In the past few elections, voting feels more like a hostage situation than exercising my right to making a “choice”. This country is absolutely fucked if Trump is elected again.
Easier said than done I know but if Trump wins my wife and I would strongly consider emigrating to another country. There’s only so much insanity one can take before needlessly going down with the ship. And if the calculus is that that my kids will have better prospects elsewhere, then so be it.
You’re assuming that 1st world countries will have us.
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Fascism is on the rise globally. If enough decent people leave the US, we will fall into a fascist regime, and it will be the beginning of World War Three, with the US leading the equivalent of the Axis powers. No place in the world will be safe for you or your children. That’s the hard, honest truth.
Agreed. We need to stay, and we need to fight to change the system from the inside. We can still prevent disaster at this stage.
With my partner, friends, and I being “degenerates” and likely the first group the fascists genocide… nope, see ya, I’m out. We already are experiencing the low-tide effects of genocide and while people aren’t in droves killing us yet, there are state allowed murders seemingly popping up and medical genocides creeping into the states. It’s only a matter of time and there is effectively nothing I can do, so for the lives of my family, friends, and I, we will be doing whatever it takes to get out before it really starts.
You must do what you feel is right, of course. I disagree that it is inevitable, I disagree that there is nothing you can do, and as I said above, I doubt that, should it happen, anybody will be safe, anywhere; but I wish you and yours safety and peace, wherever you go.
Good idea. I think it’s worth doing some research to find out where you might be able to go.
The problem is that without good people to stop them, evil people taking charge of the USA would radically change the entire world.
It’s not easy, but most of us have to stay. Maybe all of us…
I’ll be in my 3rdW country eating popcorn
Yes. That’s the end game of our type of voting system. You get two options and both suck.
We will get no progress until we get something like ranked choice voting.
Obligatory CGP Grey video about the inevitability of a 2-party system
That’s my favorite. I’ve watched it more than a few times
Which we won’t get, because it doesn’t benefit the right people
If we can at least get 2 dems in a row in office we can begin to claw the Overton window back from the fascist side. It’d be a start at least
This is the part too may people fail to understand. The same reason Trump wasn’t able to completely dismantle democracy in 4 years is why Dems can’t check every progressive box in 4 years. The system is designed to require a decade or more of electoral success to enact real change. Otherwise you’d just have an unsustainable political yoyo.
Even then, Trump winning one time has completely fucked the Supreme Court, and US democracy will unequivocally not survive another Trump pick. A ton of allegedly left leaning people here seem suspiciously enthusiastic about that prospect.
Wtf? Civil Rights?
That’s far too naive. All that will do is entrench liberalism, which is extremely weak against fascism rising.
Bless your heart.❤️
It always has been.
We might be tempted to think that our Democratic heritage automatically protects us from such threats. This is a misguided reflex. In fact, the precedent set by the founders demand that we examine history to understand the deep sources of tyranny and consider the proper responses to it. - On Tyranny by Timothy Snyder (Chapter 1, Page 13)
I’ll have to read that book. Thanks for sharing.
I wonder if Haley is staying in the race betting that Trump won’t be able to run in November
That has been my assumption as well.
I think she would help Biden if she stayed in the race as an independent
Betting on Trump’s last hamburder
We need to focus on smaller winnable races. Unfortunately we can’t shortcut our way into the presidential candidates we want, we need to replace the establishment and build a foundation of allies to support it. I know a lot of us are in conservative areas where you can’t realistically get new candidates elected locally, but you can still volunteer for races in other parts of the country. If we can shift politics in the house and Senate the presidency will follow. It’s hard work but it’s possible.
When’s the last time that hasn’t been the case? 1964?
When has a Russian puppet been the GOP front runner? This is bigger than politics.
Always has been that way
Is there a real plan to shore up our “democracy” if the Democrats win this election? What is Biden going to do next term that he didn’t do this term?
I feel like people are so fixated on Trump that they can’t see past him. Trump is a giant, clown-shaped piece of shit-- absolutely. How does the opposing party fail at politics so hard that someone like Trump ever even had a shot?
I feel like people are so fixated on Trump that they can’t see past him.
Well yeah, because if he wins there won’t be anything past him for much of the country.
OK? What if Biden wins, is my question. Is the Democrat value-proposition nothing more than “periodic intervals of slightly slower slide into total fascism”?
So, what’s your suggestion then?
Fuck man, I’ve got a lot I guess. Like the kind of shit the Repubs do, but the Dems claim powerlessness to do. Trump has shown that the rule of law only matters if there is some consequence to breaking it. So break the law. Wield the power. Especially if you genuinely feel like this will be the last ever election. Fucking declare an emergency, arrest Trump and everyone else involved in J6. Send the military to reassert power over the national border in Texas. Break up media monopolies, and nationalize telecoms. Why the fuck would you risk losing an election to a criminal gang who want to end democracy?
All those possibilities pretty much went out the window when the Democrats nominated Biden. Even if Biden was as left as we would like him to be, he is a technocrat who sees the norms as vital to maintaining the legitimacy of government.
I don’t even necessarily disagree that maintaining legitimacy is vital, but I’d put representing the people over donors a notch higher than maintaining norms.
I don’t actually think they were ever possibilities. Even if Bernie had won, his own party would have trampled over the repubs in order to impeach him first lol.
I don’t think so. The more people actually hear Bernie speak, the more they like him. He wouldn’t be hiding from the public like Biden, he would be leading rallies on the Whitehouse lawn. If Bernie had access to the bully pulpit, impeaching him would be political suicide.
Your suggestions are very tempting, I must say. We don’t want to sleepwalk into fascism. It could be 1930s Germany all over again.
Trump and many of his gang were arrested already, though, and are facing trial. So far, the verdicts have shown that the justice system is still somewhat functional. I don’t think it makes sense to flip the table as long as the justice system continues to hold Trump and his ilk accountable. Taking it to the next level and declaring an emergency would accomplish what, exactly? He has already been charged, so would the point of the emergency declaration be to skip the trial phase and go straight to hanging? Essentially it means outlawing Trumpism, which means purging the GOP, which means civil war. No one wants civil war as long as there is a chance to beat Trump constitutionally.
We had a situation in Canada in the 90s where our second largest province had a very serious vote on whether to separate from Canada. It would have literally ended the country as we know it. It was certainly tempting to arrest the leaders for treason to save the country. However, that would certainly have led to either a civil war or the Quebecois equivalent of the IRA in Canada. So, we persevered through the vote and the remainers won by about 1%, as I recall. We saved the country by the skin of our teeth, but through legitimate democratic means, and so the result was respected.
Yeah, purge them. As absolutely awful as a civil war would be, I say that it is preferable to risk it now than cordially handing over the reins of power to these clowns from hell. For one, civil war is by no means guaranteed. For all our big talk, most Americans will go along with ‘the program’, whether it’s purges of fascists or purges of minorities. I’m afraid we have to choose one, and I much prefer the former.
I wish I could confidently disagree with you, but I can’t.
The supreme Court is slow-rolling determining whether or not a president is liable for criminal activity in office until after the election. If they determine now, then either trump gets held accountable, or Biden has immunity from crimes in office, and can plainly jail or order a hit on trump and a good chunk of Congress.
Obviously though, the president is not immune from the consequences of crimes committed while in the office.
I just don’t understand how you can believe that the supreme court can’t or won’t just ignore precedent.
A this point, I think Judge Judy has more integrity than the SC. They are gonna do what they were put there to do, give cover for republicans to undermine human rights.
Yes, that’s correct. Slower slide means more of a chance to fix it.
Fix it how? Like what’s the plan? Is there a plan?
Democracy cannot be permanently “fixed”, it can only be preserved via endless education and participation.
Literally the only way to “fix” democracy is to participate in it.
OK? How does that happen? Is there a Dem plan to drive democratic engagement, because they obviously haven’t done a good job of it yet. It seems like fear of Repubs is the main selling point to voting Dem, and it isn’t exactly a thrilling strategy.
More people voted for Biden in the 2020 election than any other candidate in American history by a pretty significant margin, voter turnout in both midterms and general elections are at their highest points in 100 years, obviously something is working
How does that happen?
It happens when I go canvas and vote, not complain about it on the internet like you.
No there is a lesser chance. The worse the conditions get for the more support fascism gets.
If Trump does not win this election, an even worse person will win the next one
This, so much, this, I feel like I’m taking crazy pills.
The Democrats are ideologically incapable of dealing with fascism, they will not address the root causes, America will have an authoritarian in office within 8 years.
Quite frankly if America can’t withstand trump’s decrepit, corrupt, senile version of fascism then we’re just going to fall to what ever ghoul the Republicans summon next.
But what can you really do? Not voting is beneficial to the open christo fascists, and the only person who has any real world shot at winning an election, for some mind melting reason Joe Biden. The same Joe Biden, who despite his kinda actually not terrible first term, is currently funding a genocide as the wold watches. It’s a shit choice, but this problem isnt going to be fixed this cycle. It’s like punching the clock.
Biden isn’t the only one who could win, and seems to be worse off than a generic dem in swing States, by a long shot. They’re choosing the candidate again, like they did with Hillary, from the ranks of the least popular people in the US. They’re shooting themselves and blaming the left and Muslims in MI already.
I agree with you completely. I think the DNC is going to do what they want, and it will take time and deliberate action to change them. This cycle is going to be a Trump/Biden election. I don’t see a way around it. Here’s to 2026 and 2028 for making progress with elections. In the meantime we still have to donate and support with our time.
I’ll be volunteering for Biden, because that’s the best cause I believe I can support during this election. Doesn’t mean I’m super pumped on him being the candidate.
But what can you really do?
Not give into cynicism and participate in the democratic process? Democracy isn’t something that you can set and forget, it requires constant attention and participation or it breaks. We are where we’re at because the GOP and big corporations have been carefully engineering widespread burnout in a large percentage of the working class population.
Oh for sure. I’m just saying the DNC is going to put up Biden, no matter what, so that’s our choice this round. Action can be taken for 2028, but be real… They’re not going to change horses.
I agree that it’s frustrating that Democrats use shitty Republicans as an excuse to be just a tiny bit less shitty. However, it’s getting really annoying that you can’t criticize Trump without someone chiming in with “whadabout Biden?!” and you can’t criticize Biden without getting a “whadabout Trump?!”
They’re both fucking awful. It’s a waste of time criticizing Trump because everybody knows who he is, and the people that like him don’t give a fuck what he does. They aren’t listening to your criticism. I’m don’t think Dem leadership really wants to actually help working class people, but they definitely don’t have much reason to start when people keep voting for the most “conservative” ones out of fear from the monsters which have mysteriously found a way to represent the other half of voters.
You know they don’t . Their strategy was, is, and will continue to be: “The other side is worse”.
Yep, and it is a shit strategy.
Just ask about DC statehood and the Dems’ inability to enfranchise over a million US citizens.
As soon as you scratch this problem, you discover how shallow and unserious the party is in “protecting democracy”.
I agree, I’m just trying to get others to see how little “resistance” the Dems pose to the more naked fascism of the Repubs.
I think the case of DC Statehood is an obvious example. Whether we’re talking about Kennedy, Clinton, or Obama, we’re talking about a party that’s deliberately disenfranchised over a million people on their watch.
The more he loses the less likely he’ll be to win, plus he’s old as hell and not aging gracefully. Rebuking Trumpism is shoring up democracy.
Didn’t we rebuke Trumpism last election? I’m asking why the fuck is Trumpism alternating as the most popular political position for the American electorate. This is an indictment of the political acumen of the Democratic party.
We did but facism will never go away. Before they slunk away but now fascists can connect with each other online. Instead of it being a few people that happen to meet up and connect now they can seek each other out. It’s the same reason that racism has made such a dramatic resurgence. It will literally require eternal vigilance.
Is this how it is in all countries? An eternal choice between “whole fascism” and “skim fascism”?
It’s further ahead in the US but coming elsewhere. Even in parliamentary countries fascism is coming back although since they are not first past the post not as pronounced. As long as the internet is around and there’s no repurcissions for belonging to those groups they will be around.
I am aware. It’s a failure of liberal democracy that fascists are allowed any political quarter.
Because Trump is great for me fundraising and keeping party bigwigs at the trough
I don’t think there really can be a plan. Like what would you want Biden to do to shore up democracy?
One of the inescapable, fundamental, bedrock concepts of democracy is that people will not vote for a corrupt, criminal, authoritarian, self serving demagogue.
If a society can’t achieve that basic state then they can not be a democracy.
Honestly, I suspect that the best thing Biden can do is to “grey rock” the American people and hope that Trump self combusts, which seems to be what’s happening.
That said, that’s just the best Biden can do. The dems need an actual leader that can inspire the american people to see a better version of themselves.
Did you mean to have the word “not” in your second paragraph? Because people absolutely vote for leaders like that all the time lol.
Oh I think I see. I agree that we’re not a real democracy.
Sometimes in life there is such a thing that is called: “Maybe there is no Good Vs. Bad just assholes all around”. Good luck with that
MUST WATCH: Bernie Sanders - Why People Vote For Trump
He’s 100% right on this.
Man, it’s crazy how similar that sounds to exactly what Biden has been saying all along:
And I’ve said many times before: I believe we’re at an inflection point in this country — one of those moments where the decisions we’re about to make can change — literally change the trajectory of our nation for years and possibly decades to come.
Each inflection point in this nation’s history represents a fundamental choice. I believe that America, at this moment, is facing such a choice. And the choice is this: Are we going to continue with an economy where the overwhelming share of the benefits go to big corporations and the very wealthy? Or are we going to take this moment right now to set this country on a new path — one that invests in this nation; creates real, sustained economic growth; and that benefits everyone, including working people and middle-class folks?
That’s something we haven’t realized in this country for decades.
Here’s the simple truth. For a long time, this economy has worked great for those at the very top, while ordinary, hardworking Americans — the people who built this country — have been basically cut out of the deal.
And I’ve said this from the time I announced I was going to run: I believe this is a moment of potentially great change. This is our moment to deal working people back into the economy. This is our moment to prove to the American people that their government works for them, not just for the big corporations and those at the very top.
Yet an off-the-cuff remark about asking wealthy people to accept slightly higher taxes is somehow all his breathless detractors want to pretend has ever existed.
Actions speak louder than words. Biden locked in Trump’s $2T tax cuts for the rich and corporations, bringing the corporate tax rate from 35% to 21%. Never mind the open loopholes they exploit to pay virtually nothing anyway. Then, Biden claims he wants to bump up the corporate tax rate to 28%, but can’t, for “reasons.”
What is this halfway corpo-fascist stance? How are we going to pay for that?! By cutting social programs meant to support the working class. Biden is full of shit on this issue, open your eyes.
Biden locked in Trump’s $2T tax cuts for the rich and corporations, bringing the corporate tax rate from 35% to 21%.
Nuance glossed over for the sake of partisan shit-flinging:
Then, Biden claims he wants to bump up the corporate tax rate to 28%, but can’t, for “reasons.”
Yes, reasons. Amazing how Bernie would have had to deal with exactly those same “reasons”, isn’t it?
Biden is full of shit on this issue, open your eyes.
If only any of these convenient roadblocks and excuses could have stopped him from repeatedly funding and supporting genocide.
You know it’s congress that writes and approves the national budget, which is how funding gets to Israel?
Biden is overriding Congress to send them hundreds of millions in additional child killing bombs.
Let me be clear - Bernie isn’t in office right now. If he were, he’d have likely come up with some way to deal with these two.
It’s really too bad that Mr Biden couldn’t arrange an audience with President Manchin during this time to figure something out, since Manchin is calling all the shots. At least they got some things accomplished together. Any and all applicable environmental regs be damned.
Let me be clear - Bernie isn’t in office right now. If he were, he’d have likely come up with some way to deal with these two.
LMFAO. I don’t even know where to start responding to that fanciful poppycock.
It’s really too bad that Mr Biden couldn’t arrange an audience with President Manchin during this time to figure something out, since Manchin is calling all the shots.
A government of multiple representatives from different places who must come to a decision as a group, THE HORROR!!!
At least they got some things accomplished together. Any and all applicable environmental regs be damned.
Politician negotiates. More at 11.
fanciful poppycock
lol yeah you’re right, Bernie is too nice to have done anything here either, who am I kidding. Successfully navigating these kind of hurdles is not some impossible feat however, despite what the Biden admin and MSNBC might have you think. Consider how FDR dealt with the Dixiecrats. Could Biden have done more along those lines?
multiple representatives
Since when are voters represented in Washington? If you’re not a donor, you’ve been left out to dry since the 1970s, full stop. The middle class has been eradicated in this country, if it ever even existed to begin with, and Biden has been a central complicit figure in making that happen.
negotiates
Negotiates for what? More drilling, more oil and gas subsidies. And a massive handout for Manchin, who if you believe the pathetic Dem excuses, was the primary reason we couldn’t get anything done after electing Dems into a majority. Again, I call bullshit. Biden doesn’t want to do anything to help the people, and it shows in his actions. idgaf what he reads from his speech writers, I care about what he does.
he’d have likely come up with some way to deal with these two
And everyone would get a pony.
Bernie isn’t in office right now.
Bernie is in office. He is the Chair of the Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor and Pensions. And he would not be in this position if the Democratic party had not heard what he is saying and agreed to demand government to perform better for the working class.
Man, it’s crazy how similar that sounds to exactly what Biden has been saying all along:
I get your frustration, but this is a good thing. Bernie having the same message only strengthens it, and can convince people that won’t listen to Biden.
We don’t have the luxury of picking allies. If holding my tongue gets us a reluctant ally, I’ll take it. None of us have to like each other. We just need to remember that fascism is the ultimate evil. We may bicker like dwarves and elves, but when the orcs appear, we need to fall lockstep shoulder to shoulder immediately.
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Fuck it. I’ll write in Bernie. /s
Sanders is one of the only politicians unworthy of the guillotine.
Bernie is a Genocide defender and wants to keep funding israel even now.
Yes he wants to continue the 3 billion per year and does not want to sanction israel.
These are Bernies’s own words he said in the video I linked above.
I was proud to vote for Bernie in the 2016 and 2020 primaries, but I bit the bullet and phone banked for Biden even though he was far from my first choice. There’s way too much at stake here.
Yes. Better Biden than Trump but Bernie would have been better.
I volunteered for Sanders campaign but didn’t do anything for Biden. He didn’t earn my vote. Democracy at work.
I honestly get where you are coming from. I protest voted green party in 2016 thinking Hillary had the election in the bag - and felt terrible afterwards. Voted for Biden in 2020 even though he was low on my list. Without seriously overhauling our voting process to ranked choice or STAR voting, not voting for one of the major party candidates just helps the other.
Blame the candidate that works for the people. Not voting for Biden helps Trump? I guess not voting for Trump helps Biden too then?
If you’re a conservative voter and you refuse to vote for Trump for one reason or another then it does help Biden. The problem is that conservatives are rallying behind Trump pretty much regardless of what he does, while progressives are infighting about whether to vote for Biden because of his stance with Israel.
Not voting for the lesser of two evils helps the greater evil, whoever you think that might be in this election
100 million voters don’t vote in the US.
Maybe I’m a naive idealist, but, in the age of social media I actually tend to disagree. If there’s ever a time that a 3rd party could be plausible, it’s now. Everyone hates both sides, social media and the internet gives anyone a platform.
The notion that you cannot vote for anyone else is and has been pedaled by both sides for too long. It’s tired and false.
I don’t see either party being willing to pass something that in-essence, weakens their stance, so voting reform is likely dead.
Idk, this country is fucked. Like I can even easily go counter myself as I type this. You’re probably right. I just don’t want to believe it. I’ll likely be voting democrat anyway, simply cause my soul knows you’re right. Fuck.
I’m all for having choices outside of our de-facto two party system, but the reality is that the more progressive candidates we have, the more it splits the progressive vote. Our adversaries know this, as part of the Russian election interference involved social media posts encouraging progressives to vote for Green Party candidate Jill Stein. Stein claims she had no involvement, but there have been accusations that she has ties to Russia, particularly stemming from this gala she attended. A senate investigation found no wrongdoing on her part, however.
there is no evidence she was aware. this is slander.
Which part of my comment could be considered slander? I thought I was presenting the facts as they are, and even mentioned that she denied any knowledge of the Russian election interference done to promote her campaign and split the progressive vote.
you said there is evidence she was aware. that’s not true.
Depends on where you are, I voted sanders, but since my area and state went Democrat it didn’t really matter. It’s not like it’s entirely popular vote.
Who did you vote for? Or did you just not vote?
I voted down ballot Dem except POTUS which I voted third party. I’m in California.
Jill Scott?
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If trump wins and America can’t defeat his senile version of fascism, then it’s already on the death bed waiting for the next republican to take power…
trump is the best authoritarian we’re going to get, he’s easy mode, the republicans will get someone worse, someone who has the ability to think beyond his next shit.
It’s not going to get better only worse…
how were republicans before trump? how was Bush? (i literally have no idea because I was 7 at the time)
Awful, but less transparently corrupt than Trump. And they didn’t have the chutzpah to lie about who won an election.
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Didn’t know Bush tried to overthrow the government after he lost
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lol
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trump tried to stage a coup and overthrow the us government…
if 9/11 had happened during trump instead of W, he would’ve dropped nukes.
and here’s him saying as much:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/at-911-memorial-trump-vows-to-strike-back-with-more-than-nuclear-power-if-us-is-attacked-again/2019/09/11/60b12fec-d49e-11e9-9343-40db57cf6abd_story.html
Nixon, Reagan, Bush Sr., Bush Jr., and Trump are all links in the same chain of shit. If any of them were avoided we’d be much better off as a nation.
Citizens United needs to be removed.
The massive polarisation in the media needs to be addressed and the outright blatant lies told by the Rightwing goons needs to be legally stopped. ‘Free Speech’ my ass. They need to be labelled ‘opinion’ or ‘entertainment’ or something other than pretending to be ‘fair’ or ‘news’.
I think an “equal air time” law that requires that corrections to misinformation and disinformation be provided at the same scope, scale and duration as the offending material. Since Fox news backed down on their dominion case, they ought to reprint every article, rehost every show and re-run every ribbon and banner on all of their platforms for next 3 years, admitting that they lied, linking sources to proof of their lies, and advising everyone that 2020 had no meaningful amounts of voter fraud on either side. Failure to do so should be fined at a rate of 1000 dollars per second of missed remediation time.
Unfortunately the law would’ve never applied to fox news, as it was broadcast only and cable was exempt. But even so nowadays so much of the information sphere is online, through Facebook, Twitter and the thousand different right wing blog news sites that you aren’t really going to be able to stop anything. The American system very dependent on the two parties having a bipartisan consensus. But after a few decades of the right wing media sphere whipping the base into frenzy after frenzy the ‘true believers’ are the ones in government now and the idea of compromise is done for.
That all breaks down though when you can point to foreign actors stirring the pot. Republicans are really letting other countries decide their fate at this point
The massive polarisation in the media needs to be addressed and the outright blatant lies told by the Rightwing goons needs to be legally stopped. ‘Free Speech’ my ass. They need to be labelled ‘opinion’ or ‘entertainment’ or something other than pretending to be ‘fair’ or ‘news’.
Replace “rightwing goons” with “leftwing commies” and this is exactly Trump’s plan lmao. Do you not see how that is a problem?
What left wing media empire has spread lies so much as to be sued for hundreds of millions of dollars? This is not a two sides issue.
For Trump Left wing commies = literally anyone who disagrees with him
I’m not pushing it as a two sides issue. I haven’t seen anyone in the Democratic establishment advocating for media censorship like this. I’m talking about you, as an individual. You’re not a side.
I’m not advocating ‘censorship’. I’m advocating for standards of truth in news media. Unless it’s laid out as the facts, it’s opinion.
This used to be the case until Murdoch and the GOP changed the law to allow bullshit.
If you’re talking about the fairness doctrine, it required broadcast networks to devote equal time to both sides of controversial issues. It never applied to opinion shows, which are like 2/3rds of the content on 24 hour cable news networks, and it never applied to cable. You could bring it back tomorrow and it wouldn’t change anything about Fox News.
There is not, nor has there ever been, a legal ‘standard of truth’ for news media. There shouldn’t be. If you trust the government to decide what is true and punish the media for reporting otherwise, what’s to stop trump or the next trump from weaponizing that? That is why the first amendment exists.
Funny how many comments just went poof! Gone! So this place is basically /r/politics now? Mods smoking out every opinion they don’t like?
Funny thing is, the deleted comments were from liberals, not raging conservatives spewing bile and lies. Must not have passed the purity test.
Funny how many comments just went poof!
Are they in the mod log? The link is at the bottom of each page.
Lmao, I gave it a quick glance and saw the most recent person I blocked for being an angry asshole get unblocked and then reblocked from an instance within a minute
The one who’s banned for the next 19 years?
Lol yep, thats the guy
Is there a way to filter by post? It’s hard to find anything when it’s everything from all communities.
When you click on the “Modlog” link it’ll show you the filtering options that are available.
Or maybe the mods are actually moderating by cutting out the off-topic arguments and BS threads that don’t contribute anything to the overall discourse of the discussion.
I can imagine most of the comments were 14yo’s and trolls saying GeNoCiDe JoE hUrRrR
So this place is basically /r/politics now?
👨🚀🔫👨🚀
We don’t have much of a democracy as things stand considering the average person doesn’t influence policy lol. If all hope is on Biden clutching it out then we better brace for the end. Dems had 4 years to plan ahead.
We did plan ahead, I’m sorry you don’t like what we planned but you were also fully welcome to participate in the process the entire time.
If becoming less popular than when you beat Trump and enabling genocide is planning ahead, then I guess it is over.
Sorry to hear you’re giving up but I guess that makes it easier for me.
Damn you suck at planning lmao
Well, our guy is president and yours is not.
This.
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Ah both sides BS again.
… which, if you really feel that way, is exactly why we need to implement more democratic and efficient voting systems, like ranked choice (instant runoff),, STAR, approval, etc.
As American political systems are today, the only viable candidates to win the presidency in 2024 are Joe Biden (a well-meaning, old white man) and Donald Trump (old white narcissistic Putin-loving vindictive criminal rapist who doesn’t care for democracy and can’t remember his wife’s name).
I’ll be voting for Biden because even if you really believe he’s “evil”, he’s certainly the far lesser evil than Trump (for the reasons listed above and then some).
I’m not going to hold it against Biden for being old and white. All for moving toward equality but I’d be willing to give anyone a chance if they have some ideas (like an actual platform) and some drive to make some positive change. It’s more the fact that Biden seems slightly demented and acts like a prototypical old white man stereotype that worries me. Of course I’m not even going to talk about the alternative though, the choice should be simple here given the options but it’s a depressing choice either way.
Also correct.
What fuckin crazypants logic is this
“Well what I have is way far away from what I want, so what’s the point in choosing the clearly better alternative”
As applied to this particular election, this is like saying “I want to climb this mountain, but the hill in front of me isn’t where I want to get to, it’s like thousands of feet lower than the summit, so what’s the difference if I jump into this ravine filled with lava instead”
Also what happened to that video call where you offered to prove that you were who you say you are? Not a right-wing shill posting anti-Biden things to discourage Democrats from voting?
I decided you’re obsessed with me and I don’t want to doxx myself by giving you my contact info. Go through my reddit history if you want. I’m not a right winger. Same username as here
Would you say you’re obsessed with Biden, and how it’s important for people not to vote for him in this election? You post about him way more than I engage with your stuff. And yes, I still think it’s sus for a couple of different reasons. That’s not obsessive, any more than noting from time to time “yo you should be aware, that dude at the bus stop seems like he’s acting weird” is obsessing over that dude at the bus stop.
Not doing anything to “prove” who you are seems perfectly reasonable, of course. You were the one who suggested that somewhat odd idea, and then fell silent when I said, sure sounds good, I am curious. But by all means, you do you, keep your privacy, that seems better.
Also, saying you can’t be a shill because you had an account on Reddit is like saying “I can’t have sand on me, I live at the beach.”
Ah yes, I’m such a right wing shill that I posted an article titled… ‘It will be the end of democracy’: Bernie Sanders on what happens if Trump wins – and how to stop him
Everybody should be critical of our politicians. Hold their feet to the fire. Always.
Critical is one thing – I actually was convinced recently by Ezra Klein’s editorial and Jon Stewart’s episode that there are significant reasons to try to put someone other than Biden up in the general election. Why is that? Because they made serious, sensible arguments and seemed genuinely concerned about the future of the country. They didn’t say grossly irresponsible things like that there’s no difference between Trump and Biden, or give reasons people shouldn’t vote in the election. They actually expressed the urgency of what’s going to happen in this election as a key reason why it’s important to take problems with Biden seriously.
If you were posting things coming at it from that perspective, I’d have no reason to be suspicious of your motives in posting this stuff.
Ah yes, I’m such a right wing shill that I posted an article titled
Yes, your MO seems to be a certain percent generically left-wing things, sort of the minimum required to maintain a fig-leaf of general political interest outside of your clear agenda, combined with a heavy percentage of just pure single-issue anti-Biden propaganda. Your most recent 10 articles show the ratio at 30%/70%. The fact that this is one of the 30% doesn’t excuse the 70%, to me.
I do try to post negative Trump articles too but then have to delete them as it’s a duplicate post already. The sub, or whatever they’re called, already has the anti-Trump articles on lock.
Here’s the reality - it’s been 171 years since we’ve last seen a third party take presidency.
I repeat - 171 years! If you’re still foolish to think that this year is the year or foolish then to think that 2020 and 2016 were the years for the Independent Party. All that you’re doing is just wasting effort and time going out in the voter’s booth and voting Independent just for a self-pat on the back.
Who’s arguing about the viability of third-party candidates? Your comment is a non sequitur.
Did you just charge in to try and sound smart by using a big word and asking a dumb question at the same time?
The fuck out of here, moron.
Which of those words would you consider “smart sounding” or “big”?
“All of them”
- That idiot
I’ll add that the only, and i’ll say it again, ONLY, viable path to 3rd party success in this country is through more democratic voting system reforms. (ranked-choice, STAR, approval, etc.)
Anyone who doesn’t understand this is either ignorant, stupid, or playing dumb for sophistry and manipulation’s sake.
I like the insinuation that the US is an actual “democracy” lmao
If we do an election and the wrong candidate wins, the democracy goes away.
So you can’t vote for the wrong candidate.
And also, you can’t vote for a third-party candidate.
And also, you can’t abstain from voting.
So, really, you have exactly one choice that you’re allowed to make.
Democracy!
but “allowed” is not accurate. you’re allowed to do any of those things. it’s just that all of them blow, and one blows less.
oof. perception +20
And also, you can’t abstain from voting.
[Citation required.]
We could actually improve our democracy by making voting mandatory.
We’d get a better representation of how all of the voting-age population feels.
Then maybe we can get politicians that support more thorough voting system reform.
We could actually improve our democracy by making voting mandatory.
In Australia, we’ve tried that. I have to say, that I personally, am not a fan.
The consequences of forcing politically ignorant or complacent people to vote is that they end up deciding the result of the election, and you just get skilled used car salesmen as your politicians. They know all the buzzwords and three word slogans to keep the politically apathetic tuned in.
we get that now tho…
They know all the buzzwords and three word slogans to keep the politically apathetic tuned in
And how is that different from what we have?
you’re right, now that i think about it—as long as gerrymandering gets banned at the same time. because guess who doesn’t want most folks to vote? the R party. you know, the one that wants to rule, not govern.
We could actually improve our democracy by making voting mandatory.
Brazil has mandatory voting, and its just as rife with corruption and fascism as anywhere else. I like the idea of compulsory enfranchisment simply because it operates as a counterweight to disenfranchisement. A state with a legal duty to vote is one with a legal obligation to fully implement elections infrastructure (at least, in theory).
But when it comes to the quality of candidates? Well… Bolsonaro was not a paragon of civic virtue.
We could actually improve our democracy by making voting mandatory.
Over the decades the discussion has been had about if voting should be mandatory or not.
It always came down to it should not be, because people would just do bullshit voting if forced to do so, they wouldn’t put the effort or the ethics in to vote responsibly.
Also, unless you live in a specific set of states, your vote is effectively meaningless!
There’s downticket stuff and that shouldn’t be ignored.
At the same time, we get meager media coverage of the downticket races so its very difficult to discern who is good and who sucks unless you’ve got an in-group to turn to. I like to pretend I’m active in Dem circles, but I’ll be damned if I know who to vote for on my state senate seat much less all the judiciary races. The one guy I liked to primary out the loathsome Liz Fletcher turned out to be a serial sexual harasser.
But yeah, pretending my vote in Texas will swing the national election is absurd. And then trying to tie that national election vote back to “Oh no, democracy is ending if you don’t vote for my guy!” is even fucking dumber.
Oklahoma has very limited down ticket options. I get to choose whether I want to vote for people who call people like me “filth” or well meaning people that’ll burn out and move away after they lose.
i’d say it’s largely, tho not completely, a de facto oligarchy now.
It never was, or was ever meant to be, an actual “democracy”. Imperial core countries’ political systems only serve to protect capital and imperialism, with a thin veneer of “democracy” to discourage uprising and two parties to divide the working class.
It is for anything besides president. That’s the sad part.
I know you mrrrkns absolutely hate it when furriners’ talk about your politics, but it saddens me to see a fellow democracy in such a state. Both these guys are demented old f&@ks! These are the best candidates your democratic system can give you? Really? I know we Aussies have plenty to cringe about, but jeez!
Yeah. It’s super frustrating living in the United States and having these two old fucks as the voters choice. To be clear, I’m voting Biden, because he and the Democrats are the lesser of the evils by a pretty large margin, but they both fucking suck.
Why settle for the lesser evil? Cthulhu 2024.
I’m all in on spaghettification of the government. Gotta be better than this bullshit.
Trump is a result of the systems failure to address underlying problems. The underlying problems can all be associated with a single common source: Inflation.
Governments printing money at a rate greater than value is created in the economy, nets you inflation - and that has been going on since around the mid 90’s in a very real way, and even before that. We can more or less call this the “NeoLiberal Era” if you like. Around the 90’s is when things get bad - and to more or less cover it up, the CPI was manipulated (read: Fixed like you would fix a wrestling match) to make inflation look acceptable - in reality: Replace Steak for Ground beef in the CPI shopping cart and tell people it’s still relevant.
End of the 90’s you get the ,Com bubble and crash. 2008 Market Crash - and you get “Quantitative Easing” being sold as a fix - when all it is is, PRINTING MONEY. Then during the pandemic a huge push to shut down the economy (largely impacting the lowest wage earners the hardest just FYI) requiring the government to provide stimulus, coupled with grands, loans, and such to businesses in hopes they would keep people employed (hint: They didn’t). And so we have had a series of the most NeoLiberal thing possible: Publicize the risk, privatize the profits, and screw the poor over in the process.
The fix: Reduce the Money Supply. Drive to a negative inflation number. But the kicker is? The wealthiest hedge funds, realestate investors, and what not would basically go belly up from that type of move. And why? Because if inflation lowers - the debts accrued cost more to maintain the interest on, than they can gain with inflation flipping for real profit over time. Once you reduce the money supply by at this point about 2/3eds - we can move to aiming for a 0% inflation number. The government should at that point be focused on reducing debt one way or another.
The real problem for the US Economy is, if any action is taken to reduce the debt - it will be a clear signal that the US economy is not gaining value, and that the Dollar Value is currently overvalued. And that could in a very real way cause a spiral. And a fear of the Spiral is making the long term problem worse as it’s kicked down the road.
By the way: You can take the US out of this and replace just about any western nation into the mix and find the same problem. Actually, China really fits in here. And oh boy a correction is coming and it’s going to be ugly.
Bernie is right about why people vote for Trump, he’s wrong that it will be the end of democracy. America has never had a democracy, it’s had an electoral college with gerrymandering and 2 senators per state.
Well whatever we have is still better than a dictatorship.
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- they are = they’re
- they’re too busy
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Communication is a two way street. You aren’t wrong about listeners making an effort to look past mistakes, but you’ll also find readers will appreciate you more if you take the time to use clear language.
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God you’re insufferable.
⚡Smites you⚡
On Quora there was “suggest edits” - we need it everywhere. Commenting is an ugly way to correct grammar. Suggesting edits allowed all sorts of improvements impossible to explain in a comment. Then the visionaries got fired and Quora went to shit.
