. To others, no. You’re replying to specific people who seem to be against the idea, and I’m guessing for them it detracts significantly from the experience.
At the end of the day all of the concepts we have in fantasy are derivative in some regard, so the line will vary just like it will vary for people that want to do total homebrew vs following a book.
My group dabbled with AI when it was at its peak buzz, and if I’m honest, my head cannon sort of ignores those bits. They don’t carry the same authenticity that I came to expect from my group. It detracts from my experience because I play ttrpgs primarily to learn about my friends and how they’ve interpreted a shared world, not to hear algorithmically mid fanfic. I’m also not crazy about following a book. With a book, at least I know someone willfully released the work into the world and is getting appropriately compensated.
Their tongue in your teeth
Why speak your own words when they can be stolen for you, with great convenience
I said use it for suggestions to break writers block.
How is using ai for suggestions any different then taking ideas from other media?
Avoid the pain (and potential growth) of writers block by stealing
Why develop your own voice and experience a real emotion when a corporation can serve one to you
You getting story suggestions definitely implies doing that.
Reading, understanding, and synthesizing your own art from someone else’s work is not the same thing as typing artstation artstation artstation artstation artstation artstation artstation artstation artstation artstation artstation artstation artstation artstation into a statistical machine.
As either inspiration or use it directly for a game that isn’t for profit.
Personal use implies not for profit. And I feel it’s expecting a lot for all DMs to create their own art.
Maybe if you’re a GM looking for quick inspiration, but not if you’re a for profit company whose job is to put out original content.
What’re the LLMs even supposed to feed on if companies start putting out generated content? It very quickly implodes if this becomes the norm.
That’s the great part! We make sure only rich people can access the best models so the poor people are forced to handmake
contenttraining data for us!I thought it was obvious I was talking about personal use.
That was in no way clear
Exactly. I can sit down and spend a few hours designing tokens or portraits, or I can use AI to do it in seconds. There is a purpose for us at home to use it. There is NO purpose for a company as big as Hasbro to use it to create their content.
Worse, you know it’s gonna be deployed into every sector. Better get ready to like your AI-designed Transformers toys, or your new My Little Pony lineup made possible by ChatGPT.
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I was clearly talking about personal use.
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Are you making money from dming games?
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I don’t even play dnd nor do use ai (intentionally) for anything.
But I’d love to hear what specifically the “profit” is in this scenario.
And since I’m curious, what’s your stance on digital piracy? What about shoplifting?
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Came here from the front page. I’m for very comprehensive legislation surrounding how exactly ai can be used and what the consequences are for abusing it. I’ve also recently been getting into mtg, so an article about wotc/hasbro is relevant to me. Sorry if that ruins your point just now.
Now that I’ve answered your question to the best of my ability, would you be so gracious as to answer mine?
That is in fact literally what it means and what we are talking about here.
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Time to learn about context
I feel like people are tearing you a new one for suggesting an actually useful and arguably ethical use of AI… If it isn’t for profit, it isn’t for the public, it’s fine. The only real concern is energy usage which don’t get me wrong is a problem but nerds getting past writers block isn’t going to be a meaningful impact compared to massive companies running millions of prompts with their public facing help bots. GMs yoink content from other creators constantly sometimes nearly word for word. Not everyone has the time to sink into building a shiny and perfect original world and tools like AI let them spend the time they have actually playing with friends. Don’t hate on people for liking or using AI for mundane personal stuff when the fight is with companies abusing these tools
I wouldn’t say “brilliant” or “amazing” but I do agree with you. Helping me get passed writer’s block or brainstorm ideas is the best use of AI in TTRPGs.
With that said though, fuck WotC and Hasbro. I’ve sworn off buying anymore of their shit since the OGL debacle. And they should actually pay writers and artists for their content, paid, free, or otherwise.
Yeah anyone who can afford to pay for the services of a creative absolutely should of course.
AI “art” is theft at every level.
A DM/GM using using an LLM will lose what makes their story theirs. It becomes hollow and heartless.
A corporation using either of those things simply doesn’t want to pay artists and writers and will learn that AI is not the panacea to stockholder complaints they want it to be.
You know GMs will sometimes also use good old-fashioned directly stolen art from the Internet, right?
Whether it’s AI generated or just ripped from Google images or from a fantasy novel, if it’s for personal use, what difference does that make?
I do agree though that using AI for anything that is for profit is effectively a crime, especially huge corporations like Hasbro.
Not sure where you think people learn art from hehe
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I’m not and stated that in my first comment.
D&D isn’t about writing. It’s about live, collaborative story telling with friends.
I think that statement massively downplays the amount of work a DM puts in behind the scenes to create the world.
I’d rather build a world together.
Absolutely. But you are still downplaying the amount of prep a DM has to do to make it playable and fleshed out.
Maybe it’s just my preference. I’m not doubting DMs out forth the bulk of the effort or anything, and I’m thankful for all who have served. (I say that tongue in cheek but not sarcastically lol, it is a big commitment.) But I think the Lazy DM approach is better and I also really enjoy collaborating about lore.
Edit: forgot a link, Lazy DM is a series of books https://slyflourish.com/lazydm/