It might be my youngness but people seem so fucking dense and stubborn these days. You got people who refuse to change no matter what to the point where they are fighting against their own kids. They are fighting for a world that discriminates against their own kids! If you’re old then you won’t be around for much longer so you should want a world that’s better for your kids even if it’s not something you personally want.
I guess I don’t want to believe that it’s always been this way but scrolling back through the last 100 years it seems to be.
Older folks are born into their version of a socially acceptable system. They have a child that doesn’t fit that mold. In their mind it would be easier for their child to stop being so “naive” if they would accept their old world view. What they don’t realize is that the world view has pivoted away and now they are the alienated one. Should they protect their own children, yes. Does social pressure work that way, no.
There’s also an element of “sunk cost” with some people – it’s not always the case that homophobes are closeted themselves, but many times the worst bigots are those who’ve invested years of their life into denying who they are. It’s a pretty scary proposition to face the fact in your old age that you’ve been living half the life you should’ve been, that the conservative society you’ve been defending so vehemently has robbed you day by day.
In those cases I feel nearly as much pity as frustration.
Why do those commiting the violence do it? What’s the root cause that doesn’t just lead to questions if “why that”? Why is queer people existing “dishonorable”??? ~Strawberry
Am Indian, I’ll try and explain this crap mindset in the Indian context.
Why is queer people existing “dishonorable”???
Queer people are considered disgusting + a Strong Community sense to the point of toxicity.
Firstly, there’s a lack of understanding:
Queerness is viewed as a choice, not an identity. A heteronormative environment + lack of education causes people to think that queer people are being quirky or rebelling, refusing to “listen to reason”.
Secondly, Abrahamic religious and Colonial Influence:
Ancient India was kinda chill with queer people. Transexual people were ok, being able to live freely and own property, with some places even revered the trans people in their religion. Gay peeps, however, were thought to be unnatural for opposing the traditional family structure, but were punished lightly with small fines for indulging in homosexuality.
The whole stigma around Queerness started when Portugese settlors aggressivley punishing sodomy as early as the early 1500s in Goa. A few decades later, Mughals conquered their way into India and punished homosexuality with lashes/whippings/stonings. British Raj then took over almost all of India, and codified Homosexuality as a crime all over the country, and then labelled trans people as a “criminal tribe” and persecuted them.
A common point of discussion in Indian circles is the still-prevelant post-colonial starvation mindset in so many people of India - pursuing European/American beauty standards, disregard of own local culture, blind belief in western cultural concepts, racial imposter syndrome, validation from white people, sexual repression etc. This irrational distaste for queer people is a part of this mindset that has been left-behind and ingrained in the many cultures of India.
Overall, Queerness is considered dishonorable as it is seen as a form of “extreme rebellion” in the “most repulsive of ways”.
Why do those commiting the violence do it?
India has always been a communal country. Even at it’s peak, it was an alliance/cease-fire of hundreds of princely states and kingdoms ruled by communities. There was also the caste system that became more and more rigid and oppressive as time went on.
Anyhoo, you and your family was entirely dependant on staying by your community (community could refer to your caste, your tribe, your village, or your large family). It was a difficult task to move to a new community. Any sin or crime that you did also brought shame upon your community, and it was upto your community to correct the issue themselves and restore their honor - resulting in a heirarchical, community-priorities-first system.
While archaic, this mindset is prevelant in modern India - especially since your community is your primary support system, and there is a vast difference in socio-economic status between tight-knit and loosely-knit communities.
Those resorting to violence think that Queer people have commited a disgusting crime in a rebellious manner, all the while discarding everything that was done for them, ultimately bringing extreme shame to the family and the community. Therefore, they avenge and restore their honor by punishing the criminals for indulging in sin.
It’s a toxic af dogshit mentality, especially propogated by those in power within the communities, using hate to keep their authority in line. But it is coming down slowly but steadily thankfully due to alleviation of poverty, diversification, healing from post-colonial mindset, and lesser dependance on your community for survival.
“This like a sickness must be cut” kind of thing or is this really just shame? If homosexual child just moved away would they be happier?
another indian here: probably not. given that indian parents are obsessed with their social status since most people of that generation were raised in a traumatic environment as well (that was also obsessed with the rest of the world’s perception of them, that took away individual intellectual/emotional/identity agency), so they will likely keep seething on:
- being “abandoned” by their children
- while seething on the very existence of their children or obsessed with working on “damage control” with their society
Some may disagree, but the root is very much shame, imo.
A lot of the parents of gay peeps I know were pretty chill about queerness, until their kid turned out to be one and they were shamed by their community. One of them started crying immediately when their kid came out and screamed about what society would say, but then adjusted and decided to prioritise their kid after a few hours.
I usually find Homophobia to be instilled through religion or hate media - In that sense There isn’t really any systemic homophobia through non-abrahamic religions, which make up most of the country. That said, there has been a recent trend of few online personalities (few religious ones among them) copying western right wingers and denouncing trans people - which I find worrisome.
Most of the homophobia I have encountered I’m people here has usually been instilled through movies or online communities or through interactions where gay is used as an insult.
A homosexual kid who moves away will probably still be targeted, sadly. It’s the “rebellion” that’s the issue - there are many cases of honor-obsessed weirdos that have targeted their family peeps who went against the norm in different ways.
That does explain a fair bit, though I feel like it also leads to quite a few more questions. I’m not sure it’s quite healthy to try to dive much deeper. ~Strawberry
