• supersquirrel@sopuli.xyz
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    149
    ·
    edit-2
    8 months ago

    In a U.S. context, it is actually really simple. Racism and the age old practice of othering types of people by associating them with a drug (cocaine = rich and white, crack = poor, black and dangerous). That’s it, the full answer is of course a lot more complicated but in the end it is exactly still this dumb and cruel.

    politicians across the political divide spent much of the 20th century using marijuana as a means of dividing America. By painting the drug as a scourge from south of the border to a “jazz drug” to the corruptive intoxicant of choice for beatniks and hippies, marijuana as a drug and the laws that sought to control it played on some of America’s worst tendencies around race, ethnicity, civil disobedience, and otherness.

    https://www.brookings.edu/articles/marijuanas-racist-history-shows-the-need-for-comprehensive-drug-reform/

    I actually think examining the rise of crack in the US and how it was used as a political wedge and xenophobic tool of fear mongering helps explain why marijuana is illegal in the US the easiest, because the forces and structures are the same for crack being highly illegal as they are for marijuana, just much less thinly veiled and dialed up to 11.

    • bartolomeo@suppo.fi
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      59
      ·
      8 months ago

      Right, because alcohol is the white man’s drug. Plain and simple.

      They made alcohol illegal for a while but it turned out to be too onerous for the white people so it was legalized again. Marijuana laws have caused massive damage to minority communities, so they remain in place.

      • supersquirrel@sopuli.xyz
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        20
        ·
        8 months ago

        True after all alcohol is white enough of a drug that you can come from a run smuggling family and still become President and nobody bats an eye.

      • Zitronensaft@feddit.de
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        edit-2
        8 months ago

        Marijuana was banned to target minorities, but alcohol prohibition mostly was repealed not because white people like alcohol (white people instituted prohibition in the first place, after all), but because alcohol is stupidly easy to make from a wide variety of substances so most cultures around the world produce some kind of alcohol with their local crops. You can use pretty much anything sugary: fruit (wine), honey (mead), and grains like rice and wheat (sake & beer). It is really hard to ban a substance when half the foods in our diet can be turned into that substance if you let it sit in a jar or bucket in your closet for a few weeks.

        Prohibition was repealed primarily because it was a futile effort and with alcohol being banned, very strong distilled spirits were the economical way to discreetly transport and serve alcohol since it is easier to hide a few bottles of liquor from authorities searching your truck or business than to hide large barrels of low ABV drinks like humans had been brewing and drinking for millennia. It is also a lot easier for people to drink themselves sick with distilled drinks, so ultimately it was decided that it was safer to make alcohol legal and regulated instead of having it still plentiful, but getting people sicker and funding criminal empires. It’s a lot easier to ban one plant than to ban every food source with sugar in it, but the marijuana prohibition has clearly led to many of the same problems as alcohol prohibition did.

        There are still people who would love to ban alcohol if they feasibly could. Many places in the US still have local alcohol bans, I currently have to travel two counties away to legally purchase liquor and one county away from home to purchase beer or wine. Prohibition only ended on a federal level.

    • EldritchFeminity
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      40
      ·
      8 months ago

      People from Nixon’s cabinet have straight up said that they made both illegal and started the “War on Drugs” as justification so that they could lock up opposition leaders in both the black and hippie communities.

  • _haha_oh_wow_@sh.itjust.works
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    101
    ·
    8 months ago

    They tried to make it illegal and the results were disastrous, one could argue the same for marijuana but the campaign to keep it illegal was much more successful.

    • MisterD@lemmy.ca
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      36
      ·
      8 months ago

      That’s because cannabis was more popular with black people in the 70s. The racists used the cannabis laws against blacks because it gave them a bonner

    • Maeve@kbin.social
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      22
      ·
      edit-2
      8 months ago

      Bootleggers and alcohol could deposit their money in bank accounts. Legal grow-ops* can not.

      *I fail to see how autocorrect can “correct” to completely different words in no way similar.

        • Maeve@kbin.social
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          8 months ago

          Ooh, no wonder it fails. Tyvm, I have been paying more attention to my posts, but autocorrect corrected, sometimes when the word is still in my vision field, often outside it (possibly a dodgy connection), but when I re-correct words several times and it still automatically incorrect it is especially annoying.

  • Snot Flickerman
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    58
    ·
    8 months ago

    Well, there was this one time when we tried out the whole “making alcohol illegal” thing and it worked out about as well as the current “war on drugs.” Just like drugs are winning, alcohol won.

    The first anti-drug laws weren’t really on the books until Nixon, who definitely used them as a way to pin down and criminalize parts of society he deemed unworthy.

    July 1971 was when Drug Prohibition started. Before that, technically everything was legal.

  • pjwestin@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    47
    ·
    8 months ago

    Going to try to give you a clear, concise summary, since a lot of these answers are either too specific or blatantly unhelpful.

    First, alcohol has been used by humans since before recorded history. It was probably the first drug we ever used, and barley was even used as a currency in ancient Mesopotamia. Alcohol is ingrained in almost every human society, and banning it is always difficult. The United States actually made alcohol illegal between 1920 and 1933, and it was an unmitigated disaster.

    Second, Marijuana wasn’t always illegal in the United States. To give you a very oversimplified summary, the newspaper magnate William Randolph Hearst ran a racist, xenophobic campaign to vilify Marijuana in the early '30s. He saw hemp crops as a threat to his holdings in the lumber and paper industry, so he had his newspapers run exaggerated or false stories about crime and violence related to Marijuana use, usually center around Mexicans or black Americans. The movie Reefer Madness is a great example of this kind of propaganda. Marijuana was eventually made illegal in 1937, and as the War on Drugs ramped up over the decades, enforcement and penalties for Marijuana crimes only got worse.

    Anyway, there’s a ton more that could be said about Prohibition, pre-Hurst Marijuana use, and the War on Drugs, but those are the broad strokes. Hope that helps.

    • 3volver@lemmy.worldOP
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      19
      ·
      8 months ago

      So would it be fair to say that keeping marijuana illegal is a major part of institutional racism?

    • webghost0101@sopuli.xyz
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      16
      ·
      8 months ago

      Agree on your second point but i doubt your first is relevant.

      Its true what you say about alcohol but cannabis too was cultivated before recorded history, estimated to have started 12000 years ago at the same time we figured out farming in general.

      For most of human history it was a well known medicinal plant (in asia)

      It did exist in Europe and America but i knowledge about drugs just wasn’t all that common while brewed alcohol drinks, which where much healthier then dirty unboiled water was common everywhere. I bet if someone passed you a joint in those times you’d just assume its a weird brand of Tobacco and because thc and cbd balance was on a more natural level you wouldn’t have gotten very high from it.

      • pjwestin@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        16
        ·
        8 months ago

        Yes, but Marijuana wasn’t nearly as widespread as alcohol. Cannabis crops didn’t start to spread globally until the 12 century, so tons of cultures developed without it. Meanwhile, alcohol isn’t a crop, it’s an organic compound that can be fermented from tons of crops across the globe. Aside from the North American tribes, pretty much every human civilization developed a fermentation process.

      • pjwestin@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        3
        ·
        8 months ago

        Thanks! I wanted to give OP a broad understanding without going into an overwhelming amount of detail, but boy did it take a lot of restraint to not to go into a three paragraph rant on drug scheduling and mandatory minimums.

      • mojofrododojo@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        8
        ·
        8 months ago

        sure they had something to do with it, there’s no example of US fuckery that doesn’t involve industrial protection of some kind.

        I’d wager also that tobacco and alcohol fought marijuana as hard if not harder than the GOV’s position a lone.

        • toynbee@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          4
          ·
          8 months ago

          Fair enough. My history books always blamed the cotton industry, but it does make sense that others would be involved. Thanks for taking the time to answer!

  • magic_lobster_party@kbin.run
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    45
    ·
    8 months ago

    This is a non-US perspective, but my take is this:

    Alcohol production has a long and rich history. Many cultures, in particular western, have their own relationships to alcohol. The development of different alcohol production processes tells a lot about the history of a culture.

    Belgian monks with their beer brewing styles. Scotch whiskey. French wine yards. Even Japanese with their sake.

    Remove wine from France, and we will have another French Revolution with guillotines again. It’s difficult to remove something that’s so heavily ingrained in the culture without public outrage. Alcohol is part of the identity.

    Few cultures have marijuana as part of their identity, hence it’s easier to ban.

    • Caveman@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      4
      ·
      8 months ago

      In Soviet Russia and Tsarist Russia vodka was a big source of state revenue. During the Bolshevik revolution they cut down on alcohol since they thought it wasn’t good for the population as a whole. It got restarted later by using the same factories and changed the bottles to include a red star on it.

  • stoly@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    43
    ·
    8 months ago

    They wanted an excuse to lock up people of color and disrupt communities. With the civil rights act, they couldn’t go old school. So they invented the “war” on drugs specifically because blacks and Latinos were stereotyped as being cannabis smokers. This is all about racism.

  • Etterra@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    42
    ·
    8 months ago

    Part of it also is that it’s entrenched in virtually all human societies and history. There’s even archeological evidence to support the theory that humans only started settling down to slow them to make more and better beer, count the beer, protect the beer, and tax the beer. They even made bread for the explicit purpose of making beer out of it.

  • hungryphrog
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    37
    ·
    8 months ago

    Unlike marijuana, alcohol has been an important part of (the western) society for thousands of years. And the last time we tried banning it, it didn’t go too well.

    • zik@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      6
      ·
      edit-2
      8 months ago

      And politicians drink alcohol so they’re not exactly lining up to ban it.

  • BarqsHasBite@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    33
    ·
    edit-2
    8 months ago

    They tried prohibition, didn’t work.

    The way I see it: Alcohol is an older drug, it was engrained in society. But the new drug marijuana could be cracked down on. Also because it was hippies that smoked marijuana, but everyone drank alcohol.

    *Lock Stock had a scene. “Want a tug on that? [joint]”. Reply: “No I don’t want any of that horrible shit. Can we go get drunk now?”

  • gencha@feddit.de
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    28
    ·
    8 months ago

    A bit of perspective: During the prohibition in the USA, both cocaine and heroin were sold legally over the counter.

    Most illegal drugs today are perfectly legal when a pharmaceutical company produces it and you are purchasing it through channels where the elite gets paid.

  • cley_faye@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    23
    ·
    8 months ago

    I’d say for two reasons. First, laws are written by a bunch of old people (at least in the head) that love the stuff. Second, full prohibition does not work anyway.