I’m voting green because if democracy is ‘on the ballot’ then I figure it’s the choice I actually believe in and not just the slightly lesser of two evils. And so recently I feel targeted by democrats and its getting kind of weird and I was wondering if any other greens are experiencing the same thing in the US. I’m very open about my party preference and intentions for 2024.
I think of it as follows: Five of us in a car and we’re sorting things out democratically. Two of us, including the driver, think the ride would be way more fun if the driver goy blackout drunk and wore a blindfold. Two of us want to go to Mcdonald’s. You don’t want to go to McDonalds and suggest a salad bar.
Well, the votes are tied and the driver and his buddy win by default and we all die in a car crash.
Yes, a salad was better than McDonalds OR a car crash but goddamn, reality is also a thing and doesn’t care about what we want.
The time to push for significant change was the primaries and our fellow progressives didn’t show up to vote. Voting a third party now just feels “if I don’t get my way, I’m taking my ball and going home!”
100% this. Until FPTP voting is done away with a vote for a liberal 3rd party is basically a vote for republicans. CGP Grey did a really easy to understand video about it.
Being pro environment is great. The national Green party in the US is kind of fucked though.
I voted Green in 2012 because a) Barack Obama was given a 99% chance of winning my state very close to the election and b) I thought I could “send a message” to the Democratic Party that they should move further left.
I did so with full knowledge that not only was Jill Stein in no position to win a single elector and that in addition she was a horrible candidate who would be literally the worst president in the entire history of the United States (this was before Trump, but I’m still going to go with that for the purposes of this discussion). I did so knowing it was a protest vote while claiming it wasn’t a protest vote but a vote of conscience.
Jill Stein and GPUSA are a bunch of corrupt fucks who only run because they take in republicans money because they regularly scrape off a 3-4% of the otherwise democratic vote, which in some districts and state can swing the entire election.
So o cast my GP vote, the total GP vote was completely in line with historical trends, Obama won my state and the presidency (thankfully), and no signal was sent, except that the republicans could rely on that.
I’m sure the Dems do something similar with the libertarian vote. I’ve even been tempted to donate (now that I have some money to donate) to libertarian candidates in elections where scraping off a point or two could tip things towards the D (which I confess is something I favor, being part of Team Rainbow). I haven’t dug into it, but I wouldn’t be surprised if that racist son of a Bircher Ron Paul didn’t help hand the election to Clinton. If so, fucking yay. I don’t love Bill, but we sure as fuck didn’t need more Ronald Reaganing.
I think everyone should treat people advocating for a GPUSA or other protest vote as a Republican stalking horse, period. Whether they’re intentionally doing it or naively turning themselves into a broadcast node doesn’t matter - I’m not judging. I’m just saying that they’re effectively campaigning for a fascist, and should be treated as one.
It’s the democrats who are behaving increasingly like fascists. They make things horrible for the underprivileged making all sorts of promises and then giving everything to redwashing corporations. They are cultivating a hyper-selfish mainstream culture based on digital clout. They are pseudocollectivist. They are not all the way in that direction but I see the trend line. It’s getting aggressive and increasingly top-down.
Trump literally said he wants to be a dictator. You’re either being purposely obtuse or have ulterior motives with this post.
How does that make the democrats not fascists? You think I’m saying the MAGA people aren’t fascist? They are definitely fascist. I already said I’m green. This thing you’re saying about Jill Stein somehow taking republican money is new information to me and I don’t know what to make of it. But it doesn’t change what’s simultaneously going on with the democrats.
EDIT : I see it was the other person who was referring to Jill Stein taking republican money.
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
It is brainwash to think that the democratic party is actually in favor of the underprivileged. To me it seems like a transitional organization towards a very real fascism, a way to take horseshoe politics and twist them around until what you have is a straightforward ultraconservative party. Marxism-Leninism is basically conservative in every instance and what they have now is Marxism-Leninism Lite, so there’s not much more to go. The Soviet Union was conservative. True leftism is always libertarian or libertarian-leaning.
“Scratch a liberal, and a fascist bleeds”.
Congrats on giving Republicans one extra vote.
This is how I feel and how I handle it: I truly believe that allowing Trump to regain power will be the end of American democracy, and that the likely successor forms of government will be repressive, vindicative, dehumanizing and marginalizing of everyone they consider “other” - and so far, “other” is everyone who isn’t a older, white, upper-class, Christian male. [Not that you won’t be attacked if you’re an older white upper class Christian male, but if you’re young, or not white, or poor, or non Christian, or not male, they’re going to feel free to attack you.] And getting the Democrats into the White House isn’t overly helpful if the Republicans control Congress - something that’s particularly important when the Supreme Court is so conservative.
So that’s my starting position: I need liberals (or at least non-conservatives) in every post I can vote for. How can I influence things while still maintaining those goals?
Well, every party micro-analyzes every piece of data they can get their hands on, and every election report is analyzed for advantages and weaknesses. So I publicly contribute to Green causes and liberal candidates. I vote for Green, or DSA, or other liberal candidates in the primaries. The Democrats are harvesting my data and I want them to be fucking worried about me and my vote. I want them to look at me and say, “This person is talking to other people and maybe changing opinions, so we need to pay attention to the things that move this person.”
And I don’t do that just subtly, I do it openly: I write letters and emails and make phone calls to my representatives at all levels of government. I tell them when I’m against a position, and why. I tell them when I support a position, and why (so many people only contact when they’re against, but it’s just as important to contact when you’re for!). I tell them when I approve of a piece of legislation but wish it went further. There’s some old estimate that every letter represents 1000 other people who feel the same way but who didn’t write in, and I try to make sure our positions are represented in the feedback they get. On and off, I’ll talk about my concerns with friends and family. I’ll also write letters for friends or family, if they want me to, give them a pre-addressed stamped envelope - but they have to sign and mail the letter. Probably only half of them actually go out, but that’s another theoretical-1000-people for each one that does.
Like I said, I’ll vote “extra liberal” in the primaries. If my liberal candidate of choice isn’t an option, I’ll write them in. But when it comes to the general elections, right now, it’s too important to keep the Republicans out as much as possible. So I’ll hold my nose and vote Democratic then, then continue trying to influence the thoughts and policies of those that get into office.
You should write to one of the Green Party’s Congresspeople about it. Even state congresspeople can do a lot to help with issues like this, they’re the foundation a nation-wide party is built on after all.
You could, if they had any. But they just run pretend campaigns for president funded by conservatives and make no effort to actually build up a party. Andrew Yang’s barely defined Forward Party has more representation than they do.
There are races all over the country that are basically uncontested. You’d think they’d have been able to find at least one deep blue district where the incumbent was out of step with their electorate, but nope. Gotta save that money for another wasteful presidential run.
Let’s see, an honest question posted about voting Green nets you a current score of -8. Yeah I’d say you’re justified in feeling attacked.
I’m Canadian and don’t know much about the US Greens, but I can tell you that any party that would run Joe Biden twice is not a party I’d ever vote for, especially now given his miserable response to literal genocide.
The Democrats can do this because they think they have your vote by default. It’s not like you’re going to vote Republican, right?
But here’s the thing: you don’t get progress that way. The Democrats are never going to run someone who doesn’t support Israel unequivocally or isn’t fixated on helping capitalism destroy the planet so long as they think they can count on you voting “not Republican” every time. Yes, the Republicans are worse, but contrary to appearances, they’re on the same team, presenting the illusion of choice so long as that choice favours as little actual change for the rich as possible.
So yeah, fuck the Democrats, and definitely fuck Joe Biden and any other “let the world burn” candidate. Vote green if you want, or stay home if you like. Just make it clear to Democrats (and their apologists in this thread) that your vote isn’t a given. That’s how you drag them kicking and screaming toward progress.
Downvotes are caused by being very much off topic
Unfortunately the US is just… very right wing. Even the democrats are right of center on most things. This is just a conservative country. The democrats are about as left as you get in this country with any mainstream support, no matter how much we wish it weren’t so.
And I know man, I hate it, and I’m not going to lecture anyone that votes their conscious. If you don’t want to vote for democrats, and Biden specifically, I can’t blame you. It bewilders me that the most we can get from him over a goddamn genocide is “that’s a little much, Jack.” If you can’t vote for that I get it.
Just don’t fall into the trap of thinking that the US is more left leaning than it is. We might win on issue-to-issue polls, but when it comes down to it we’re a selfish nation that has bought into the temporarily embarrassed millionaire meme. And I don’t think that’s just the pessimism talking. We have generations worth of work ahead of us.
100%. Yes. This. High five.
Proud of you!
The US two-party system is such an aberration to me.
