I don’t blame them. Ukraine needs to take the war to Russia to win.
As an American, I support Ukraine droning inside Russia. Fuck up their power plants, oil production, and bases! I believe most Americans would agree that in war, this tactic is fair game.
Power plants are not valid military targets though. No one should be attacking those and it’s always wrong to do so.
Edit: I posted this comment and immediately went to bed. After waking up and looking at responses, I’m absolutely disgusted with people justifying and approving war crimes. Attacking civilian infrastructure like power plants is a WAR CRIME and that’s why it’s a huge deal that Russia has been attacking power plants. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.
Edit 2: alright, time for links since people seem unconvinced. Both the ICC and the UN consider the attacks by Russia on Ukrainian civilian infrastructure to be war crimes. If it’s wrong for Russia to do, it’s wrong for everyone to do.
Sorry, Russia already lost the right to say Ukraine shouldn’t be hitting their power plants.
An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. If Russia started using VX gas, would it be acceptable for Ukraine to start using Sarin? Absolutely fucking not. There is never a legitimate excuse for a war crime.
There is never a legitimate excuse for a war crime.
There’s one actually. Survival.
If the situation gets to a point where your existence on the planet becomes problematic, you take the gloves off, you fight back with everything you can, especially if you’re protecting those that you love.
Having said that, fuck war, and fuck war crimes. Wish the UN could resolve this crap before it gets to where we are now.
Power plants areUkraine is not a valid military target though. No one should be attackingthoseit and it’s always wrong to do so.FTFY
Well yes, but starting a war suddenly and without declaration isn’t a war crime.
Well yes, butstarting a warsuddenly and without declaration isn’tis awarcrime.FTFY as well.
Look, I’m about as anti-war as they come. But in the capitalist neoliberal rules-based order, war happens constantly all over the world and the best we can do is enforce the provisions of the Geneva Convention. No good will come from equating war generally with war crimes right now. There will be a point where we can call war a crime against humanity, but the Overton window isn’t there yet.
Why are you framing it as if capitalism and neoliberalism are causing war? Isn’t this one of the most peaceful times in human history?
It’s not that they’re the cause of all war, but neoliberal capitalism is the root of all modern conflicts.
Maybe. But destroying the Russian dictatorship is a moral obligation for everyone in the free world.
All Russian infrastructure and assets are valid targets. Both inside and outside of Russia.
Attacking civilian infrastructure like power plants is a WAR CRIME and that’s why it’s a huge deal that Russia has been attacking power plants. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. All moral obligations are equal. That means doing unethical and immoral actions in pursuit of an ethical and moral goal means you are no longer fighting a good fight.
Power plants are valid military targets.
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/when-are-attacks-civilian-infrastructure-war-crimes-2022-12-16/
Claiming that they’re typically valid targets is very different from “sometimes they are, in extreme circumstances”.
Power plants are not valid military targets though.
Yes apples are not oranges, so why are you trying to change the subject?
AFAIK there is not a single example of Ukraine attacking power plants in Russia.
An oil depot or refinery is NOT a powerplant. Russia has more than enough oil to serve their population, but maybe they can’t serve the military 100% too, if Russia chooses to prioritize their illegal military invasion over their own population, that’s a Russian problem. As long as Russia prioritize oil for their military, oil is a valid military target.I’m not trying to change the subject. The OP tried to slip a war crime target in with valid military targets, and I wanted to set the record straight.
Buddy, I can smell the straw from here. Ukraine isn’t attacking Russia’s critical infrastructure out of some need for retribution. If a grizzly bear attacks you, you hit that thing in any sensitive spot you can reach until it backs off. Otherwise you’re dead. That’s the situation Ukraine has been in from the start. They’ve been persistently outgunned and outmanned. The only way to get Russia to stop is to hit them where it hurts.
I’m not making some kind of strawman argument. I’m correcting the OP, because attacking civilian infrastructure is a war crime. If Russia starts using chemical weapons, should Ukraine start too? If you have any sense of ethics, you’d say no.
Congratulations, you’ve successfully justified a war crime.
Citation needed
Civilian infrastructure can in fact a valid target if it assist the military. Electricity generation is used to maintain many military systems, including telecommunications, logistics, lighting, radar systems, and all sorts of manufacturing capability that assists the military.
So fucking what? Attacking civilian power infrastructure isn’t the solution to fighting an enemy. Attack the military comms, logistics, lighting, radar, and manufacturing instead. Then everyone knows the attack is absolutely justified.
At least Ukraine is not doing it in the middle of winter, unlike Russia.
It’s morally wrong to do so. At the end of the day, like every single other war in the human history sadly , the right side is the winning one, be It bombing power plants, hospitals or houses.
Power plants are not valid military targets though
Sure they are. You’d make a terrible military leader.
You’d make a terrible military leader.
And you’d end up in the Hague.
There have been no such calls for Ukraine to stop attacking Russia. The article is behind a paywall, and there are no corroborating stories from any credible news sites. According to the same article on yahoo news, the White House claimed its due to oil prices. The US gets its oil from Canada, Mexico, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, and Brazil. The headline has no merit.
Why would the USA expect Ukraine to listen to them when Israel gets more aid & regularly lies to the USA with 0 repercussions?
Israel doesn’t get more aid. Unless you consider total aid since 1946 adjusted for inflation, then yes, but that wouldn’t make sense. Israel gets 3.3 billion a year. Since February 2022, the United States has allocated $113.4 billion in emergency funding to support Ukraine.
‘They don’t get more money unless you count all the money’
Unless you count all the aid from before Ukraine was even an independent country?
Just because they have been supported by the US for a longer time.
I am not a fan of sending them anything, but that doesnt mean that they get more than ukraine this year and for the past 5-10 years, which is what you should compare.
Israel gets more aid
Israel probably hasn’t gotten more aid in the last 2 years but overall they might have. Also, assuming this is even true, why would Ukraine listen to the US since they have abandoned support of Ukraine?
They are fighting in the fucking defensive war. What fucking logic is that? They should even cross the Russian border if needed.
What warnings? Last I heard the very deliberate language was that the US “Did not encourage” strikes inside Russian territory. Has that language escalated?
Can’t read the article due to the torrent of pop ups unfortunately because I’m very interested to know the basis of the headline.
The article is paywalled anyway.
The basis for the title is that Ukraine is still hitting targets in Russia. Honestly, I don’t believe the US was serious about their comments opposing those strikes. US oil companies will just make more profits after all.
I believe the argument was that it would raise global oil prices but that wouldn’t make sense unless Russia is doing a better job of bypassing sanctions than we know about. There have been rumblings of Russia using intermediate countries to move oil and other resources, so there is that.
And note the source. It’s basically an industry rag.
If anything, it’s an obligatory, “no… please… don’t…” to maintain plausible deniability.
last section of the document
It just seems super vague to me. It says that they are ignoring the advice to call off the strikes, but there’s nothing in there from an official or anything about what exactly they are being advised. Maybe I’m splitting hairs here, but it doesn’t seem definitive at all as to what’s being communicated.
It is vague and it needs to be because at best this is second hand account of what it was said.
Just put
archive.ph/in front of the URL.
Every time I see headlines like these I remember that Ukraine denied the US told them to stop hitting oil plants in Russia, but people kept repeating the story.
Anyway…
Ukrainian forces launched a drone attack on Kardymovo, Smolensk Oblast tonight, successfully hitting a pair of Russian oil depots.
Both of the complexes are heavily burning.
US: please stop hitting logistic targets inside Russia!!!
Meanwhile
Russia: targets Ukrainian hospitals, power stations, gas depots, telecom infrastructure, emergency aid infrastructure, schools, parks, apartment buildings, restaurants, etc etc etc.
Ukraine should only consider the comments of countries sending money and weapons.
When the US starts to send money again, then the US can comment.
Didn’t they just approve an aid package this morning?
In addition to the 80 billion they’ve already sent?
It went through the house, it is not yet approved. And for 8 months now, Ukraine has gotten no support from the US.
What, really? August was the last aid package?
Pretty much, the repubs have been holding aid hostage like a bunch of petulant children. MTG and Johnson leading the way, sucking on that orange tanned dong.
Dang, I’ve been traveling since the end of last year, I hadn’t realized they’d been f****** with the aid for so long. Dicks.
Yep, I see them as traitors. Regan is rolling in his grave right now.
No doubt on the treason charges.
They literally sent in forged elector certificates to try to trick NARA and pence into falsely certifying trump.
How about this: we’re allowed to tell them how to run their war as long as we supply them an uninterrupted pipeline of the shit they need to win it the way they’re telling us to.
Oh wait: we already tried that, except we not only didn’t even do it well, but also didn’t hold up our end of the bargain because of fucking fascist far-right politicians. So we kinda fucked that one up, didn’t we?
I hate that it took this long but the aid package cleared the house and is expected to clear the Senate. This just happened yesterday https://www.npr.org/2024/04/21/1246170238/ukraine-military-assistance-house-vote-mike-johnson-volodymr-zelenskyy
Oh I know. All I’m saying is that any semblance of justification for exerting strategic oversight of their war is gone, considering the political fuckery we just pulled in the last 6 months that had very real and negative consequences for Ukraine.
Oh yeah that’s absolutely fair! I mainly threw this comment up because it’s super fresh news so I was hoping to help spread it a bit.
Stop posting paywalled articles
And why shouldn’t they?
Removed by mod
Good. Fuck russia.
i want to see an FPV video of putin being chased by a drone and the benny hill music playing
As they should, I hope they somehow take out Putin
US to Israel: is ok bb don’t worry big daddy will take care of those deadly deadly dwones for you, here have another million dollars and Google AI
US to Ukraine: pls don’t drone Russia :(
Punish Russia for invading your country and if it hurts their economy perhaps that will deter other countries from pulling the same crap.
The article is paywalled but I’m guessing the warnings are because of the energy economics involved. If an effective counter-offensive drives up oil prices then maybe that will be the (admittedly likely painful) push the world needs to finally swap to other forms of energy. I’m aware it might hurt, but I think it’s long overdue regardless of wars and the decades of stalling for economic reasons has done a lot of harm to the world.
