• voracitude@lemmy.world
        63·
        3 months ago

        I regularly fix my bashrc file with Notepad. I run it in Wine because I cbf to RealVNC from my Windows CE media server.

        (n.b: None of this is real, I wrote it to upset people, I’m sorry)

        • riodoro1@lemmy.world
          57·
          3 months ago

          Well let me upset you.

          Ive been helping my coworker on a call and he was sharing his screen. I told him to edit a file (add a line) on a linux box we develop and he copied the file to his windows host with winscp, edited it in notepad and copied it back. I fantasize about killing him ever since.

          • Dave.@aussie.zone
            2·
            3 months ago

            They need to learn how to use their tools better. Winscp does all that transparently for you if you press F4 on a file on a remote system. Or maybe they did and you just didn’t see it…

            It’s quite a handy function when you’re diving through endless layers of directories on a remote box looking for one config file amongst many.

          • voracitude@lemmy.world
            1·
            3 months ago

            That’s crazy! At my job, I just help our users. I don’t have to build (and then maintain) infrastructure with them.

  • ramble81@lemm.ee
    54·
    3 months ago

    I’ve come to the conclusion, people who use vim just continue to do so out of a stubborn sense of pride for finally learning the key combinations.

    • JustAnotherKay@lemmy.world
      34·
      3 months ago

      In my case it’s not a sense of pride. I can’t use anything other than Vim because I keep accidentally putting random incantations into my word documents.

      “There once was a dduuuZQ:q!”

        • PlexSheep@infosec.pub
          4·
          3 months ago

          That extension is actually pretty cool. There is also tridactyl and a browser that was made with vim in mind, but a browser and a text editor are too different for many things to translate.

        • JustAnotherKay@lemmy.world
          2·
          3 months ago

          Ya know, I might throw that on to my browser but I doubt I’d actually use it much. I only really use my browser for research; notes, music, and most of my work is done in the terminal. Being able to swap tabs faster by not having to cycle could be useful, but other than that I find the mouse to be a pretty rapid way of navigating unfamiliar pages

          • lemmesay@discuss.tchncs.de
            2·
            3 months ago

            in my case, my hand hurts if I use mouse(or a mobile phone) for some time. using j/k for scrolling and clicking links via f help me a lot.

    • pixelscript@lemm.eeEnglish
      21·
      3 months ago

      I mean, yeah, kind of. In the same way pilots fly planes out of a stubborn sense of pride for knowing what all the flight deck controls do.

      • Treachery4524@lemmy.ml
        1·
        3 months ago

        Can you use a mouse in nano? I always just use the arrow keys, or page up/down and home/end

        I mostly use vim but I barely use the jkl; to navigate the document.

        • TheHarpyEagle@lemmy.world
          6·
          3 months ago

          Ah sorry, I meant using Vim in a GUI program. I wanted something with the flexibility of a mouse (quick navigation, context menu actions, etc.) without using a mouse. Using just the arrow keys, shift highlighting, etc. is just too slow when writing lots of text, and it doesn’t follow the natural position of typing.

    • techwizrd@programming.dev
      11·
      3 months ago

      I am faster, more comfortable, and more productive in Vim. I use the same keybindings in all my editors and IDEs. It’s okay for people to have different preferences.

    • hakunawazo@lemmy.world
      10·
      3 months ago

      It’s just convenient that it’s pre-installed on many servers.
      So I can use it now everywhere with my stubborn sense of pride for finally learning the key combinations.

    • PlexSheep@infosec.pub
      8·
      3 months ago

      What do you mean? The vim users know their key combinations pretty well, that’s kind of the point of vim.

    • Semi-Hemi-Lemmygod@lemmy.worldEnglish
      5·
      3 months ago

      It’s not pride, it’s just that I know how to use it really well and that makes it easy for me to use.

      But it’s really only for viewing files on another system over SSH. For local work I use Sublime Text

    • catshit_dogfart@lemmy.world
      3·
      3 months ago

      I just use vi

      Is that stupid? It’s all I ever bothered to learn, hasn’t failed me yet. Now I’m not some big time linux guru but I’m a sysadmin and regularly find myself elbow deep in a CLI for stuff.

    • 737
      1·
      3 months ago

      no, modal text editors are just nicer to use

    • TheV2@programming.dev
      1·
      3 months ago

      There is no sense of pride. Every text/code editor has key combinations that many users will learn eventually. Vim has easier key bindings.

    • root@precious.net
      1·
      3 months ago

      When you only need to hammer a nail every once in a while, any hammer will do. When you’re a roofer, you better have a roofing hammer.

      If you don’t spend your life in a terminal and just need to edit a file, vim isn’t for you. If you want to learn complex strings of arcane wizardry to not only make your life easier but amaze your underlings, use vim.

    • Racle@sopuli.xyz
      3·
      3 months ago

      I was Nano user and I liked it. After I learned to use Vim, I liked it more. Now when I use nano it’s frustrating to use and I can do things much faster and easier in vim 😅

    • tiredofsametab@fedia.io
      2·
      3 months ago

      Opposite here. I got started with Gentoo back in the day of building things from the ground up. Their tutorials all used nano and I just got used to using that. I think when I had casually tried to mess with linux previously, old Mandrake and Redhat in the '90s, I always used the GUI editors, but I also didn’t have a ton of time to mess with it and my hardware wasn’t well-supported.

  • bizdelnick@lemmy.ml
    37·
    3 months ago

    Vim (or emacs, or any other advanced text editor) is much easier to use than nano when you need to do something more complex than type couple of lines.

    • SomeLemmyUser@discuss.tchncs.de
      40·
      3 months ago

      Better? Maybe!

      More efficient? Surley!

      But easier?! Hell no! Easy means you can use it without a lot of training or studying. It is self explanatory. And there is no way on earth that vim is easier than nano. I don’t need to know anything to use nano I need to check docs for hours before I can even start using vim

          • bizdelnick@lemmy.ml
            1·
            3 months ago

            No, some piano plays are still harder than others, mo matter how long you practice. Editing text with vim is easier than with nano after some practice.

            • SomeLemmyUser@discuss.tchncs.de
              1·
              3 months ago

              If something is “easy to use” this includes the time you need learn said thing.

              Drinking rahmen from the bowl is easier then using chopsticks (even if you are more elegant with chopsticks)

              Driving automatic is easier then driving manual (even if you may be more efficient with manual if you practised shifting a lot)

              Walking is easier then flicflacs (even if you may be faster with flicflacs if you practised a lot)

              Using Ubuntu is easier than using arch (even if arch gives you more control and opportunities if you understand it)

              • bizdelnick@lemmy.ml
                1·
                3 months ago

                “Easy to use” means that you do less and get more. Learning doesn’t count if you learn something once and then use the skills you obtained many times.

            • Fox@pawb.social
              8·
              3 months ago

              Right, it’s remembering them and using them efficiently that’s hard. It’s amusing watching coworkers try to flex in vim and then struggle at the most basic tasks.

      • socsa@piefed.social
        6·
        3 months ago

        This makes it seem like jerking off to MILF porn is hard because there is a learning curve

    • leisesprecher@feddit.org
      9·
      3 months ago

      And how often does that happen in the real world?

      VIM may have been a very useful tool 20 or 30 years ago, but today it’s nothing else but a tool for one’s sense of superiority. It’s the vinyl of editors.

      If you have to type that much code in a terminal, your infrastructure is outdated. Simple as that.

      • Chewt@beehaw.org
        7·
        3 months ago

        You seem to believe that people only use the terminal if they HAVE to. I doubt anybody these days HAS to type any amount of code in the terminal, but choose to anyway. Like probably anyone else I have access to modern tools and infrastructure, but I choose to do work in the terminal because I’m more productive there. I use (neo)vim because I like it more than any other text editor I’ve used, and have no problem writing code and debugging in the terminal.

        • leisesprecher@feddit.org
          2·
          3 months ago

          You’re using the terminal, because you’re used to it. It is not the better tool, it’s simply what you happen to know already.

          People who argue with productivity because of some key bindings live in the world of the 80s. You don’t just sit there and type code 12h a day, that’s not how modern software development works.

          And all those blockheads down voting me are caught up in their weird superiority complex. They are the powerful superhackers, and don’t understand that we are just highly qualified plumbers.

          • Chewt@beehaw.org
            3·
            3 months ago

            I’m actually fairly young and wasn’t around in the 80s. I graduated college with a CS degree in the past 5 years, where I was exposed to many different tools and software. What did I come out of that experience with? I like the terminal more than any IDE I had to use in any class.

            Now in the real world, we don’t always get to use our favorite tools for every task, obviously. I do need to use other, more enterprise, software from time to time for work. But whenever possible I go to the terminal because I’m faster there, and I can quickly automate things.

            I’m not saying the terminal is the best tool for every job, I’m just saying it is the best for ME. Notice I’m also not putting down other tools here. It seems to me like you might be the one with a superiority complex.

            • leisesprecher@feddit.org
              1·
              3 months ago

              No, I’d argue you simply didn’t want to invest in the other tools.

              Think about it, you probably spent hours on customizing and automating vim, and then say you’re faster in that. Well, that’s called a habit.

              IDE are objectively more powerful and since you can actually see options and navigate quickly, you don’t need to memorize every obscure feature.

              All the terminal editor enthusiasts are actively holding us back, because they insist everything outside vim is garbage for enterprise and kiddies.

              If your tool of choice is actively hostile to new users for no reason other than “that’s how it’s always been, and thus it’s better”, well then you’re digging a moat to automate your gatekeeping.

              • Chewt@beehaw.org
                4·
                3 months ago

                vim + terminal is actually objectively more powerful than any IDE, and most IDEs include a way to pull up a terminal as a crutch for things they can’t do. In any case It seems you can’t be reasoned with. Your argument is just a strawman about what you say other people are saying.

      • TheHarpyEagle@lemmy.world
        1·
        3 months ago

        I actually use VIM bindings in PyCharm, slightly cursed but actually works really well and meshes fairly nicely with the other IDE shortcuts. Being able to use it in any terminal is a nice bonus.

  • pedz@lemmy.ca
    37·
    3 months ago

    Sometimes you don’t even have the luxury of nano. Any moderately advanced Linux user should probably learn the basics of vi. Just knowing how to insert text and save it can fix a system that’s stuck in recovery. Even if it’s just to add a comment in front of a line in a config file.

      • SakiEnglish
        1·
        3 months ago

        you can change that really easily

      • pedz@lemmy.ca
        18·
        3 months ago

        Not in rescue mode. If you can’t mount your root partition because something was fudged in /etc/fstab, for example, you may be stuck in recovery and depending on your distribution, it may not have nano in that minimalist mode.

        For me it also happens when I install a VM of Debian using the small image, on my dedicated server in a data center. The company hosting the server requires a special network configuration and AFAIK, there’s only vi. So i need to use the console to access the VM and from there, edit /etc/network/something with vi to setup the network. Once done I can reboot and install the rest of the software over the network, including nano.

        I’ve been using Linux for more than two decades. Before nano I was using pico, but it also required to have pine/alpine installed. So knowing the basics of vi has often been helpful over the years for me.

        Maybe it’s because I like tinkering with VMs and SBCs, and most people will not encounter situations where they don’t have nano, but it can happen. And you’ll be glad to know at least “i” and “:wq!”.

      • Transtronaut
        9·
        3 months ago

        In a professional context, you might end up on servers that don’t have nano installed, but do have vi. Or if you’re helping out a friend on their laptop, they might not have the same software as you. Or if you often end up tinkering with random devices and/or setting up new systems it might be tedious to install the same applications every time.

        It’s basically an argument for learning the very basics of the most common editors so you have flexibility no matter where you end up. Even when you have the ability to download and install your preferred software, it’s still an extra step that might not be desirable for a variety of reasons. But if it’s just your own personal device, I see no problem with just installing whatever you prefer and running with it.

        EDIT: Personally, I find that I don’t end up using those other editors often enough to remember the abstruse commands of tools like vim, so I’m not worried about it. When it does happen, 99% of the time I can just whip out a smartphone and look up the directions for the n-dozenth time.

    • Mactan@lemmy.ml
      6·
      3 months ago

      Sometimes you don’t even have the luxury of vi. Any moderately advanced Linux user should probably learn the basics of sed. Just knowing how to insert text and save it can fix a system that’s stuck in recovery. Even if it’s just to add a comment in front of a line in a config file.

  • riodoro1@lemmy.world
    32·
    3 months ago

    Average vim user: vim is easy.

    Also average vim user: literally hours of reading tutorial pages on how to use vim.

    • barsquid@lemmy.world
      9·
      3 months ago

      It is easy, though? I cannot even use it correctly. I just know some of the commands and that if you hold down shift it goes backwards.

      • Voytrekk@lemmy.world
        14·
        3 months ago

        I’m a vim user and I would say it’s not. It’s very powerful, but only once you become familiar with the commands.

        Nano is a better default for the average user because it works in a way most users would expect for a text editor to work.

      • ysjet@lemmy.worldEnglish
        4·
        3 months ago

        Honestly, these days it’s pretty simple. The thing you need to remember is that you do not need to know EVERYTHING all at once. Learn a little bit, use it, keep what you use, discard what you don’t, get it in muscle memory, and learn a bit more. Very quickly you’ll be zooming through vim.

        You can learn the basics, and go from there- the basics of vim (which imo everyone should know- vi is often the fallback editor), and then you can just casually learn stuff as you go.

        Here’s the basics for modern default/standard vim: Arrow keys move you around like you expect in all ‘modes’ (there’s some arguments about if you should be using arrow keys in the vim community- for now, consider them a crutch that lets you learn other things). There’s two ‘modes’- command mode, and edit mode.

        Edit mode acts like a standard, traditional text editor, though a lot of your keybinds (e.g. ctrl-c/ctrl-v) don’t work.

        Press escape to go back into command mode (in command mode, esc does nothing- esc is always safe to use. If you get lost/trapped/are confused, just keep hitting escape and you’ll drop into command mode). You start vim in command mode. Press i to go into edit mode at your current cursor position.

        To exit vim entirely, go to command mode (esc), and type :wq<enter>.

        ‘:’ is ‘issue command string’,

        ‘w’ is ‘write’, aka save,

        ‘q’ is quit.

        In other words, ‘:wq’ is ‘save and quit’

        ‘:q’ is quit without saving, ‘:w’ is save and don’t quit. Logical.

        Depending on your terminal, you can probably select text with your mouse and have it be copied and then pasted with shift-ins in edit mode, which is a terminal thing and not a vim thing, because vim ties into it natively.

        That gets you started with basically all the same features as nano, except they work in a minimal environment and you can build them up to start taking advantage of command mode, which is where the power and speed of vim start coming into play.

        For example ‘i’ puts you in edit mode on the spot- capital i puts you in command mode at the beginning of the line. a is edit mode after your spot- capital A is edit mode at the end of the current line.

        Do you need these to use vim? Nope. Once you learn them, start using them, and have them as muscle memory, is it vastly faster to use? Yes. And there’s hundreds of keybinds like that, all of which are fairly logical once you know the logic behind them- ‘insert’ and ‘after’ for i/a, for example.

        Fair warning, vim is old enough that the logic may seem arcane sometimes- e.g. instead of ‘copy and paste’ vim has ‘yank and put,’ because copy/paste didn’t exist yet, so the keybinds for copy/paste are y and p.

        • wise_pancake@lemmy.ca
          3·
          3 months ago

          The second most important thing about vim to learn is:

          If nothing is behaving then you probably have caps lock on.

      • s_s@lemm.eeEnglish
        2·
        3 months ago

        Vim makes it easy to edit text in complicated ways, once you’ve learned it.

        Vim is not easy to learn nor intuitive.

        It is simple and compounding.

        You might not ever edit enough text to ever need to learn a new skillset to edit text. If that’s the case, use nano.

        But if you do find yourself editing a lot of text, consider trying vimtutor.

        It takes 20 minutes and you’ll be proficient enough to match nano’s efficiency ceiling.

    • 737
      6·
      3 months ago

      It’s extremely easy to get started

  • jaybone@lemmy.world
    30·
    3 months ago

    You noobs. I just use combinations of cat piped to sed to edit my files, which are mainly lisp code.

  • thingsiplay@beehaw.org
    28·
    3 months ago

    The Terminator is not here to kill you, its here to protect you from Emacs (which can change its form to anything).

    • tetris11@lemmy.ml
      12·
      3 months ago

      Cmon dude, what’s most likely to be Skynet?

      • Vim: Clearly evil, lightning fast. Relies on vimscript for any interactivity and can barely be used outside of the editor.

      • Emacs: the hippie brain child of some of the brightest minds at the MIT AI lab, funded by military contracts. Slow, but uses a near-universal language that can easily escape the bounds of the editor, (and often does (, and holy shit where did those parentheses come from. (Oh no, it’s becoming self-aware - fly you fools…!

      • thingsiplay@beehaw.org
        5·
        3 months ago

        Vim: Clearly evil, lightning fast. Relies on vimscript for any interactivity and can barely be used outside of the editor.

        I don’t know why you want use Vimscript for anything outside of the editor. But if that your issue, then there is Neovim. It uses Lua instead Vimscript, but what is the benefit of using Lua outside of Vim? That changes nothing.

        • cygnus@lemmy.ca
          4·
          3 months ago

          It uses Lua instead Vimscript, but what is the benefit of using Lua outside of Vim?

          The only other (in fact, the first) place I’ve run into Lua is WoW plugins.

        • tetris11@lemmy.ml
          4·
          3 months ago

          Lua outside of Vim has huge applications in embedded products. Dude I would kill for Lua. Do you know what we have? Common Lisp. Yeah, it’s great and fancy and all, but try adding that to your CV and applying for an embedded system job.

          • thingsiplay@beehaw.org
            1·
            3 months ago

            My point is, then use Lua outside of Vim. What does this have anything to do with the language used in Vim? You can use Vimscript in Vim, and still use Lua outside of Vim. So what’s the problem? It’s not like Lua gets available to you outside of Vim, just because you switch to Neovim. What do I miss here?

            • tetris11@lemmy.ml
              4·
              3 months ago

              (it was mostly a joke, but) the skills you acquire tinkering your Vim to your needs using vimscropt can’t be used elsewhere, whereas Emacs has the (small) advantage that at least most of one’s elisp skills can be translated to common lisp quite easily (with the joke being that common lisp really isn’t that useful, hence my Lua jealousy rant).

  • daniskarma@lemmy.dbzer0.com
    21·
    3 months ago

    I’ll say that I find easier to exit vim that to exit nano.

    I don’t know what ^ means. I just start pressing special keys until it doesn’t the thing

  • unknowing8343@discuss.tchncs.de
    18·
    3 months ago

    In every post of this kind I am amazed at so many people using nano instead of micro which is SO MUCH BETTER while being the same thing at the same time.

  • Dasnap@lemmy.world
    16·
    3 months ago

    I started on Unix systems using Vim, so I find Nano to be the confusing editor. A Vim install is one of the first things I do on a new server.

  • theshatterstone54@feddit.uk
    15·
    3 months ago

    That’s like the picture of a normal dude with Nano, a large Vim dude, a larger buff Emacs dude and an ever larger massive Ed dude.