Hey everyone,
I [28F] need some advice on handling anxiety when job hunting.
Almost a week ago I finished school and I’m once again without work. I’ve been job hunting about 40-50% of my adult life and it has taken a huge toll on my mental health to the point where I’m barely able to apply for jobs anymore. I have gotten a few warnings over the years due to not applying to enough jobs. ( I live in Sweden btw )
I have tried taking breaks.
I have tried waiting for the anxiety to pass.
I have asked so many for advice but it’s like they all give the same default answer. If their advice where enough, I would be a pro at job hunting.
I did get an autism diagnosis a few years back and I do feel better about myself, more confident and understanding of how I work so I think this time around will be different, but it’s like the old anxiety still hangs around and I don’t know how to get rid of it.
Please if you have any advice, I’d love to hear it.
40-50% seems high, even for a 28yo, but I don’t know your situation. I find job hunting to be horrific, despite always doing well in interviews.
The reason I do well is because I target the job I want, then mask and overprepare like an absolute psychopath for however long it takes … so I wouldn’t necessarily recommend that.
I’m mostly on the other side of the desk these days, and interviewing other people has revealed a lot about the process. One thing I learned (about senior-level knowledge workers, at least) is that people are often looking for a good fit as much as a person’s capability.
I don’t know what industry you’re in, I’ve been in frontend development and now UX design, and many designers fail to demonstrate soft skills - flexibility of process, communication, emotional intelligence, etc. That doesn’t make up for everything, and some ND individuals find that very hard, but it can be learned.
My point is, I’ve seen many good people miss out because they misjudge how they’re being assessed.
I think I where unemployed so much because I used to be so insecure thinking things like “I have nothing to give this company” I acted like I was sorry for breathing the same air as others and I’ve been scared to say my wants and needs or almost anything at all because I never knew when I would be scolded. (it’s a bit more complex than that, but that’s a story for another time)
So I’ve always agreed to those around me and followed along.But not anymore, after I moved away from home and later got my autism diagnosis, I’m much much better at everything tbh.
I am a frontend dev now, previously I was an electrician (never got a job as that) and a forklift driver, I do have some experience with that.
I like to think my softskills are fairy good but it might take some more time for a NT to see them as I express them in a different way and usually not as obvious. I think.
People don’t often give clear answers when asking about these things.I’ve been thinking about asking to have the interview (or part of it) outside their office, like, if we take a walk or something just to get out of that stiff and understimulating room.
Oh cool ok, so we’re in a similar area of work and it’s great that you’ve got a diagnosis and that it’s been positive. Autism was pretty prevalent within my previous team, my best developers happened to be somewhere on that spectrum. I suspect it was more on the end of what used to be called Asperger’s. Those individuals’ ability to apply logic and learn/focus deeply, hugely outweighed any social inhibitions or accommodations we needed to make.
My tactic for the last 5 or so years has been to appear to care a bit less. I overprepare to give myself confidence, but I’ve noticed a pattern - the more relaxed I appear, the more successful I am. Probably not helpful advice because it’s easier said than done, but I do suffer with high anxiety, and worrying more just causes me to worry more.
Being up-front about your communication style helps. I’ve had people start an interview by saying they’re nervous, and that’s visibly helped them to relax. I’ve had others tell me they can come across as blunt, and that’s good to know, and wasn’t off-putting.
Asking for the accommodation of getting out of the office would come across well to me. It says you know yourself, you’re confident enough to ask, and it’s only a request - they can say no (though that also serves as a good measure of how accommodating they will be).
Autism now a day has 3 levels which are used to describe how much support one needs afaik. level 1 is no or little support, which is where Aspergers is. Levels 2 and 3 require a lot of support, idk much about the levels tho.
I’ve noticed that too, when I don’t take it as seriously I’m also more relaxed and that makes me do better.
It’s really hard to not care about something important, I kinda feel like I’m going to be dead before the year ends if I don’t manage to get a job. It’s not true of course, but that’s how important it feels.I like to say I’m nervous too.
I’m not sure how to describe my communication style, I’ll have to read about that! _That’s comforting to hear, do you think I should ask before the interview, at the beginning, or both?
I wouldn’t be surprised if I fell into that first level, I’ve spent much of my life trying to decode what people actually mean.
It’s slightly risky asking for moderate accomodations, so I might not try it for the first time on a job I desperately wanted, and an agency or small place is more likely to agree than a big corporate. I’d ask them beforehand, I think it would be too awkward and unexpected if suggested during the actual interview.
I’d make it a casual request by email when the interview date is confirmed. E.g. “I sometimes find interviews stressful, would you be open to visiting a local cafe? I completely understand if that’s not possible”. It could be worded better, but I wouldn’t be put off by that. Coffee interviews are a thing, and I like them - I get to expense a nice coffee! I’d pick a quiet place with good seating.
However, unless you do find it hard to be in an office at all, I’d want to make it clear during the interview that I’m normally fine with offices, so they don’t get the wrong impression (that you’ll refuse to work in an office) and I also wouldn’t dwell on it. They’ve made an accomodation, so they’ll expect you to be more relaxed. If you’re still visibly stressed, that might be a red flag.
Anyway, I’m rambling now, but I do feel for you, it’s very stressful.
ooh yeah, it is a bit risky, and I don’t even know for sure if it will help with the stress. I think I would fit better in a smaller office where they have a bit more freedom.
I don’t mind offices in themselves, it’s more that interview thing that makes me super nervous.
Thank you so much for all the input! 💕
Have you analyzed what about job hunting specifically is giving you anxiety? EG is it a fear of rejection, something about compiling your life onto a CV, something else I can’t think of?
I don’t think any advice will be helpful unless you can identify what it is that is causing the anxiety.
I think it’s about how perfect and unique each application has to be. But there is only so much variation I can make.
I also think it’s about the bureaucracy itself, if something goes wrong I should have known. Always. because we don’t have civil service liability (as I understand it).
It’s like this whole thing gives me anxiety.So it sounds like maybe your issues are a) needing to challenge your mental rules about the effort that is/isn’t required for the application and b) accepting things that are outside of your control.
For your first issue, why does every application have to be perfect and unique? Yes the general recommendation is to tailor your resume/CV for each role, but if that is causing you so much stress you can’t even apply then don’t. Maybe it would be better to come up with a template you can use for each application. For instance if you are applying for are cashier, server, and front desk type roles maybe you just have a template for each of those roles that you can shoot off when you come across a job that you want to apply for. Don’t let perfection be the enemy of good.
For the second one, that’s tough. At the end of the day you really have to accept that you can’t predict everything. Sometimes things just don’t work out, and the best you can do is use it as a learning experience for the next time. If you can’t manage this on your own with your anxiety, then I second @fodderoh’s suggestion for seeking out a therapist.
I’ve been told multiple times things like:
- if there is a tiny misspelling or wrong grammar it would look like I don’t care for the job.
- the employee knows if the letter is unique, they know by how it’s written.
- the application must stand out from the crowd, nearly everyone looks identical and uninteresting.
Side note: For a while, I had a red panda drawn on my cv in a desperate attempt to be unique, I was quite proud and everyone said it was good. A few years later I think it’s ugly af and I even feel a bit of shame for using it. It feels like everyone lied about it looking good.
I hope the second one will calm down as I get used to being in this system and I know how it will be. I’m having a “start-up” meeting next week.
I wonder if some of your issue is that you are taking the standard advice beyond what is intended. I’m not sure if this will help or hurt with your anxiety issues, but you might want to look up the Ask a Manager blog. She has lots of great resources around developing a good resume, cover letter, and interview tips. Especially in terms of the examples she provides which could be helpful for you to process how to make yourself stand out in a good way.
Best of luck with your meeting next week!
Yeah probaly, I never know if someone means what they say or if they mean something more/else, wich people often do without realizing. I will take a look at her blog, thanks!
Can’t give you much career advice because not sure about industry and don’t know what could be happening in your interview.
For mental health, my advice is not put yourself down in spite of the rejections. Easier said than done I know. Humans want to be accepted and rejection deteriorates our self-confidence. It’s understandable your mental health will be affected.
With that said, anxiety and worry won’t help you ace these interviews rather it would make you feel powerless. Anxiety is like self-protection and we may try to protect ourselves from disappointment and disaster. What the main focus would be is to prepare for these interviews, and try not to expect you got the job. Don’t even think about what ifs. After the interview, move on to the next job application. Try to keep your mind busy. This mindset takes practice for people who give a shit basically.
I’m not here for carrer advice 🤷 But thanks for the through.
Anxiety is like killing oneself to not get killed.
It’s funny, when I’ve cared the least, I get the most responses.
What has worked for me and may or may not help you (also lived in Sweden) is that I write down questions to ask and I go through them multiple times. I also write down questions I think they will ask and then answer them in a very thoughtful way so I can later deliver them in a shorter version but till get a across what I want. I also bring the notebook with me so I can read them at the interview or take notes. Taking notes are great if they have a multiple stages kind of interviews.
Also I put myself in the mind set of “this interview is for me and them to get to know each other and get a feeling if this is for me”. That kinda removes a lot of the stress. I am there for me and my self and here to interview them as much as they are there to interview me. Also many first check the personality, my current job told me later that after the interview they ask everyone “would I like to hang out with this person”. Many good bosses have said “personality can’t or is hard to change and knowledge and experience is something you can easily obtain”.
So you should also try to see if the workplace you try to be hired as is even a nice place for you to be at. I have so far liked small companies the best with 20 to 50 employees.
I have been on the other side of the table to (not in the room but helped my coworkers and asked them questions about the interview afterwards) and a lot of them are just as nervous or unprepared as the one seeking the job.
My dad told me that he thinks like this when he is holding a meeting for higher ups “they all shit in the same bathroom as me today”. I don’t know if that helps but it is kinda the same things as I what I tried to say above. Good luck! :D
God morgon 😊
I often get this feeling that if I don’t get this job I’m gonna end up homeless and die. So it’s practically life or death. Which is not true of course.
I’ve tried the notebook thing before, (it didn’t go well as I didn’t write fast enough) but maybe I should give it a go again! The only times I’ve asked the interviewer questions back have been to requesting companies and they seem to have very little knowledge about the company they work for.
Maybe a part of my job hunting is bad luck? That and just nervousness/anxiety.That is so true but I have a really hard time relaxing at an interview, I think next time I might ask to have at least part of the interview in another setting than their office. I think the context might make me extra nervous. After my autism diagnosis, I’ve learned I’m probably very understimulated during interviews.
I’ll try to keep this in mind, I’m in a new chapter of my life, and things will be different.Smaller companies often seem to be more cozy than big ones, I agree.
I got a feeling that you might be a developer so I did check your other comments on Lemmy and saw that you’re working fullstack. I just graduated as a frontend dev at a ‘YH-utbildning’.Thank you for your insights!
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I do have a LinkedIn account and I already have about 70 contacts, and I try to stay active and comment when I see fit, all to get seen. I also do this thing where I visit the profile of a bunch of people in a company after sending an application in hopes of them seeing the connection, and small things like that.
Academic Work is on my list of websites to update, so I’ll give it some extra time to see if the same support is available. Thanks!
I’m not good at writing and listening at the same time 😅
I’m not in Stockholm unfortunately, I’m in a fairly small place called Arvika in Värmland. I think Oslo is a bit closer than Stockholm haha
I’m open to moving tho, but I’m not sure how to get a decent apartment in or close to Stockholm, I have a partner and two cats so I can’t take just anythingdeleted by creator
Thank you! I’ve build my ways over the years to keep track of everything 😅
We have like 3 companies with developers (Tickster is among them, kinda cool) but there are a lot more companies in Karlstad, it’s tiny compared to Stockholm but it’s still a fairly big city. A few years back I counted to around 40 companies of interest.
30min commuting distance isn’t bad at all! How is it to actually get an apartment? I’ve heard there are long waitinglists and you’ll rent in 3rd or event 4th or 5th hand. Sometimes short periods a time jumping from apartment to apartment?
I’m one of those who really like to go to the office, I like to go every day. I feel like I’m going to go crazy if I’m home to much 😆
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ooh I see, I never knew it was easier to buy, and it can’t be hard to sell in such a big city, right? So that won’t be a huge risk.
I should check if I can get a loan for an apartment and how that works.ooh I see, well if I move to Stockholm or Gothenburg it will probably be pretty fast as it’s for a job unless I can work from home the first month or so. I will look into HSB too, I have a list with housing queues too. I like lists…
Smart to trade apartments! You know a lot about this.
ahaha omg maybe that’s a bit too much even for me! It must be hard to concentrate in that environment!
This worked for me, maybe it can work for you: Try applying to places you’re not worried about losing a job at, and then working your way up to the job you want. I know it sounds silly, but try walmart or mcdonald’s for a little bit, keep reminding yourself it’s not that serious, it’s just money in your pocket. Hopefully that helps. Little steps still move you forward. I struggle with the same thing. Sending positive vibes.
It’s not silly, not at all.
I don’t think I can take jobs at those places tho, the tempo is way to high and the environment is way to overstimulating. A grocerystore could work if I get to do it in a slower pace and take breaks often and/or wear noicecanceling headphones.
Thank you tho <3
The way to alleviate anxiety is to willingly approach the thing that makes you anxious. Do it in small enough increments that you don’t overwhelm yourself.
As a person with autism (like me) you likely have lower than average working memory. You can expand your working memory by playing Follow That Frog on Lumosity for 60 minutes straight without taking a break.
People will say that Lumosity has no effect but the procedure I described is not the same one they used in the study that concluded Lumosity doesn’t work. Other studies which have used procedures similar to the one I described (60 mins, same game on repeat, no breaks) have shown efficacy.
Be warned that for two or three days after your working memory training session everything will be worse, not better. But once you recover, everything will be better.
Thanks for the advice, I do have a lower working memory, but Limosity costs money and that is something I don’t have right now.
I try to do a bit of job hunting with long breaks in between, taking small steps to make an application, sometimes it can take almost a week to send an application…Here you go, this one’s free: https://www.braingymmer.com/en/brain-games/n_back/play/
A word of warning: For me at least, 60 minutes of training makes my brain feel numb and my working memory is way worse for a couple of days. It feels a lot like being sleep deprived; it’s frustrating how difficult it is to think. Then after a few days it’s the opposite. Everything is easier. But there is that downtime to consider.
But I’ve found if I do a 20-minute session, I get a little boost in performance without any discernable downtime at all.
I highly recommend that at some point you do a 60-minute session, if only to feel the contrast in working memory before and after. But you have to be able to handle a couple days of feeling stupid and slow.
But if you’ve got a lot going on and no downtime, no days where you can afford to be lazy and slow and recover, the smaller sessions are probably better.
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I think we have staffing agencies, but I still need to do an application to them for each job and do interviews and so on.
I’m kind of in the same boat. In my 30’s. I feel like I spent half of my adult life looking for work instead of actually working.
I kind of hit a breaking point when I realized I was playing someone else’s (figurative) game; this person (figuratively) held all the cards and I lost each and every time.
So I stopped playing their game. I’ve found I’m very good at coming across as disarming. Once people meet me face-to-face (even over a video call or phone call) any preconceived notions they had go out the window and I have the opportunity to flip the power dynamic because I earn their trust quickly.
So recently I decided to build my own chess board (again, figuratively). I stopped applying for jobs. Instead, I focused on connecting with people first. So then I applied for work only as a housekeeping step once the employer/client and I are in agreement that I’ll be on board for a certain position or role. Obviously in 99% of cases organizations don’t like this. They want to funnel me into a system. Well, sucks for them. If they set aside their corporate ego and start a conversation I’d be able to help them.
I hope this perspective helps.
I’m a man, so I’m sure as a woman you’re going to come against a lot of backlash as far as appearing too aggressive. I’d actually see this as a good thing since it means you’re standing on your own and not taking s***t.
My advice, for what it’s worth…pay attention to what’s causing the anxiety. You have the power to change it, but (as a fellow neurodivergent) you might have to step on some toes to do so (correction–you will have to step on some toes). Keep steadying on!
Wow that sounds like a big realization.
Does “applied for work only as a housekeeping step” mean you applied to jobs because you’re forced to? We have the same in Sweden, if I want any income at all I have to apply to at least 6 jobs every month.I think my anxiety with this boils down to two things: How perfect and unique every application “has” to be and also the bureaucracy itself.
I really hate stepping on toes but I guess that’s part of life, more or less.
I have also recently realized how important networking is. I’m putting much more energy into trying to connect to people around me, adding them on LinkedIn, and stuff like that. During school we had a discord server for our class and I’m thinking about letting the classes “below” us in as well, (we were first) so we can create a network with a base on the same education. I think I’ll have to coordinate that with the school, I should send them a mail soon.
I also want to be a part of a kind of meetup thing were we host small events once or twice a month but I’ve never done something like that before and I don’t even know where to begin 😅
Those are typically the rules for unemployment/self-employment in the States. Since I haven’t been “officially” employed for well over 5 years, this isn’t the case for me. If work doesn’t come in, it doesn’t come in–I don’t have the trappings that come with having a job.
For me I was talking about when each job has a “process.” Step 1 is put in the job application. Not anymore (for me–if I had to fulfill a job app quota that would be another matter)! Step 1 would be initially contacting someone. Putting in the job app would just be for HR to make me official.
oooh I see. Now I understand! Thanks!
they all give the same default answer
Which is?
Knowing what you’ve been told before will help to make sure we don’t just give you the same advice you’ve already gotten
Regardless, have you considered finding a therapist? A professional may be more effective at helping you to work through this anxiety.
The default answer is shallow-ish answers on how to write a CV or personal letter or how to act during an interview. Even when I ask for more details they just repeat the same stuff.
It’s like googling “how to write a cv” or “how to act at an interview”.
I’ve been following their advice and working really hard but still only get summer jobs for a few months. They tell me how good my applications are and that I’m brilliant and kind and that I’m going to do soooo well. So why is it so goddamn hard to get a job…I have been thinking about seeing a therapist, we’ll see how my income will be as I might not be able to afford it.
I used to get crazy nervous during interviews. I’d forget the most basic things, my legs would literally shake when asked to do demos (very typical during interviews in my profession). I then had an opportunity to interview for a job I did not need and wasn’t even sure that I wanted. That was the most relaxed interviewing experience I have ever had and I’ve tried to recapture that ever since with various degrees of success.
Before the interview I psych myself up with mantras like “They are not interviewing you, you are interviewing them.” or “‘I’m not sure, I’ll have to look into that and get back to you’ or even ‘I don’t know’ is an acceptable answer.” “Relax, breathe, and be yourself. It’s only a conversation.” type of things.
That with some slow breathing exercises right before going in really helped. Maybe something similar would help you?
I’ve always hated interviews, especially as you say, when I want the job I can barely do the interview and when I don’t really care, it goes almost smooth as butter. Which is the opposite of what everyone tells you to do, kinda.
I’ve also realized I’ve probably misunderstood some questions, you know the classic “Where do you see yourself in x years?” previously I would always talk about getting a house and dogs and a nice garden… That is not what they meant but I never dared to ask.
I like to think that “misunderstanding” questions means they did not ask a clear questing and so any fault would fall on them, not me.
The example you gave is also a horrible question. Where do most people want to be in 10 years? Probably financially independent pursuing personal passions without managerial oversight. It’s as annoying a question to me as “Why do you want to work here?” The same reason anybody wants any job, because I have bills I need to pay. They should be telling me why I should want to work for them. Both of those questions are red flags for me. Maybe the person is just not good at interviewing, or maybe it’s a toxic work environment that doesn’t value their employees. An interview should be trying to sell the company is me as much as I am trying to sell myself to the company. But maybe that is just me.
The fault may fall on them but it becomes my problem as I miss a job opportunity.
I’m definitely going to ask for clarification on what they mean when asking so broad questions.It’s weird when an employee runs the interview as if this was a persons dream job. I don’t think many companies have that luxury.
FWIW, if you are carrying any anxiety around not being able to turn a summer job into a permanent position, I wouldn’t worry about that. In my experience it’s common for companies to dangle the possibility of a permanent role when in fact they know they have no intention of hiring someone permanently. They just say that because they know they won’t attract as many candidates if they’re honest. Or at least that’s how it is in the US; maybe it’s different where you are.
It doesn’t sound like you need help on the practical side of things. Although there are certainly basic questions you can ask. Are you getting interviews? If you are then that suggests your resume is good as that’s the resume’s job, to get you to an interview. If you’re not getting interviews then focus on your resume. A professional resume writer can really help as writing a good resume is a skill that not many people have the chance to develop. If you’re getting interviews but not getting offers, then it sounds like you need to focus on your interview skills. We can all offer generic advice that, as you say, you can find by googling. So again, maybe what you need is a professional. Someone who can see you in an interview setting and offer you constructive feedback.
Another suggestion might be to look for someone in your industry who could be a mentor. Someone who’s been where you’re at and can offer practical advice for finding a job in your industry. And it’s always good to develop relationships. How do you find a mentor? I would suggest starting on LinkedIn, assuming LinkedIn is used in your country, and finding someone who has the experience and background that fits what you are trying to do. Then just reach out to them and start a conversation. If they are local to you, offer to buy them lunch in exchange for the opportunity pick their brain. Be prepared that it might take reaching out to multiple people before someone responds, but if you can find someone who is willing to give you some of their time, you may find it’s really beneficial. Is there a professional society for your industry? If so, maybe reach out to them. They might have a mentorship program or at least be able to suggest someone in their organization who would be open to mentoring you.
Most importantly, just try to remember that this isn’t a reflection of your quality as a candidate or a person. Looking for a job sucks. It’s a rite of passage we all have to go through. You will get through this.
It’s the same in Sweden, summer jobs are just so the original workers can go on vacation.
I once had an interview where the interviewer where almost aggressively asking why I didn’t continue on every summer job I’ve had (like 3-4 summer jobs) I was really close to asking if she knew what a summer job is. That was weird.This time around I’ve applied for 9 jobs so far, no interviews but one at least said they’ll soon recruit for a role that suits me better.
I might get help from the bureaucracy by assigning me a person to help me with everything that has to do with getting a job. I’ve understood that they can come along for interviews as support.What can I ask a mentor?
There are a lot of professional societies (I’m a frontend dev) and I think I’m already in one, kind of. I had a trainee period at this office space with multiple tech companies. There are also meetups and stuff in the city next to mine, before the pandemic there were a lot of meetups and lunches there.I’m also part of a small-ish group of people who wants to start regular meetups again (maybe online? https://www.gather.town/ would be perfect) but we are in that stage where no one actually starts planning and doing all the stuff that needs to be done. I have been thinking about setting up a kind of preview in gather.town and asking people at the office space for help and/or advice, I know some of them work with this kind of thing daily.
“This too shall pass” is slowly becoming my new mantra.
It is so hard to not slowly rot from the inside and out when job hunting.It is hard to overstate the value of developing a good professional network. In 20+ years of working, I’ve only had to look for a job twice. My first one and once when my wife and I moved across the country to a city where I didn’t know anyone. All my other jobs (5 in total) came to me via people I knew. Who you know is often more important than what you know.
Those meetups sound like a great idea.
I’ve been building my network a lot these past 2-3 years. I’ve always had a really hard time building a network, partly because I’ve always felt so insecure about how to talk to people and keep a convo going and I also don’t really enjoy parties and other loud environments which most people seem to love.
But I think I’m finding my way, I can endure parties once in a while, even like them a little bit.
