I always considered marriage the epitome of feeling connected: you share a life with a partner and maybe even have children. Society at least acts like it is.
I have a coworker in his 40s, conservative and Christian, married to a woman holding a job, he is also employed and has a good job, all things considered and they have a child.
I don’t see this person much but each time he sees me he approaches to basically complain and rant, mostly about democrats and foreigners, getting very emotional to the point of crying.
At first I hated him for spewing so much shit, but now I think I’m starting to pity him: he has a job, is married to a working woman, they have a child, they are homeowners… and he still feels angry and needs to rant to feel good. It’s like he’s angry at everything.
Which takes me to think, maybe there are things men need emotionally that women cannot provide, but I couldn’t write a list.
What are some of these connections men need out of a marriage?
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Ignoring his political alignment, anybody who comes to work and vent about their home life just sucks in general. Doesn’t matter what walk of life they come from.
Fucking energy vampire.
They’re not lonely, they’re just assholes.
The thing about marriage is that anybody can do it. You don’t have to love somebody to marry them. It isn’t special. There’s no test you have to take together or qualifications you have to meet.
So yeah - he’s angry, and lonely, and he’s also married, but none of those things are related to each other.
Sounds like he needs therapy, but in our society men aren’t encouraged to share emotions if it doesn’t perpetuate an image of strength. So he’s expressing his emotions in a “socially acceptable” way: anger. Which is probably what also got him into these backwards ideas about his political ideology as well.
Marriage is a legal and religious construct. It does not fix a lack of connection.
I met a former religious couple at my old job.
She and her husband are in their 40s and tried to invite us to an orgy. I did the polite thing and let them know maybe later.
She showed me photos of her dressed like an Amish person in her 30s. She shared that during that time, her kids and church kept her busy. She and her husband never felt aligned, but they feel a strong loneliness when they’re not together.
And when her kids went to college, she and her husband finally bonded and discovered they both love orgies. And it was only at that moment when, after like 20 years of marriage, did they actually connect as human beings.
Wild.
Aww, what a cute story. I’m happy for them
Yes, it’s possible to feel lonely while you’re married. Because “to feel lonely” might mean a thousand different things: lack of physical affection, lack of emotional bonding, lack of intellectual stimulus, lack of ability to coordinate and do stuff together… and only some of those are fulfilled by a romantic relationship. (A good relationship should fulfil more of them, but you won’t get the full package ever.) And often the other person doesn’t have time for you, even if they’re trying their hardest to be a good mate.
That said, it doesn’t seem to me that he feels lonely, but rather that he feels frustrated with something. As people said perhaps therapy would do him good.
I think you are conflating the vision of success with happiness. These two things hold no relation.
Yes, it’s entirely possible to be married and still feel alone.
However, ranting about democrats and foreigners tells me this is not about being married or not. The guy has problems and worries that have nothing to do with marriage.
Still, I can somewhat relate. Living in another country since many years (because reasons), and I don’t feel at home. Happily married, with kids, all good. But I’m not home, y’know?
People here don’t need me; they all hang out with their childhood friends they’ve known forever. I’m the new guy, even after all these years. That makes me feel lonely. And it has nothing to do with being married.
Could be his loneliness leads him to seek out that kind of political thought, cause and effect aren’t clearly established here. Isolation and other stressors have been known to drive people toward more reactionary conservative ideas.
But like others have said it could be his worldview leading to him feeling lonely and isolated, maybe threatened by changes in the world. It’s not your responsibility to help him but I occasionally see people become less reactionary when I try to include them more, not directly contradict them but steer him in kind of an anti-corporations and wealth-inequality kind of way (or something like that) when they act like this. He might be trying to bond over a what he perceives as a shared patriotic struggle and become your friend?
Even if you don’t agree 100% it’ll probably be a small relief if he knows someone he trusts has concerns about the percieved injustices of the world, and letting him vent probably helps too. Traditional Christian masculinity can be kind of claustrophobic and I could see him talking with OP as trying to broaden his horizons, as paradoxical as that might seem.
Either way good luck to OP and I hope the coworker’s outlook improves.
Anyone can be lonely at any time, even surrounded by people who love them.
I’m happily married, I love my wife very much, she is my favorite person and I would be devastated and lost without her. Still, sometimes I feel lonely.
Sometimes I think about my dad who isn’t with us any longer and I feel lonely. Sometimes I think about work stress and I feel lonely. Sometimes I feel lonely for no damn reason at all.
None of that has anything to do with how much I love my wife, or her ability to “provide”; people are just complicated.
I feel sad for his wife. Unless she’s hateful too.
look, this person is probably an asshole regardless, but to answer you: Yes. Maybe more than if you are single. I stated dating a guy that was super rich and good-looking and he was super nice to me, It was like a real life fairy tale… until we got married and the routine started to show us how lonely we were with each other. We had nothing in comom, he was a bit dumb and shallow and the only subject he was interested was sports. I hate sports and like movies, shows and science. At the end he would say i was too nerd and I would say he was too dumb, but the reality is that he was very nice and so was I, we just were not ment for each other.
Please don’t judge what women can provide by this sad, angry man.
To your core topic, of course you can be married and lonely. Being married doesn’t necessarily mean you are spending a lot of quality time together, or genuinely communicating when you do. Married people have jobs, housework, kids to take care of, and whatever time remains after that is often exhausted recovery time when not a lot of social intercourse is happening.
Conservatives often have more of a “battle of the sexes” mentality where men are supposed to be MEN and women are supposed to know their place. First of all this warps everyone since these roles may not suit their native personality. And on top of that, the male role includes a bunch of sexism - be stoic around women, etc. Conservative men try to be stoic overall, but a lot of them are also loudmouths because their values are so black-and-white they have a tendency to really, really think they are right and therefore should tell the world.
This guy is probably stoic around his wife and a loudmouth at work. A healthier person would have a marriage where they can talk about what’s bothering them, and then be professional at work. He’s clearly got emotional problems but then Conservatives also have backwards attitudes about mental health. It’s not something they think about and try to manage. Again: black and white. If you’re not fucking crazy then you don’t have a mental health problem, you just need to suck it up. It’s no failing of this man if he is cracking. He’s been set up to fail.
Absolutely you should pity him. That doesn’t mean you have to listen to his loudmouth politics in the workplace.
Other commenters have done a better job addressing your questions more directly, but I want to piggyback off of this question to point something else out: the atomic family, the suburban dream is extremely isolating and breeds loneliness
When you live in your house, only enter and leave by the garage and your neighbors do the same, you will never interact with your neighbors, and your neighbors will never interact with you.
Driving to the store in your personal vehicle there’s no sense of shared identity to start interacting with other people meaningfully. You’re just various individuals in the same space
Having kids can be extremely isolating as to go out to do anything you must either have a babysitter (and be able to afford said babysitter) or bring the kids with you. No opportunity for spontaneity, and it quickly gets expensive to just spend grownup time with friends unless you and your partner spend the time seperately. And taking your kids to events means paying more attention to your kids and the event than meeting anyone else. And if you have a special needs child it can be even more isolating as you are no longer sharing experiences with your fellow parents except for those who also have special needs kids.
We need to do things to foster community and encourage people to talk to strangers more. Having good conversations with strangers is how you make friends, and is a great treatment for loneliness
The decline of the Third Space is an interesting social phenomenon.
The more comments I read the more apt this is. Without places to just be, with no expectation or obligation to be a consumer, somewhere to be around people with or without socializing. Makes you feel like part of your community, part of something that’s bigger than you, to be seen, to be acknowledged.
People that isolate themselves become isolated. I just don’t use a car, but go often with the kids by train to meet other families. We meet strangers and have fun, but sometimes I am lonely anyway. Sometimes in the middle of a chaotic people storm. It’s just what I “blame” it on that is the biggest difference. It’s the way we talk to others, if we are open and if those meet our vulnerability that is the biggest contributor imo. You can never be lonely if someone really cares about you.
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Brah. braaaahhh
Idk what else to say. Just, braaahhhh
I think that sometimes what happens to people is that they build the life that they implicitly believe they are “supposed” to be living because that is what they see everyone else around them doing, rather than based on an honest self-assessment of whether this really is the what will make them happy. When they realize that this life is not actually making them very unhappy, they look for outside factors to blame because they did everything that they were “supposed” to be doing so it could not have been their own misinformed choices that led them to this point.
And in fairness, no one chooses where they are born and the cultural conditioning that we receive, so this is not entirely their fault. It is really a societal problem that we do not encourage enough people to engage in true self-introspection to figure out for themselves what is important to them and what they want to get out of life so that they make these kinds of decisions with great deliberation and personal self-insight rather than taking the default option.
each time he sees me he approaches to basically complain and rant, mostly about democrats and foreigners,
And you wonder why he seems lonely?
Maybe if he didn’t do that, more people would want to spend time with him.
Yes, my ex wife and I can attest to that. Your coworker seems like a dick and should talk to a therapist.
