No joke here. I just think stuff like this is interesting.
Oh yes, Americans really are the most sarcastic people on the planet and their humor is oh so dark.
Sincerely,
—A Brit.
We are.
It’s what happens when you take dry British humor, concentrate it like a cup of tea run in the microwave until almost all of the water evaporates out and add daily mortal risk from our fellow countrymen.
-A ‘Murica
Dutch humor and jokes are pretty dark, as are half of the swear words.
probably from living next to the Germans. But hey, most of the jokes these days are still about BelgiansHalf my family is dutch and many of my friends are full blooded, right off the boat dutch. Dutch humor can be so blunt and expertly delivered that it can literally cut you to the core if you arent accustomed. The only way i can describe it is if you have ever eaten dutch liquorice. Try a piece of dubbel zoute drop and you will understand everything you need to know about the dutch.
But lets give some credit to the hispanics though. Mexican humor, especially with their nicknames, can be exceptionally ruthless as well. Their directness and humor has absolutely got to be on par with the best of the swamp germans.
Kinda funny when you consider the good relations that the Dutch and Japanese had for a long time. Maybe Dutch humour changed?
One of my Dutch friends explained to me that many of Dutch’s darker swear words and related expressions tend to be derived from ruinous diseases. One of them roughly translating to something akin to, “I hope you catch the plague”. Can you corroborate that?
It was part of a greater discussion about the roots of cultural differences. The Netherlands have a much more persistent memory of the era of plague and thus their taboos derive from it. Here in the US, less so.
It’s true. Cancer (kanker) is a very common swear word, as is kankerlijer (someone who suffers from cancer) as insult
We curse with pus (etter), tbc (tering), cholera (kolere), plague (pest) and more recently cancer (kanker). Although that often hits a bit too close home for some people. There’s more that I’m forgetting right now. I have heard people describe something bad as being AIDS. So new ones are actually being added.
One of the theories is that it came from Yiddish where diseases are also used as curses. Another popular theory is that because the Dutch population isn’t very religious we switched to diseases because that’s whst we feared in stead of God. The truth lays probably somewhere in the middle.
And tuberculosis is also a popular one over there.
Oi turn on the telly, the man is doin’ a silly walk!
I m french and I trough that we were the most sarcastic. I think it really depend of the language that you understand the most.
Clearly not if you failed to notice the sarcasm from my fellow brit
Did they? The Brit’s comment was about whether Americans or Brits are most sarcastic. The French guy alleges that it’s neither.
We learned from the best.
You guys just got too good at it.
I’m neither British nor American, and whole-heartedly agree.
Stephen Fry on the difference between American and British comedy
Also made me think of a few of Mitchell & Webb’s skits. Like Kill all the poor
Well Matthew Perry did invent sarcasm, so it tracks.
I can’t tell if he’s being sarcastic or not.
Americans are also known for being really direct (YMMV; southerners are a lot more indirect, where West Coasters would much rather that you just tell them to get fucked than pretend that you like them). OTOH, from my experience hosting students from East Asia, they tend to be at the opposite end of directness. It took us half the school year to get the kid from Hong Kong to open up, start talking and joking without being prompted and be comfortable telling us mildly uncomfortable things (like if he was unhappy about something). We’ve had two Japanese students as well, and it’s always been a constant struggle to get them to tell us if there’s a problem; they prefer to reach out to a program supervisor instead of telling us directly, and one of them was so bad about indirectness that it felt like he was constantly lying to us. It turns out that differences in directness cause a lot more issues than I would have guessed.
Utah is extraordinarily passive aggressive. Home in New York, I was considered tactful with my words. Here in Utah, I’m considered rude.
People raised here, especially Mormons, will lie to your face with no remorse in order to avoid saying any “harsh” words or causing “contention.”
I’ve pretty stopped being tactful and have embraced vulgar honesty. Not to hurt others - I really do care about my roommates and most of my coworkers on my shift - but to make my thoughts so motherfuckingly clear that even a god-damned inbred Mormon pioneer worshipping dumbass can understand.
I’ve heard this called a “West Coast Attitude”, though AFAICT, it seems like the Northeast also has a reputation for not mincing words. Anyway, yeah, I’m a big fan of the West Coast Attitude; you always feel pretty good that you know where you stand with someone. There’s people out here in Cali that fall in love with the south after a little visit and gush about how nice everyone is. I make it a point to tell them that, as someone who lived a good decade or so in the south, I know that 4 times out of five, that niceness is a facade papering over a whole lot of shit they talked about you the second the door hit your ass. In all fairness, there really are some super great people there that genuinely are as nice as they seem, but I found it hard to tell them apart without getting to know them first.
Northeast is direct, but just won’t say anything until less it’s a big problem. Except NY/NJ assholes.
Midwesterners want to talk all the time to everyone, but mostly niceties.
Southerners are talkative and sound nice too, but can be super backhanded about it.
Westerners are more talkative than New Englanders, and blunt like them at the same time.
— Midwesterner who moved to New England 40 years ago, and has family from NC and CA.
I have a similar experience being from the North and moving to Texas some time ago. At work in the North, I was well spoken, direct, honest, friendly, and kind. In Texas, I spoke my mind too much and wasn’t nice, but was considered a dependable hard worker. The only people that didn’t file HR complaints? Other Northerners.
Culture shock in your own country is a hell of a thing.
I call it being “subtle as a sledgehammer.” Makes it a little harder to make long lasting friends, but the ones I have greatly appreciate it.
Americans are also known for being really direct
Maybe in America. They are also known for saying “this is the best XYZ I’ve ever had in my entire life!!!” for every XYZ they ever have in their entire lives.
We are the most hyperbolic people ever of all time, I’m absolutely positive
From an American, this means the thing meets expectations, or possibly even exceeds them.
“Not too bad” means I almost died.
“Pretty good” means it wasn’t the worst possible result, but not great.
E: You’ll know it’s actually the best ever if we stop talking.
Again, Your Mileage May Vary. People in the south can be frustratingly indirect because they believe it’s polite. Broad strokes, however, Americans do tend to be more on the direct side of things; I reckon we’re a little behind Germany (as the exemplar of extreme directness), but much closer to them in directness than we are to, say, England.
Dutch people are the undisputed champions of telling you shit to your face.
There are two things that I cannot stand, one is people who are intolerant of other cultures, and the other is the Dutch.
Probably more than a little behind Germany. I remember coming across an article about communication pitfalls in the business world that stem from Americans being indirect and using a lot of stock phrases for courtesy.
I remember well-known examples like “how are you” not expressing an interest in how the other person is doing. Or more obscure stuff like “we should meet for coffee soon” expressing not an intention to meet in the near future but a generally positive disposition towards the other person. Or them giving a positive response when someone suggests something they don’t want and relying on nonverbal cues to convey their disapproval.
Perhaps it’s proximity but as a German I find British indirectness (which often revolves around obvious understatement or sarcasm) to be easier to parse than American indirectness (which revolves around stock phrases). Americans can be a bit Darmok if you’re not familiar with a phrase. Thankfully online communication doesn’t feature them as much.
Those are all good points. I want to emphasize that this is relative to East Asia. The West as a whole tends to be more direct in its communication style, and you’re going to find differences inside of that. Speaking from our experience, we’ve had the fewest communication problems (in terms of directness being a problem) with German and Dutch kids. We’re also not having any issues with the Italian kid. Kind of in the middle is the Russian kid we hosted, who struggled a bit with understanding the how casual Americans are (the affectionate teasing that we do, joking around at any old time, hanging out for the purpose of hanging out, etc. but he eventually got it down like an old pro). At the far end are the east Asian kids. It’s pretty consistently an issue to get them to open up, advocate for themselves, tell us if something’s wrong, etc. They get there eventually, usually, but it’s always the biggest journey for them. I can respect that it isn’t easy. I’m sure I’d have a much worse go of trying to adapt to their cultures, based on how hard of a time just dealing with the indirectness of the southeast US.
I just wanted to add, but didn’t know where to squeeze it in, that they apparently don’t do lame-ass dad jokes in Russia. It was a brand new experience for him, and he mastered it by the time he left. I’m really proud of him, and I hope he’s doing okay.
I’m American, studying in Germany with about half my cohort being East Asian students. To me, it seems like we’re square in the middle and I’ll give you an example:
We were asked how we would address it, if we saw our dear roommate finally wearing the sweater they’d spent months knitting and it looked bad. In broad strokes, the Asian students would not address it, the Germans would say they didn’t like the sweater, and the (north and south, not just US) American students would find something they honestly liked to complement and not address anything else.
Some Germans would also find something positive to say about the sweater (“I don’t like the color, but it’s a beautiful knit” or something similar), but they only mentioned that after the American students said their approach, so I’m not sure if that was just social pressure from all the non Germans being shocked at their answer.
These are all totally valid, by the way, it’s just better to be prepared for it. A few days before this class, I showed my old (German) roommate some of my wedding pictures and he told me he didn’t like my lipstick. I still have no idea what the point in that is, but I probably would have taken it better if it had happened after the class discussion.
Edit: I’ve since thought more about this, and given that the others found the American position dishonest (it is intentionally telling only the flattering/socially easier part of your opinion), I can see how each of them would consider theirs the middle position: the Asian students would think that instead of insulting or flattering their roommate, they’d just say nothing; German students would think that instead of saying nothing or exaggerating their positive feelings, they’d just say the truth.
I guess it’s more of a wheel than a line based spectrum
Bless your heart.
Good grief. There are times I miss the south, but I had a hard time with that indirect stuff. It was being neurodivergent on hard mode.
Man, it ain’t easy with neurotypical
I reckon we’re a little behind Germany (as the exemplar of extreme directness)
??
Germans are, in my experience, often presented as speaking the most directly. That is, they tend to say exactly what they mean and are less afraid of saying something that might be considered rude or uncomfortable by less direct cultures.
I can’t confirm that.
I think this entire “the Americans” and “the Germans” and “the Japanese” thing in this post is probably super productive and leads us somewhere useful!
It’s really broad strokes and focused on a snapshot of one element of the contemporary culture of those places. I think there’s nothing wrong with acknowledging these differences, no more than acknowledging that different cultures celebrate holidays differently.
My American-immigrant-in-Germany self snorted when I read that Americans were direct. It’s a spectrum, for sure.
I live in a very direct culture, but that does not mean we’re being impolite towards each other. I work with a lot of immigrants from cultures which do not separate these two concepts, however, and when you tell them to be more direct, or if they are not getting anywhere by merely hinting at what they need, they quickly switch to:
- frowning
- shouting, or talking very loud
- using very short sentences, as if they were ordering people around
- being borderline insulting
And that is not acceptable in any society. I was absolutely miffed by this many times until I understood that they don’t actually know communication which is both direct AND polite because they didn’t grow up with it.
I put together a quick illustration to show what I mean:
So, the people I’m talking about go from top left to bottom right, maybe brushing on bottom left, because that’s the only direction they know.
Lol
– a German
I mean, there is sarcasm and dark humor here in Japan. It doesn’t always work in the same way, however.
There’s a ton of it. But it takes a long time to learn how exactly to express it well, and some people don’t like it at all.
So to all the language learners, don’t use sarcasm until years after after you can understand when others are using it.
Or use it, and have trouble making friends. Either way.
Definitely. It’s also worth noting that most people here will probably take a learning trying to do sarcasm in the way they might in the US as just making mistakes (or being serious). I would add you probably want to avoid it with people you’re just meeting.
I’ve heard from multiple expats living in Japan that Japanese people just do not recognize sarcasm at all and just react as if the person is completely serious.
Which is its own form of sarcasm
I think it’s more in the delivery. Some things that might also sound sarcastic in English can also just sound insulting in Japanese so directly translating won’t work like that. There’s also the matter that, no matter which language, both parties are presumably non-native-level in opposite languages which makes processing information and delivery harder.
I’ve been in Japan almost a decade now.
you mean like creating horror by unneccesary brutal force to someone else like all the world would just be a game would NOT be funny to japanese people as it is to the us ppl who enjoy doing so calling it sarcasm or dark humor?
forget about the us! tell me more about those great japanese people living in a country way greater than the us could ever be (at least during that occupation of white brutish -once british- invaders), i already like them more than the us ppl by the way they don’t ‘joke’ about victims of terror, war crimes and such!
is this a new cringe bot I haven’t been made aware of? What even is this comment?
Not sure if the replier saying that Japan doesn’t do sarcasm is being earnest or sarcastic…
If it’s in earnest, it’s wrong. Americans are far from the most sarcastic people on the planet.
Why is this dude replying to a reddit question on Twitter?
So we can all grumble about it on Lemmy.
It’s a cultural thing
There’s any number of reasons. They might have a friend who uses Reddit who sent it to them. They might have replied on Reddit, and also have thought it worth broadcasting to their shitter followers as well. They might browse Reddit on desktop but not have an account.
Seems like the part of this thread where we’re depositing gripes, so I’ll just pile on without being helpful or answering your question:
The shit is backwards. It’s like hearing the punchline of a joke before the setup. Posts like this translate so poorly to screenshots
America is a big place. Sarcasm isn’t popular everywhere. Here in the rustbelt it’s king. Other than one 9/11 meme I saw yesterday I’m not too aware of any 9/11 jokes, can say the same for Hiroshima & Nagasaki
New Yorker here, many of us (or at least most people I know) enjoy a good 9/11 joke. Mostly young people afaik.
As a New Yorker who was around at the time, I’m pretty sure I told my first 9/11 joke on 9/12.
I’ve seen quite a few “A second ___ has hit the ___” memes in my time.
The situation is similar in Korea. A friend and I went to see Drag Me to Hell here and we were a bit embarrassed to be busting a gut in a dead silent theater. Horror comedy doesn’t work here at all.
There’s an entire political party dedicated to political satire in Japan (the nhk party or the anti nhk party, I forget which one)…
Hey they told us to never forget they didn’t specify how.
Japanese comedy is 70-80 years behind
Idk man some of these are hilarious. https://www.boredpanda.com/mundane-halloween-hilarious-costumes-japan-taiwan/
Costumes are “comedy”?
They can be, look at the examples, I think it counts.
You might be a little too deep into Japanese culture clouding your common sense, friendo
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I can’t wait for Japan’s “WHERES THE BEEF” phase.
I mean most of their comedy is “Manzai”, which is essentially Abbott & Costello.
Japanese culture is still very much Confucian, so any sort of making light of authority figures or anyone deemed “above” oneself in the caste-like hierarchy is not done, not even ironically.
Takeshis castle is still unmatched
Yeah that’s my point. That is literally the comedic level of prat falls and people slipping on banana peels.
If Godzilla is sarcasm/satire then yes.
Hiroshima and Nagasaki had 60 times as many deaths and many more with lasting injuries including radiation sickness, and rather than being shoved down everyone’s throats by the media and politicians as a justification to start a bunch of pointless wars that got a bunch of people killed, they were instead used as a reason to end a stupid pointless war that got a bunch of people killed. There’s good reasons to mock 9/11, but not the atomic bombings.
More generally though Americans tend to be more irreverent, and imo a lot of that has to do with religion. Most Japanese people aren’t religious at all, and their religions don’t often intersect with the political sphere - it’s almost unimaginable if all you’ve known is the US. In the US, mocking certain topics is a way of establishing which group you belong to, and there’s many different groups in the US who all hate each other and are constantly making fun of each other.
Jerry Seinfeld kills in Japan
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