- cross-posted to:
- europe@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- europe@lemmy.ml
A controversial rule restricting speech about Israel was dropped after artists abandoned festival lineups in Germany’s techno mecca.
A controversial rule restricting speech about Israel was dropped after artists abandoned festival lineups in Germany’s techno mecca.
Sure, it was, at least according to the article. Emphasis mine:
And that is why Vice is a trash publication. Here is the correct text:
https://www.tagesspiegel.de/kultur/chialo-erlass-gegen-antisemitismus-berlins-kultureinrichtungen-bekommen-neue-forderrichtlinien-11006422.html
And what is in the IHRA-definition?
https://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/de/aussenpolitik/kultur-und-gesellschaft/-/216610
There’s nothing in there about “criticising the countries occupation of Palestinian lands”. You just can’t fucking mask your antisemitism by raging against Israel.
That is some valuable context, thank you. Definitely seems like skewed reporting from Vice. The definition as you posted it definitely seems better than what Vice reported, though its last sentence is so vague that it could easily be used to silence criticism, whether it was meant to do that or not.
You can. because you referenced the IHRA “definition” of antisemitism adopted by themselves, the IHRA, in 2016
Aka
their own definition, criticized specifically for conflating antizionism with antisemitism
aka
the “definition” that led to 200 scholars making a new definition debunking it
aka a definition being used currently to silence free speech. If you’re using it to silence critisism of israel you are weaponizing it against one of the original drafter’s intentions.
So why not consider silence yourself? I’ve had quite enough of this ridiculous tantrum you call a point
That makes me even more confused. Are those artists now going to be allowed to play and spread antisemitism (as defined above)?
Yes “Palestinia” has claimed to own the entire land Israel. So in short, Antisemitism.
Wanting foreign invaders out of the land they stole almost a century ago is not antisemetic.
Criticizing zionism and israeli settler colonialism is not antisemetic either.
It is.
According to zionists and their allies, only.
Take a look at what Jewish Voice for Peace have to say:
The ADL classifies JVP as an antisemitic hate group! 😂
Keep saying this. Every time you do Israel loses more public support.
The shield has been used up and is no longer valid. The general public no longer accepts you zealots calling every criticism of Israel antisemitism.
So fuck you and fuck Israel. Yes Israel has a right to exist, but they do not have a right to illegally steal land. Palestine has a right to exist also.
That would mean criticizing Lebensraum is anti german racism.
“They just want their historical homeland!”
“Why won’t those poles just stop attacking germany if they want peace so badly‽”
It is, its idiotic and they stole the land as well.
This is the same argument Russia has for Ukraine btw.
No they didn’t. Even the christian crusaders, who where happy to commit pogroms against jews in Europe as a sort of “motivational entertainment” had to note the peaceful coexistence of jews, christians and muslims under islamic rule.
The Palestinians of today are the descendants of the biblical abrahamic tribes. White european, often secular, jews, who now control Israel are killing the people whose lineage is closer to David and Abraham, than theirs could ever be.
Bro you come with David and Abraham when in reality it’s about the right for Israel to exist. And that right is granted. There is no legitimate discussion about it everyone thinking Israel shouldn’t exists is antisemitic and a idiot.
This place of land has been inhabited for almost the entire human history and pre-history. It had many rulers. Now its Israel and thats it.
You claimed that the land was stolen from the jewish people who were there first, which is the main historical argument, as to why israel has a right to exist, despite the basis for that being the mass displacement and killing of the Palestinians during the Nakba and the subsequent occupation.
But the land was never “stolen” from the jewish people. Most of the Palestinians simply becamse christians and muslims over time. The whole “the state has a right to exist”, which is very different from “the people have a right to exist”, is a western construct, to justify pushing the jews, who survived the holocaust to Israel and to channel the western countries “redemption” from commiting, being complicit in, or being inactive about the holocaust.
In international law there is no concept of a states “right to exist”. People have a right to exist and they have the right to sovereignity, for which a state is a way to express it. But it is not bound to this state of Israel in this constitution and with this government and with this genocide against the Palestinians.
This right to sovereignity is equally maintained in a two state solution, or a one state solution, where Israelis and Palestinians have equal political participation and equal rights as citizens. That was even one of the main ideas of the early zionists. But the later radicalization of zionism after Israel was founded, led them to believe, they could take it all. And that is why they reduced Gaza to rubbles. That is why they tried to displace the people into Egypt. That is why they talk about deporting or murdering all the Palestinians in the Israeli government. And that is why they need to be criticized and they need to be stopped.
This is also what progressive jews demand. And these progressive jews are equally affected by being excluded from public discourse in Germany, being excluded from cultural events and being denied formerly sheduled awards, and being taken into police custody for demonstrating and denied their right to demonstrations. So in alledgedly fighting against antisemitism, Germany commits antisemitism on a huge scale.
Hey thanks for educating me on a nation’s right to exist. I needed that.
You’re welcome. It should be added that there is a right of a state to defend itself from military agression. So of course Israel does have the right to defend itself from Hamas or other attacks on its people. This is relevant in the scope of conflicting rights, as Hamas has no right to attack civillians.
So this is not what the “state x has a right to exist” argument is about. It is used and needed to justify the continued denial of the rights of the Palestinians.
It remains an argument of might makes right. Imagine the US would say that the native Americans wanting their land back would be an attack on the US right to existence.
Arguing what was left of Palestine before the Six Days War has the right to exist without occupation, homes and crops seized and burnt, being bombed relentlessly, being kidnapped, held and tortured is in no way arguing Israel has no right to exist.
And Palestinians exercised that right by doing what? Killing Israeli citizens?
Imagine if Hamas spent aid money on developing Gaza instead.
Stop justifying genocide. This is a repetitively grossly disproportionate retaliation, gaslighting to hide genocide. Period. Hasbara/IDF are fascist apologists, full stop. “Never again” applies to all or none.
I know you and your ilk don’t care about that, but no they didn’t. The Palestinians of today are the same Palestinians of 2000 years ago. Palestine wasn’t only Jews.
And yet they killed all the jews and whats before that? Our history is a little longer than 2000 years… About 12000 years to be specific. (if we take the first city as the start of human civilization)
Also Judaism is a lot older than Islam, wich is even younger than Christianity, wich itself is based on Judaism.
You realize both the Palestinian and Jewish people are descendants from the people that lived on the land back then, right? We literally have evidence of that.
Like, just because your RELIGION is Islam or Christianity, that doesn’t mean you can’t be GENETICALLY Jewish. In fact there’s this whole thing WITHIN Judaism regarding ethnic Jews vs non-ethnic Jews…
You seem to be arguing about the Jews rights as a race, but conflating it to religion. Because if it was about “race”, then Palestinians are entitled to the same land as Israel claims.
One cannot be genetically Jewish, since anyone can convert into this religion.
Is that clear enough?
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And yet they killed all the jews and whats before that? Our history is a little longer than 2000 years… About 12000 years to be specific. (if we take the first city as the start of human civilization)
Also Judaism is a lot older than Islam, wich is even younger than Christianity, wich itself is based on Judaism.
No they… didn’t? I’m not even sure what you’re talking about. Zionists tend to refer to some nonexistent Arab genocide of all inhabitants of Palestine so they can conveniently claim that the people currently living there “stole” it; is that what you mean?
They did until Balfour decided to just take land from people already there and arbitrarily draw new lines on a map, probably with a sharpie.