- cross-posted to:
- politicalmemes@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- politicalmemes@lemmy.world
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I didn’t like her purchase and manipulation of the Democrat party, and abrogating the democratic process in denying the people their choice of Bernie Sanders.
But hey, let’s not quibble about words.
Yeah, from my perspective, it failed long before that. The Democrats couldn’t achieve their true objective if they had allowed Bernie to be elected, which was to give the illusion of a better option while ensuring that the status quo isn’t affected where it relates to power and wealth.
Bernie was blocked for the same reason Biden isn’t trying to block Israel from destroying Palestine.
I mean yeah that’s true but it’s not like Trump is gonna be pro-palestine.
If anything he is gonna be even more pro-israel because it’s a white supremacist colony.
it’s not like Trump is gonna be pro-palestine
Trump loves Netanyahu for doing in Israel what he wants to do in the US.
Biden loves Israel because he’s bought all the Only Liberal Democracy In The Middle East propaganda they’ve been spewing for decades.
But if you’re a college student getting your head cracked by a SWAT team storming the Columbia campus, Biden is the one asking for your vote. Trump is asking for the SWAT guy’s vote.
And that’s why Trump is going to win. The SWAT guy is going to turn out for Trump while the protester spends the day in the ER.
I’m actually surprised we haven’t heard Trump talking about nuking Gaza yet.
So… People tell me an election year is no time to talk about electoral reform. Every US election year. But! After the election, they scurry away under the refrigerator and stay there for 4 years. I know you have to hold your nose while you vote this time, but catch these weird centrists before they disappear and hold their feet to the fire to influence change. You deserve better than this “I’m not voting for _, I’m voting against _” nonsense. Your government is hurting all of us. Stop it, please.
Who has told you not to talk about electoral reform in an election year? I’ve never heard that.
On top of that, there are plenty of people who are working to change our election system the whole time. The problem is the “I hate the two party system!” People by and large just vote every few years. I work with some locally that are trying to change things from the ground up.
Ugh, Facebook people, mostly. And thank you for being the change you want to see in the world.
I think the wheel of history turns on a greater axle than a presidential election. Look at Europe, and the rest of the global north. The machine of neoliberal imperialism has created global instability and climate crisis, and the rich are locking down their spoils with right wing nationalism.
Trump was a fluke, he’d have had more bites at the apple in 2020/2024 and eventually get a win. If not him, then some evangelical fascist.
Absolutely. We’re seeing a return of authoritarian candidates in many first world nations. The people that witnessed Hitler’s rise are mostly gone, leaving many to overlook or minimize similar patterns of behavior.
As far as the US is concerned, Trump made the hat. Someone else will put it on.
The dominance of the far-right in France’s elections and in European elections in general this cycle is really frightening. That being said, I think a lot of their success comes from tactics inspired by Trump’s… Trump became an internet icon, he was turned into a piece of popular culture. The European far-right are doing the same, they’re REALLY good at social media propoganda and utilising social media to get young people to vote for them. Looking at 2019 vs 2024, the difference in young voters’ attitudes would be unbelievable then.
Russian psyops. They’re beaten The West without firing a shot, except for Ukraine and Syria.
Ha! If you think fascism in Europe is going to end well for Russia, you don’t remember history.
Russia itself is already fascist. It is currently ethnically purging Crimea, and festers on patriottism and nationalism, with a person cult, a single dominant party, and cronyism.
Doesn’t matter all that much. Fascism needs enemies, even within the same ideology.
The fascism on the rise right now isnt the same as in the 30s and russia right now isnt the same as in the 30s. I dont see any reason to believe that the european fascists would turn on their biggest supporter.
Yeah Russia will be in Neo-Hitler’s side this time. At least that seems to be their plan.
The machine of neoliberal imperialism has created global instability and climate crisis, and the rich are locking down their spoils with right wing nationalism.
I want this on my tombstone so the alien archeologists that eventually visit our ruined husk of a world can know what happened.
they’ll already know and the financiers of any such project will work to mitigate any impact that message might have or prevent it from becoming well know; as has already happened.
If from 2 choices 1 means the death of democracy, the democracy is already dead. That was already true back then. I hate this post because I completly bushes over that fact and is only there to guilt trip people who want real change outside the 2 party system.
Vote D, and also do your v-for-vendetta shenanigans. No reason not to do both if you’re all in.
It’s more like it’s in a coma right now. It’s not responding to stimulus, but there are signs of life. Theoretically if democrats win decisively, the Republican party could be forced to move to the center to become electable again.
But, if the Republicans win, it could be the end of democracy in the US. The Republicans know the odds of their winning another free and fair election are near zero, so their best bet to stay in power is to make sure they don’t have to face any more free and fair elections.
Despite all the chaos, despite the Republicans attempting to kill the democratic process, the Biden administration has actually managed quite a few meaningful and positive things. He’s not a very inspiring option as “leader of the free world”, but as someone who sits at the head of the table and delegates things out, his record is pretty good. But, it’s pretty damning that the system has Americans choosing between a criminal fascist, and an old man who probably won’t last 4 years.
The American supreme courts massive and 180 turn from the previous decades of law is the textbook definition of tyranny. America used to have a grand tradition of what to do with tyrants.
America always had big propaganda against other people’s tyrants, never against their own.
And Truman would have something to say about all of the Russian-bought members of Congress. History is cyclical, and we’re approaching another authoritarian period for global powers.
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I’m not defending America’s actions. I’m stating that many members of US Congress are funded by Russian oligarchs.
The influence was apparent when Republicans withheld aid from Ukraine until they were forced to choose between funding Ukraine along with Israel, or leaving Israel without weapons.
Does that sound like a government body that is representing its constituents?
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How about you tell that to The Speaker Of The House?
https://www.newsweek.com/who-konstantin-nikolaev-money-mike-johnson-1870600
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Bother someone else with your agenda.
OK, but sending weapons to either of these places is bad, both for the people whose wealth is being wasted to blow up people on the other side of the world, mostly civilians (almost entirely civilians in Israel’s case) and the people getting blown up
Supplying Ukraine with the weapons needed to defend themselves against a Russian invasion is bad?!?
The US is not supplying Ukraine with weapons because they have any interest in the well-being of the people in Ukraine. They are supplying the weapons to extend a war as long as possible to weaken Russia, at the expense of hundreds of thousands of dead and wounded Ukrainians and millions displaced.
This is infinitely worse for the people living there than if Russia won a quick victory or if we’d taken literally any off-ramp in the last decade.
Fucking what?
It doesn’t matter what the US supplies Ukraine. It’s Ukraines fight. It’s up to Ukraine to decide to forfeit the fight or to keep fighting.
By your logic we (humanity) should just let any country invade any other country and take over it’s people just because “it’s easier to give in than fight.” Giving in would be for the benefit of the people, right? That’s what you’re saying? Fuck right off.
Russia should not have invaded Ukraine in the first place.
If you haven’t yet, I recommend watching Traumazone. All 7 hours of it offers a beautiful insight in USSR 1980’s to 1999.
Yes, USA supported shitty stuff. But the system rotted itself out first with corruption and production mismatching demand while fighting pointless war in Afghanistan, which created the power vacuum and collapse.
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The west sure did buy a FUCKTON of oil from the Soviet Union for people who were apparently trying to bankrupt them since 1917
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Oh, but the West only gave the money in order to bankrupt the Soviets, you see
I’m glad I’m not the only one seeing this happen all over the world. All over the world we have feckless neoliberal parties failing to represent their people and getting replaced with populist right-wingers.
All over the world
Showing your bias here, because really this is only happening in Europe and the Anglosphere.
Not just Europe and the anglosphere. It’s also happening in Latin America (ecuador), and that’s basically all the regions where democracy used to be prevalent.
The middle east is still as dictatorial as it always was. Asia is still as dictatorial as it always has. Africa is still as dictatorial as it always has. I know all of these regions are huge and diverse, and that there are democracies. But none of them I can think of has gained democracy.
So the places that had democracy are turning less democratic, and the places that had little democracy still have little democracy. I’d say that’s an “All over the world” thing.
Meanwhile Brazil went back to their last progressive president after Bolsonaro’s failure, and Bolivia has foiled two attempted coups by reactionary forces. Venezuela and Cuba also remain strong, with the latter being possibly the most democratic country on this planet.
In Africa, the most notable “democracies” that have been overthrown in recent memory were all client states of western countries whose previous governments cannot in good faith be said to have been representative of the people.
The Middle East is pretty bad, what with Israel going full fash in the past year. It’s not like they haven’t been edging for decades, though.
But in Asia, the only country that might be more democratic than Cuba is China, and they’re as strong as they’ve ever been. Since that’s 1/5th of the population of this planet living under one of its premier democratic governments, I’d say the prognosis for global democracy is fine.
So the most Democratic countries on this planet according to you are cuba and china. Both of them are 1-party states, and China is straight up a surveillance state. Ok lol.
Does china pay you or are you spreading their bullshit propaganda for free?
Cuba’s democracy is actually a 0-party state. Candidates stand on their own for election, and most politics are run through local orgs and workplaces. They recently concluded one of the most democratic exercises in the history of the Western Hemisphere, when through a series of local referendums they amended their constitution. No lobbyists, no special interests, no controlled media - an almost totally pure example of a government run by citizens, for citizens.
As for China, the Chinese people have something like 90%+ satisfaction with their central government, as measured by independent observers. The reason for this is their commitment to Full Process Democracy, which means that your democratic participation in the system doesn’t end with your vote for a representative - low and mid level officials are required to constantly be polling their constituencies, and they can be dismissed (either by a recall election or by higher ups) if they don’t act in accordance with the desires of the people they’re supposed to represent.
Furthermore, China’s ruling party may be one party on paper, but it is “one party” that is made up of over one hundred million members. It has internal factions that range from neoliberal to anarcho-communist, and it is very intentionally embedded into every single Chinese institution. Most of the service that the CPC provides to the people is provided at a local or even individual level - for example, a Chinese worker’s equivalent to a union leader is a coworker who’s with the party, where if you have problems with your boss you can get it resolved through them.
The US is effectively a one-party system as well, because the rest of the world gets fucked over either way you guys vote.
At least there’s Lula in Brazil. And I’m sure someone could come and tell me something bad about him, but not being Bolsonaro is a huge improvement, and I’ve heard other good things. In fact I believe the majority of Latin America is under leaders to the left of the US Democrats. And no I’m not counting non democracies like Venezuela or Cuba.
Because in a lot of other places, or was already the case.
a grand tradition of what to do with tyrants.
America as a nation was created by a subset of landed gentry who didn’t like paying taxes. They wanted to make Washington king. The founding fathers were basically the Megamind meme where Tighten (yes, it’s spelled Tighten, not “Titan”) says to the Mayor of the city: “More like under new management.”
The founders were not a monolith and had mega-disagreements about how to proceed from day 1.
“okay, we’re not gonna have political parties, right guys?”
Immediately form federalist and anti-federalist factions
Sure, and they still managed to pass the alien and sedition acts. Saying they weren’t a monolith is a way of dismissing the mountain of evidence that suggests that, for most of them, participation in the democratic process of an inchoate American republic was intended only for a small segment of the population - literate (i.e. wealthy) white men. I’d suggest A People’s History of the United States if you want a better perspective on that.
Yes, his name was Andrew Jackson, and he told the Supreme Court to go fuck itself, and we survived him too. This stuff changes and evolves.
America used to have a grand tradition of what to do with tyrants.
Which is the same playbook as democratically elected leaders of foreign nations. Bombs, drones and CIA-soonsored assassinations
No, no, I was assured Hillary Clinton was Basically The Same as Trump and Both Sides Were Bad.
Uhhh and today the SCOTUS decided that Trump can never be prosecuted for anything he did or will do whilst president, so actually, democracy died today. Biden won’t abuse this. Trump will, and there will be nothing to stop him from enacting his dictator plans. About that, and the political assassinations, and the president for life, I think Trump is serious.
Says the people who swallowed the genocide every year they’ve been alive but decided to get unproductively upset at the moment it will help conservatives most.
Not in 2000. Republicans win when Democrats abstain or vote third-party. I’m not judging, but sharing personal experience. I voted for Nader along with plenty of others. In turn, we had Bush respond to 9/11 and decide how to address climate change instead of Gore.
Yes in 2000, third party didn’t cede yhe election to Bush.
There were much more influential factors.
- Disenfranchisement of democratically leaning voters, voting machines literally being relocated for no reason on election Day.
These " random, unforeseeable" technical problems across many states coincidentally disenfranchised black and white voters 10 to 1 vote.
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Before the votes were counted, katherine Harris, who worked for Jeb Bush, the governor of California and George Bush’s brother, requested that at that specific moment, while George Bush had a lead in the number of Florida votes recounted, Florida election officials be allowed to stop counting votes(If they kept counting, the projection was for Gore to win the count a second time)
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That went to the supreme Court, who said “yea, election officials shouldn’t be made to count every vote if they don’t want to”, so George Bush ended up winning in his Governor brother’s state.
Those travesties had a much greater impact, a magnitude greater, than your perfectly legitimate vote for Nader.
In every election, you should vote for the candidate than most aligns with your views.
I’m voting for Biden because he has an impressive executive track record on civil rights, the environment, sustainable technology in his first term and I hope he does the same in the second.
No other candidate that I’m aware of is more likely to do as much for the issues I think should be most urgently addressed.
Anyone voting for the green party or any third party should not be dissuaded from doing so because the American election system is broken.
By voting for a third party, they’re fixing that break.
Don’t forget that the ballots in Florida were really poorly designed, and caused Pat Buchanan to get a very high number of Democratic votes.
Thanks, I’m glad you brought it up.
Instead of leaving that Chad… Hanging??? 😅
Haha, niice
Please explain how voting third-party fixes anything when a third-party candidate has never received even one electoral vote
in the history of our nationsince 1968.George Wallace got some electoral college votes because he was a flagrant racist.
I didn’t know that! I knew he was a famously bad candidate, but I just looked it up, and you’re right. Turns out he won 46 votes. Not bad.
In first world countries, voting third parties is called" “voting”, where you vote for the preferred candidate.
Voting for a third party fixes The way that Americans think voting is supposed to work, that you choose the color you like the best and bleed for them regardless of what you believe in.
That’s nice and all, but in the US we use the Electoral College to vote for President. They are in no way obligated to follow the popular vote. Candidates need 270 electoral votes to become President. A third-party candidate has never received even one electoral vote since 1968.
Also, the US is no longer a first-world country due to wealth inequality and lack of accessible healthcare nationwide. We have been downgraded to a developing nation.
Yes, those are both of my points from the previous comment.
The voting system in the US is broken and people need to start voting correctly.
They are too afraid to.
As I’ve mentioned, the US is not a first world nation. That’s why I said that first world countries know how to vote, while the US does not.
Why are you framing my own points defensively?
The voting system in the US is broken and people need to start voting correctly
You’re missing the point. As long as the electoral college and first past the post remain, third party candidates will never win. Never. It has nothing at all to do with people being “too afraid”.
The last time a 3rd-party candidate got ANY electoral votes(despite what the other person said, it has happened) was in 1968, and that was literally only because it was during the tail end of the civil rights movement and Nixon wasn’t quite racist enough for the south compared to the full blown white supremacist George Wallace.
The ONLY time a 3rd-party candidate has done better than one of the two major parties was over 100 years ago in 1912. The only reason for that is because the candidate in question was 2x former Republican President Theodore Roosevelt, running as a 3rd-party specifically to oppose his handpicked successor turned rival Taft, who had become immensely unpopular with Rooseveltian Republicans. Well, two reasons: surviving an assassination attempt & giving a speech leaking blood with the bullet still in him like a total badass, just weeks before the election, probably helped too. Guess what though, it caused a huge spoiler effect that gave Woodrow Wilson a landslide 81.9% of the electoral vote despite only getting 41.8% of the popular vote.
Third parties are just inherently incompatible with our current election system. We need to adopt ranked choice voting and ditch the electoral college first.
Republicans win close races via fuckery. While US Americans are all distracted by the presidential race, republicans around the country are plotting all kinds of fuckery to rig the congressional races, the ones that are collectively far more important than the presidency.
Everyone is focused on Joe Biden, but the reality is that, without a democratic congressional majority, very little will continue to happen. Even with a majority in both the house and senate, i don’t think Democrats will fix (or want to fix) many of the broken parts of the system, like Citizen’s United, FISA, Copyright, DMCA, healthcare, supreme court expansion, gerrymandering, anti-trust and regulations, regulating Wall Street, regulating banks, fixing the housing market, taking power back from the supreme court, etc.
It’s not fuckery. It’s voter disengagement. Republicans know that they have limited numbers, but they vote with party loyalty. All they need to do is sour the left on their candidate to win. The largest historical Democratic turnout was 2020.
Brooks brothers riot was absolutely republican fuckery.
That’s fair. I should’ve written it’s not exclusively fuckery.
Regardless, voter disenfranchisement has been their main play for decades. They keep doing it because it works without having to speak to the good qualities of their own candidate.
Voter disengagement helped along by media consolidation. It’s not profitable to cover House races anymore unless something crazy is happening, so people aren’t made aware of it. State and local elections are even worse. Sometimes the only information about a candidate I can find is their private Facebook profile.
100%. Many fly under the radar and hope to catch a downballot win.
I’m referring to Jan 6th, the widespread election deniers, and the fake elector’s plot. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_fake_electors_plot
Oh we’ve cared. It’s just that previous democratic presidents were working to stop settlements and work towards the two state solution.
This turbo kill approach is new.
Biden is the first US president to issue sanctions against Israeli colonizers on Palestinian land.
Previous presidents of any side for the past 70 years have been sending military aid to Israel.
You got your facts way wrong.
Yeah sure, he sanctioned 5 of them. While he’s supplying massive amounts of war material for their genocide. It’s performative at best. And those settlers are still blocking aid with the help of the Israeli authorities who tell them where to find the shipments and don’t clear them off the road.
They’re sanctions against illegal Israeli colonization and he’s the first president to issue them.
He even paused military aid to Israel, which I don’t think has ever happened before either.
Biden was also the first president to directly contradict Israel and enact consequences over the idfs policy even though the IDF have been executing civilians for decades.
You couldn’t be more off base.
That pause is evidence itself that he knew they were committing war crimes with our military aid. Which he did not pause even 90% of. He paused airplane bombs. Everything else from Bullets to Artillery shells was still getting sent the entire time.
And your statement is false, Bush got them to remove settlements. I was just talking about previous democrats but if we want to include all presidents then there are certainly some who have done more to slow down Israel. For example in the 1990’s there was the Oslo Accords.
Performative actions do not absolve you of illegally supplying weapons to a criminal regime.
So your contention is that
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Although Biden is the only president to actively contradict and issue sanctions against the Israeli government and its settlers for their colonization and war crimes,
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Biden’s the least active president to actively contradict and issue sanctions against the Israeli government and its settlers for their colonization and war crimes.
Even though nobody else has contradicted Israel or issued sanctions and Biden has.
You are confused.
You are ignoring key issues I’ve brought up to continue your counter factual narrative. I’m used to dealing with this from Republicans. Getting this from Democrats is seriously disappointing.
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Thank you for saying the truth. I’ve cared since the 80s. It’s cute people turned on the news. Gaza has nothing to do with our elections unless you’re a Russian plant.
Absolutely, or a limp maga.
People have gone from blindly supporting anything #Israel and condemning anything #Palestine without making any distinctions between civilians and their government, and then once they couldn’t deny the violence, they were like “got it, so Israel always bad and Palestine always good” without learning anything more about the situation.
Exactly. Everything is a binary now. No nuance.
I think you all have a delusionally inflated opinion of both Bernie Sanders and progressive politics as a whole.
Bernie is a self described socialist. He lost in the primaries to middling candidates in both 2016 and 2020. He in particular has dismal performance among women over 30 and black people as a whole.
The progressive movement as a whole is even worse. At least Bernie makes an attempt to win hearts and minds. Progressives are obsessed with insane purity tests and horrible messaging that alienates everyone who doesn’t already agree with them.
Look at this tweet. The whole “anyone remotely to the right of me on Israel/Palestine is morally repugnant” stuff works in echo chambers, but would get you absolutely rocked in an election.
(Woman over 30 here) I caucused for Bernie in Nevada in 2020, and he won the state my dude. He also won Iowa, New Hampshire, California, and Colorado before dropping out. Where do you think our love for Bernie is “over inflated”? He had support amongst the people.
If by “the people”, you mean “a minority of voters in the democratic primaries, which historically are a lot more amicable to progressive candidates such as Bernie than the general electorate” then sure.
Bernie dropped out because there was no realistic way for him to win the primaries. He’d get bodied in the general election.
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Once people started learning more about Bernie, they would more than likely be a supporter.
https://twitter.com/kendrick38/status/1233214590588248069
Biden has the support of 31 percent of black Democratic primary voters, while Sanders captures the backing of 29 percent. Aggregated data from 2019 shows that Biden led Sanders among these voters by as much as 30 percentage points in NBC News/WSJ national polls last year.
Who are you replying to?
This post isn’t going to be popular on Lemmy but it is extremely accurate.
Hillary would have done the same thing as Biden on Israel
Democrats have failed to fix all the insane crap Regean did because the DNC learned about how much money they were missing out on
I still maintain Bernie should run independent. The DNC ensures he will never win the primary, and it was proven by the email leak back in 2016 which is why no one voted for Hillary.
In a first-past-the-post system, an independent only ends up stealing votes from the mainstream candidate that’s closest to their position. He’d undermine the Democratic candidate, making a Republican win more likely. He’s smart enough not to want to do that.
Maybe we could find a 50 yo with Bernie’s values and he could be on their cabinet. Idgaf about vibes, but maybe we could put someone in that’s not on deaths door?
“Keep quiet or Ill turn this democracy around, so help me God!”
We’re still doing ‘I don’t like his vibes’.
People who think our presidential elections are only recently fucked up are morons. Since basically day 1 the politics and seedyness and bullshit going on behind the scenes has always been insane.
There’s some kind of narcissistic selfishness that constantly has a need for THIS time, OUR time to be the worst ever.
I mean, for the majority of the country’s history, huge portions of its population had literally no democracy due to no right to vote. But I guess we’ll ignore that.
We had portions of our history that were rocky as hell due to shifting balances of power between the federal branches, especially in the first 100 years.
We literally had a fucking civil war.
It’s always so interesting to me how people just ignore how bad it’s always been, and how many times the country did not, in fact, literally end, and yet they STILL gin up end of the country fearmongering constantly in every election cycle.
None of this is truly new.
I mean, for the majority of the country’s history, huge portions of its population had literally no democracy due to no right to vote. But I guess we’ll ignore that.
Don’t forget the millions of felons who still don’t. In Florida they passed a direct referendum to give them their franchise back, but the state government employed legal fuckery to prevent it from working as intended.
Yes good point. And how many were incorrectly prisoned, or it’s for kind of stupid offenses that don’t warrant such a right being taken away.
They said most influential in the past 100 years, the civil war was 160 years ago.
100 years ago everyone had the right to vote (though Jim Crow laws limited voting access in many states for people of color, something that’s beginning to be reimplemented to an extent).
I think FDR might have been more influential, but he won in a landslide. Trump got millions fewer votes than his opponent and only won by a couple thousand votes in certain swing states. I think in the past 100 years it was probably the most influential presidential election in the sense that so few votes held so much influence on history.
I think the biggest factor is we have media covering everything 24/7 and when the smallest little detail comes out about something bad it’s blown way up and made to be a huge deal. It’s easy to get sucked into thinking we are in the worst point of history. No political figure can take a shit without some news outlet telling us that’s where they were plotting to blow up the entire world.
The quiet part is out loud now and the dems are acting just as fascist as they yell at us that only they can save us from fascists.
I wouldn’t say they ignore it, it’s just that they’re too stupid to realize it, or they simply never learned/forgot American history from school.
That doesn’t mean it’s going to be fun to live through.
Viva la Gilded Age!
What’s happening in Gaza now has been happening a long time, as President Carter said people weren’t demanding change or horrified in general because ‘‘they don’t know, they don’t want to know’’. The passive approval has been there a long long time. Biden may actually respond to pressure, Trump will be directed by his evangelical base to stoke all out unilateral war, and he’ll approve it.
Nothing here is simple, Biden doesn’t control Isreal, and neither will Trump or anyone else, Trump used ‘Palestinian’ as a slur, an insult. He also expressed his stance against Biden as Biden not aiding Isreal MORE. Who do you think is going to effect change in the direction of ending the genocide?
If you’re against the genocide, why in the world would you let the very pro genocide candidate win?
He can absolutely stop giving them half their ammunition and ordnance. Seems like a lot less Palestinians would die in that case.
