Here, I’ll just copy paste the bit that I wrote on “why” that’s not a good idea before the election is over and done with.
They are absolutely NOT the good guys. Israel is having a smaller scale preview of what we’d see if we had the same scenario happen under a Trump presidency. We should try to curb their worst instincts, but you have to win the bloody election first to do it, and somehow account for the fact that the majority of Americans do not give a shit about Palestine.
The last poll I saw on the issue, is that ranking issues from most important to least, Palestine ranked around #9. Behind everything from Immigration, Economy, Women’s rights etc. And opposing them is one of the most powerful special interest groups that exist in the US today, in a country that loves money in politics so much that we legalized bribery.
In short, the majority of Americans do not give a fuck about Palestine. And AIPAC is one of the most well funded, well connected special interest groups in the US. If Harris says that now? She absolutely loses the election.
It’s not an accident that some of the most vocal Pro-Palestinian voices in congress were primaried.
In that political climate, the best you can do is to do harm mitigation and make sure Republicans aren’t in the driver’s seat come 2025.
Yes, I’m being pragmatic. And I’d fucking hope you would be too, when millions of lives are at stake. I donated to Palestine for 20 years. Even back when I was living on a shoestring budget while I was in college. Do the feel good shit AFTER 11/20. I’ll be right there with you.
And for the love of god, vote.
Nobody gives a shit about nonvoters in this country. If you wanted to actually affect policy, a half a dozen congressmen that are willing to throw a wrench in things to get their way goes a LOT further than useless yammering about how you’re not going to vote because ‘both sides are bad’.
We needed a few more, but we just lost two that we already had, because folks decided they’d rather talk shit than bother showing up for the primaries.
A couple of Blue Dogs managed to derail single payer healthcare. We could absolutely do the same for the Palestinian issue, if you could be bothered to get off your ass and vote. Sure, they’ll lose their seats in the next election, just like the blue dogs did, but the job will be done. In the meantime, how about we don’t throw out the baby with the bath water, because if Trump wins, there won’t be anything or anyone left to save.
Did you not read my comment? Everything I said was about the fact that most pro-Palestinians are still voting for Harris, but just want her to be a good person.
You want her to commit political suicide before winning an election.
I’m with you. I agree with you that Israel needs to chill the fuck out. But instead of just going with my feelings, I also looked at the polls.
Most Americans don’t care, and AIPAC is very, VERY well funded. And US politics runs on money. And most of the folks that would decide the election? The ‘swing’ voters that can’t make up their mind on whether or not they’re voting for Harris or Trump even after he tried to overthrow the government in 2020? A lot of them think Palestinians are just terrorists. They’re looking at the news the right wing is funding of Palestinian/Muslim protests in Europe and thinking, “Well fuck, I don’t want those nutjobs over here?”
Giving that endorsement right now would be a dream come true for Republicans. They’d finally have the attack angle they need.
Harris says that now? She loses. Trump is president, and Palestine is even more fucked than they are now.
And everyone else gets fucked with them too. You want the Democrats to change course? You have to change that calculus first. Until you can prove that you vote in greater numbers, and more consistently than the brain dead ‘swing’ voters in middle America, nothing will change. Promising you’re not going to vote is the absolute worst thing you could do in that situation.
I’m being realistic about the state of the country I live in. You’re not.
This isn’t the time for pie-in-the-sky idealistic bullshit. If Trump wins, we’re all fucked. We’re not going to get a do-over if we lose this one.
If you’re a real person, then you have serious reading comprehension issues you are once again saying that I said something I didn’t, I said nothing about not voting, I infact said the opposite. The rest of your assertions I don’t have time to respond to currently, and I’m not going to waste that time if you’re an AI as I expect.
Translation: I can’t actually make a proper argument as to how my position does anything to further my goals, so I’m going to pretend I don’t have time… while wasting time on the comments section of a meme making fun of people exactly like me.
Once again, failing to respond to my point, by saying something unrelated. I happen to be a student, that means I can’t type out a whole response to several points while in a class that I need to focus on. You seem to forget that people have lives outside of the internet.
You may have said what you want to happen, but that had almost nothing to do with my post, which was stating that almost all pro-Palistinians are still voting for Harris, you have continued to not respond to that, instead resulting to Ad Hominem. Maybe if you would just respond to the actual comment, instead of a straw man you’ve created, this argument could be productive.
You don’t know how to spell Palestinians either. Why am I not surprised.
“Resorting” to Ad Hominem attacks, right?
Are you a Russian troll or something? I refuse to believe anyone out of grade school can be so bad at English.
You’re totally not a dum-dum though. I want you to know that.
It is true that the majority of Americans are more favorable of Israel than Palestine, however, according to a recent poll of 1,000 Americans, by YouGov, petitioned by the CEPR, 52% of Americans support an arms embargo on Israel. In another poll by YouGov of 3 swing states, it is shown that in Pennsylvania 34% of respondents said they would be more likely to vote for Harris, compared to 7% who said they’d be less likely to if she vowed to stop supplying weapons to Israel. Similarly, in Arizona it was 35% to 5%, and in Georgia, it was 39% to 5%.
Polls can be worded to show bias. The primaries showed exactly what the current reality of the situation is. When AIPAC weighs in, the candidate they’re trying to burn loses. They ‘burned’ two members of the squad and left two. The two they chose not to campaign against won their primaries, they two they did? Lost.
It’s almost like they wanted to send a message. “We can fuck you up, don’t get too far out of line”.
At least as it stands now, the number of people who are willing to actually show up to vote for congressmen/women that vocally support Palestine isn’t enough to match the funding advantage their opponents will have.
All the more reason that telling folks to not vote unless they get what they want is counterproductive. No amount of talking and protesting or complaining online matters. The only thing that counts is actually showing up and voting.
I have never told anyone not to vote, if you recall, my point for this entire comment thread has been that most pro-Palestinians are still going to vote for Harris, it is true that polls can be biases, but seeing as you haven’t provided any sources, I’m going to continue to believe in the ones I provided. I’m pretty sure primaries haven’t happened yet, and unless your talking about ones from last election, I don’t see what you’re talking about. Please give me a source to support your views, and please respond to my point, and not a straw man.
If you’re not even paying attention to the primary cycle, when that’s the best time to get pro-Palestinian representation into our government, you are engaging in something I’d like to call, performative-activism.
Dude, fuck off, if all your going to do is insult me I’m not going to continue talking to you. I happen to be using a phone keyboard, making it extremely easy to misspell something.
Over 55% support at least conditional aid to Israel. The notion that most Americans don’t care about the genocide in Gaza is entirely false. Just because it’s not a top issue when comparing to others like immigration or abortion does not mean voters don’t care. The anti-genocide protestors are Democratic Voters, they are likely voters. These are the kind of voters that go door knocking, the kind of voters you want if you want to win a campaign.
Pivoting left on Gaza is critical if Harris wants to secure a Victory. Hundreds of thousands of likely voters all over swing states would be gained of Harris makes Israel a partisan issue. That pivot would gain her massive support and momentum, especially in critical swing states. It’s correct on a moral standpoint, it’s correct on a political standpoint, it’s also correct on the standpoint of international law.
An April 2024 poll of likely voters across the U.S. found that 30% strongly supported withholding military funds to Israel until the attacks on Gaza stop; another 25% somewhat supported that conditional aid policy.
Below we asked all respondents what minimum combination of policies would secure (for non-Biden voters) or solidify (for Biden voters) a vote for Biden for President. A third or more voters in every state except Minnesota said a lasting ceasefire was among the minimum policies that would be needed to secure solidify their votes
Although voters are split on whether they approve or disapprove of Biden’s handling of the war, the vast majority (≥ ~75%) across all states still support an immediate and permanent ceasefire. Only a small minority of voters, from 11.2% to 16.1% in Minnesota and Pennsylvania, respectively, strongly approve of the President’s approach on Gaza. Of those, the vast majority in each state (≥64%) strongly support an immediate and permanent ceasefire. That is to say, a change in approach would not lose those votes, but staying on the current path risks doing so.
Here, I’ll just copy paste the bit that I wrote on “why” that’s not a good idea before the election is over and done with.
They are absolutely NOT the good guys. Israel is having a smaller scale preview of what we’d see if we had the same scenario happen under a Trump presidency. We should try to curb their worst instincts, but you have to win the bloody election first to do it, and somehow account for the fact that the majority of Americans do not give a shit about Palestine.
The last poll I saw on the issue, is that ranking issues from most important to least, Palestine ranked around #9. Behind everything from Immigration, Economy, Women’s rights etc. And opposing them is one of the most powerful special interest groups that exist in the US today, in a country that loves money in politics so much that we legalized bribery.
In short, the majority of Americans do not give a fuck about Palestine. And AIPAC is one of the most well funded, well connected special interest groups in the US. If Harris says that now? She absolutely loses the election.
It’s not an accident that some of the most vocal Pro-Palestinian voices in congress were primaried.
In that political climate, the best you can do is to do harm mitigation and make sure Republicans aren’t in the driver’s seat come 2025.
Yes, I’m being pragmatic. And I’d fucking hope you would be too, when millions of lives are at stake. I donated to Palestine for 20 years. Even back when I was living on a shoestring budget while I was in college. Do the feel good shit AFTER 11/20. I’ll be right there with you.
And for the love of god, vote.
Nobody gives a shit about nonvoters in this country. If you wanted to actually affect policy, a half a dozen congressmen that are willing to throw a wrench in things to get their way goes a LOT further than useless yammering about how you’re not going to vote because ‘both sides are bad’. We needed a few more, but we just lost two that we already had, because folks decided they’d rather talk shit than bother showing up for the primaries.
A couple of Blue Dogs managed to derail single payer healthcare. We could absolutely do the same for the Palestinian issue, if you could be bothered to get off your ass and vote. Sure, they’ll lose their seats in the next election, just like the blue dogs did, but the job will be done. In the meantime, how about we don’t throw out the baby with the bath water, because if Trump wins, there won’t be anything or anyone left to save.
Did you not read my comment? Everything I said was about the fact that most pro-Palestinians are still voting for Harris, but just want her to be a good person.
You want her to commit political suicide before winning an election.
I’m with you. I agree with you that Israel needs to chill the fuck out. But instead of just going with my feelings, I also looked at the polls. Most Americans don’t care, and AIPAC is very, VERY well funded. And US politics runs on money. And most of the folks that would decide the election? The ‘swing’ voters that can’t make up their mind on whether or not they’re voting for Harris or Trump even after he tried to overthrow the government in 2020? A lot of them think Palestinians are just terrorists. They’re looking at the news the right wing is funding of Palestinian/Muslim protests in Europe and thinking, “Well fuck, I don’t want those nutjobs over here?”
Giving that endorsement right now would be a dream come true for Republicans. They’d finally have the attack angle they need.
Harris says that now? She loses. Trump is president, and Palestine is even more fucked than they are now. And everyone else gets fucked with them too. You want the Democrats to change course? You have to change that calculus first. Until you can prove that you vote in greater numbers, and more consistently than the brain dead ‘swing’ voters in middle America, nothing will change. Promising you’re not going to vote is the absolute worst thing you could do in that situation.
I’m being realistic about the state of the country I live in. You’re not. This isn’t the time for pie-in-the-sky idealistic bullshit. If Trump wins, we’re all fucked. We’re not going to get a do-over if we lose this one.
If you’re a real person, then you have serious reading comprehension issues you are once again saying that I said something I didn’t, I said nothing about not voting, I infact said the opposite. The rest of your assertions I don’t have time to respond to currently, and I’m not going to waste that time if you’re an AI as I expect.
Translation: I can’t actually make a proper argument as to how my position does anything to further my goals, so I’m going to pretend I don’t have time… while wasting time on the comments section of a meme making fun of people exactly like me.
Boop boop. Bloviating idiot detected. Commencing snark protocol.
Once again, failing to respond to my point, by saying something unrelated. I happen to be a student, that means I can’t type out a whole response to several points while in a class that I need to focus on. You seem to forget that people have lives outside of the internet.
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You may have said what you want to happen, but that had almost nothing to do with my post, which was stating that almost all pro-Palistinians are still voting for Harris, you have continued to not respond to that, instead resulting to Ad Hominem. Maybe if you would just respond to the actual comment, instead of a straw man you’ve created, this argument could be productive.
You don’t know how to spell Palestinians either. Why am I not surprised. “Resorting” to Ad Hominem attacks, right?
Are you a Russian troll or something? I refuse to believe anyone out of grade school can be so bad at English. You’re totally not a dum-dum though. I want you to know that.
Definitely not a dum-dum.
It is true that the majority of Americans are more favorable of Israel than Palestine, however, according to a recent poll of 1,000 Americans, by YouGov, petitioned by the CEPR, 52% of Americans support an arms embargo on Israel. In another poll by YouGov of 3 swing states, it is shown that in Pennsylvania 34% of respondents said they would be more likely to vote for Harris, compared to 7% who said they’d be less likely to if she vowed to stop supplying weapons to Israel. Similarly, in Arizona it was 35% to 5%, and in Georgia, it was 39% to 5%.
Sources: https://www.cepr.net/press-release/poll-majority-of-americans-say-biden-should-halt-weapons-shipments-to-israel/ https://zeteo.com/p/poll-harris-democrats-gaza-ceasefire-arms-embargo
Polls can be worded to show bias. The primaries showed exactly what the current reality of the situation is. When AIPAC weighs in, the candidate they’re trying to burn loses. They ‘burned’ two members of the squad and left two. The two they chose not to campaign against won their primaries, they two they did? Lost.
It’s almost like they wanted to send a message. “We can fuck you up, don’t get too far out of line”.
At least as it stands now, the number of people who are willing to actually show up to vote for congressmen/women that vocally support Palestine isn’t enough to match the funding advantage their opponents will have.
All the more reason that telling folks to not vote unless they get what they want is counterproductive. No amount of talking and protesting or complaining online matters. The only thing that counts is actually showing up and voting.
I have never told anyone not to vote, if you recall, my point for this entire comment thread has been that most pro-Palestinians are still going to vote for Harris, it is true that polls can be biases, but seeing as you haven’t provided any sources, I’m going to continue to believe in the ones I provided. I’m pretty sure primaries haven’t happened yet, and unless your talking about ones from last election, I don’t see what you’re talking about. Please give me a source to support your views, and please respond to my point, and not a straw man.
You can’t figure out who in the squad lost their primaries? Does google not work at your house?
https://www.newsweek.com/democrats-squad-suddenly-falling-apart-what-next-1938990
If you’re not even paying attention to the primary cycle, when that’s the best time to get pro-Palestinian representation into our government, you are engaging in something I’d like to call, performative-activism.
Seriously, do better.
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Dude, fuck off, if all your going to do is insult me I’m not going to continue talking to you. I happen to be using a phone keyboard, making it extremely easy to misspell something.
There isn’t a keyboard in the world that mangles “previous” to “previse”.
But okay, lets pretend you’re not a dum-dums. I don’t want to be hurting your feelings or anything. You don’t seem to handle that very well.
Over 55% support at least conditional aid to Israel. The notion that most Americans don’t care about the genocide in Gaza is entirely false. Just because it’s not a top issue when comparing to others like immigration or abortion does not mean voters don’t care. The anti-genocide protestors are Democratic Voters, they are likely voters. These are the kind of voters that go door knocking, the kind of voters you want if you want to win a campaign.
Pivoting left on Gaza is critical if Harris wants to secure a Victory. Hundreds of thousands of likely voters all over swing states would be gained of Harris makes Israel a partisan issue. That pivot would gain her massive support and momentum, especially in critical swing states. It’s correct on a moral standpoint, it’s correct on a political standpoint, it’s also correct on the standpoint of international law.