People at Bonn protesting against Nazi cunts singing Ode to Joy
Damn. Wish the rest of Europe would do it this big.
In Germany millions are protesting against our fascist party AfD, after they unveiled their mass deportation plans.
I know. It’s good.
Look great.
Now I am expeting the same millions of people protesting the things that let afd to grow.
Remember, afd is a consequence not a cause.
Yeah, but destroying the consequence is sometimes needed to eliminate the cause.
Only if you just want to hide the causes in the short term.
But let’s assume that you destroy afd, do you really think that all the people that vote for them will change their mind while having the same problems ? You basically only said to them to shut up, do you really think it will work well ? Maybe for the next electoral deadline, but then ?
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Whatever are the causes, if you just remove the consequences you don’t solve the problem.
Let’s assume that afd grow only becasue Russian money and disinformation (which I personlly don’t belive like I don’t belive that Fratelli d’Italia won because suddently 30% if the italian population is fascist), do you really think that destroying afd will stop the flow of money and disinformation ? They simply will choose (or build) another group to give the money to making better choices.
And you will end up in a situation where the far right group will be able to paint you as the bad guy because you oppose things that basically will be the same things afd is proposing now but with a much nicer dress so that they look acceptable.
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I would not be that optimist about the “few years”, expecially because I don’t see the will to fix the problems which leaded to the afd (and far right in general) grow.
To me this just seems something like “hide the dirt under the rug and hope that it will go away”. And it is a stupid path to follow
the french are already doing it quite well, wherever you live would definetely benefit from a protest of this scale.
The French right wing party “Front National” nearly won the presidential election. I think France should do a lot better!!
When? Where? Last time I remember this in France was 19 years ago. :-(
Let’s just appreciate for a moment how great of a choice Ode to Joy is for the European Anthem. It’s a very memorable tune which honestly kind of slaps in a way that few anthems do.
Still not as great as La Marseillaise (which is not even a song, but a war chant meant to be hollered), but one of the best anthems out there nonetheless.
I was confused after reading the post and got worried thinking it was the Nazis using Ode to Joy as their own.
The Pete Seeger version that I’ve often heard sometimes called Ode to Joy/Russian Song has fantastic lyrics. Not speaking German, I’m wondering if these folks are singing the same translation?
It’s beautiful. Many of the comments here demonstrate that Lemmy still needs to learn how to not feed the trolls, and I wonder if it’s something similar that’s needed in real life politics.
I think the difference is posting on lemmy isn’t quite the same as having an entire society’s fate in your hands.
I can ignore despicable politicians, but that doesn’t prevent them getting elected and targetting people like me.
Reminds me of Oswald Mosley (leader of the British fascist party c. 1930s) saying that it didn’t matter if they won tomorrow or after a hundred years. Thankfully he was wrong about winning… but truly these fascist fuckers will always pop up somewhere.
We know it’s a bad idea, we know it’s a dangerous idea, we know it’s a deadly idea, and a complete failure in practice. Sign me up! /s
This is great news. However, I can’t help but fear that people went back to their private lives afterwards thinking “well done, we defended democracy”. Where to go from here? How to keep people engaged in fighting the right? What are realistic next steps for those of us wanting to do more than voting and the occasional demonstration, other than violence? On another note, how might one approach minorities concerned by the indicated policies to join the movement?
Trump is going to win, AfD is going to win, it’s going to be hilarious, and the minorities are coming with us. You should enjoy the ride.
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It’s hilarious because the left can’t admit any of their own mistakes. For example, the mass migration into western nations. People said this would cause crime to increase, homelessness, economic turmoil, etc and were simply branded racist for their valid concerns. Now all those things are happening and the left still can’t admit to any of it being true. They just bury their heads in the sand and keep yelling “racist!” and “fascist!” if people don’t want millions of foreigners shipped into their home town and supported by their tax money. Oddly they themselves are the ones promoting racists and fascists if those are the only people who are willing to listen to their legitimate concerns. The left is completely delusional on an individual level and even when you point this out to them, support it with facts, they never admit fault or reconsider their positions. Right now the left media is sensationalizing “fascists” but not covering the crisis caused by their own policies. What do they expect that to result in?
Again, the left brought in tons of “migrants” who wouldn’t even be coming if western nations hadn’t blown up their countries, people said wait a minute, why are we letting people come here from the very countries we are supposedly fighting a “war on terror” against and blowing up all their stuff, won’t they be upset with us, aren’t they incompatible with western values, won’t they compete with us for jobs, won’t we have to spend our taxes supporting them? All of these things and sure enough there are a ton of problems now as a result of the actions of the left and when a political party rises in power to stop them the left starts yelling “facists!” Do they really not understand that people would rather vote for fascists than have their countries destroyed and overrun with people who literally hate them and their way of life?
The left wants people to peacefully accept the destruction of their society. They refuse to look at any of the damage their policies have caused. Honestly my only conclusion is that this is simply the powers that be setting people up to implement fascism.
The most entertaining part is now they’re talking about banning the party that is offering to counter these policies. As if the party came out of a vacuum and simply wants to get rid of all immigrants. The left is incapable of seeing it’s own role in things. Now they want to ban a political party, censor it, spy on it, etc while calling them fascists as they themselves pull out every authoritarian trick in the book crushing the will of the people as they bray about protecting democracy.
See Trudeau violating the constitution, stealing people’s money and locking them out of banking, just because people successfully protested against him and his COVID nonsense. The left IS the fascist authoritarian state they keep claiming people should be scared about if the right wins.
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It doesn’t matter if it is fascism. That’s the whole point. The left is refusing to admit that their policies are having a negative impact on people and they’re embracing fascism because at least those people are agreeing that it is a problem.
Western nations are playing the “we have no workers” game after decades of stagnant birth rates because people have no money. Not because people just suddenly decided they don’t want a family. Parroting this is just more of the same lies that people are sick of hearing.
The government can use policies to boost birth rates domestically and it should be doing so sooner rather than later if they are sincere. Instead, they are keeping the youth impoverished, and telling them the solution to their problems is immigrants. Not only that but then they try to play on their sympathies saying they’re “asylum seekers” when those SAME governments are the ones making them refugees by destroying their countries. How does it make sense to blow up Syria, try to topple the government, and then welcome in their “refugees”? That is extremely paradoxical and I don’t think you’ll find any historical precedent for welcoming in the very people you’re dropping bombs on. It’s obvious those people are extremely resentful and have no interest in assimilating and that is exactly what the evidence supports. Using Germany as an example it would be like welcoming in Russian immigrants while at the same time you’re doing all you can to kill Russians and destroy their infrastructure. Where are all the Russian asylum seekers and refugees being ferried into Germany by international organizations? Why is it just hand picked countries this is being done in? Because it’s all a sham and the left refuses to admit what is obvious.
Immigrants can both take work AND siphon tax money. It is propaganda, which is used often, to try to say “they’re saying X but Y so which is it? They can’t both be true!” Actually, yes, they can both be true. Bringing in foreigners to work for dirt cheap and live in subsidized housing is exactly that and it’s the kind of thing people are sick of seeing. Meanwhile, where are the politicians working on raising western birth rates?
Have any politicians proposed sweeping reforms to child tax credits? Are they working hard to fix the housing situation for young people so they can have the actual space to house a family? No. They aren’t. They’re working as hard as they can to blow up other countries, bring those populations in, pay them nothing, use tax money to support the corporations, and tell everyone that if anyone resists them it’s because they’re racist fascists.
So, people are deciding, well I guess I’m a racist fascist because that is the only avenue I’m being given. Certainly the left isn’t interested in addressing any of the problems they’re creating they just call you a racist if you talk about the out of control rape and other issues.
There WILL be a fascist take over and dumb people ignoring legitimate concerns of the general populace and labeling them fascist will be the cause of it. You’re building those fascist parties up every day when you keep parroting propaganda and ignoring what is obvious to the average person. They will flock to whoever will promise a solution even if it’s ethnic cleansing. To me it seems entirely manufactured and that this is the desired conclusion.
Western populations are so exploited they won’t even reproduce anymore due to lack of resources. Their own government is telling them not to worry that they have no chance of having a family. Don’t worry because there are some other people who have been horribly exploited in places like Africa and the Middle East who we can bring it to replace you. If you think this is a problem it’s because you’re racist.
The left is literally the dumbest most propagandized people I’ve ever seen that they go along with this. You have to either be incredibly stupid or incredibly evil to keep parroting stuff like “we need more people” in response to the government fucking everyone, literally everyone on the whole planet, for the sake of further concentration of power and wealth. Imagine seeing this and going along with it while pretending you’re fighting fascism.
Hope you got your kool-aid folks, there’s going to be a national shortage caused by this one.
Die Partei: Nazis töten. You love to see it
25 seconds later: 🇩🇪 - Flagge wtf haha
If you had to boil down, the german constitution into one short sentence, it would be ‘Never again’.
So displaying the german flag at such an occasion, is acually one of the few occasions where it is appropriate to use it in an political context IMHO.
And as a bonus point it gives nazis a taste of there own medicine, by taking symbols & language used by the opposition for your own movement. But in an non-stupid way this time.
I’m glad to see people up in arms about this. We need more of this. Across the world.
I voted afd
Well, you should read the Partys Program, look info what their leaders say and realize it was a mistake. If you think they are right in their views, you may just be an asshole, sry about that.
Check his username bruv
Yeah, I took the bait there…
Well, I did read their 2023 Party Program, and I’m afraid it’s pretty polished to appear mainstream. I was shocked on how many points appealed to me on first glance, like plebiscites, the prohibition for judges to be affiliated with a political party, universal basic income or transparent financing of political parties.
You have to actually study it, interpret it with their mindset in mind and compare it to the populist playbook used in countries like Italy, Hungary or Poland to detect the underlying fascism. It’s a shiny piece of deception.
It might be worth to write a comment on it.
That’s the “neat” thing about the party and their voters: They are used to not base things on facts. So they write one thing into their party program and do the other thing or not, just like they want and they promise a third thing in conflict with the first two. E.g. according to their program oft 2023 the reforms they want would help the rich, but all their voters (which are poor on average) believe that their polices would help them.
Btw some crazy points from their program:
- Abolish any inheritance tax
- Set a total max for the amount of money you have to pay taxes for, so if you are rich earn more and don’t pay a cent!
- They went from “there is no climate change” to “climate change always happened, we have nothing to do with it, CO2 is a essential part of live, we should make more!”
- Stop all wind energy projects
- “Landwirtschaft: Mehr Wettbewerb. Weniger Subventionen” Which translates to “More competition and less subsidies for agriculture” and still they manage to claim the farmer protests for them.
- Kids born in Germany should not have a chance to German citizenship if the parents do not have it. Regardless if they live their whole live here.
- Ignore EU policies when convenient, reimplement border controls (or in other words, leave the EU)
- Strive for assimilation of migrants (Yes the use the word “Assimilation”)
- Only grant asylum to people which can fill job roles where there is a provable gap in demand and local workforce.
- Do not mention homosexuality in school
- Do not grant any abortion rights, force any consultant to persuade a pregnant women to keep the child.
And I could go on. I think its pretty obvious what kind of political party they are, even from their program. Sure they have some good points in there too, but so do other parties which are not far-right and science deniers.
Btw some crazy points from their program:
Abolish any inheritance taxThat not seems that crazy. I mean, someone lost his beloved one and in addition to his grieve he has to pay a tax. Right…
You lost your parents and you pay the state for the privilege to keep their inheritance… Sounds good this way ? (and no, to the rich people it change nothing)
“Landwirtschaft: Mehr Wettbewerb. Weniger Subventionen” Which translates to “More competition and less subsidies for agriculture” and still they manage to claim the farmer protests for them.On this I have a double feeling. On one hand I have seen the disasters of the subsidies to the agricolture like the milk quotas and the farmer paid to not cultivate the field while importing product from outside, on the other hand this make sense only if you eliminate the unfair competition from outside and make everyone play by the same rules.
Kinds born in Germany should not have a chance to German citizenship if the parents do not have it. Regardless if they live their whole live here.Stupid idea, I agree.
Ignore EU policies when convenient, reimplement border controls (or in other words, leave the EU)As long as they are prepared to be ignored by the others… and no, border control does not means to leave the EU. It means check what and who enter in your country, because I don’t see the problem with border controls that keep the illegal people and goods out of my country.
But I see what they mean and I agree with you.
Only grant asylum to people which can fill job roles where there is a provable gap in demand and local workforce.Mmm… asylum should be granted only to people in danger for some serious reason, in other words it should be an exceptional case, not the norm. I agree it is really stupid to tie it to fact that who ask for it should be able can cover for a local workforce gap.
So yes, they have some very stupid ideas, but other does not seems too bad and I am sure that if some other parties would propose them in a better language they would be approved by a large part of the population.
But as long as the people (and who is in charge) don’t understand that afd and all the parties like it are a consequence and not a cause the problem will be never solved.
Just so you know, inheritance tax in Germany inly kicks in, if the inheritance is over 500.000 Euros and then it is 20% I believe. So your argument actually falls a tad short here.
Also the current competition in agriculture only promote the commulation of farms into companies. The farmers who actually need support don’t get it, which further accelerates the industrialisation of farming. Which is what the protest is about, not that many farmers get that they are being exploited by their own lobbyists and the AfD.
Lastly, while the AfD has for some time been saying they want the EU to stay and Germany being part of it, they are now discussing a German Exit. As if that did any good for the UK. It would likely be even worse for Germany. My guess is, that they felt offended by Meloni for saying that they would not work with the AfD on anything.
Just so you know, inheritance tax in Germany inly kicks in, if the inheritance is over 500.000 Euros and then it is 20% I believe. So your argument actually falls a tad short here.
I don’t understand your point. I get that the limit is high but it does not make any difference: you lost your parent and you need to pay for the privilege to keep their inheritance. How many money you could or want to tax is irrelevant in my opinion. It is a tax that should be deleted for everyone.
Also the current competition in agriculture only promote the commulation of farms into companies.
Which can be not that bad to me
The farmers who actually need support don’t get it, which further accelerates the industrialisation of farming.
Maybe. But what the subsidies have done until now are only damages: they have not helped the farmers and have not stopped the industrialisation.
I don’t really know what the solution could be but to me the subsidies are not the solution.Lastly, while the AfD has for some time been saying they want the EU to stay and Germany being part of it, they are now discussing a German Exit. As if that did any good for the UK. It would likely be even worse for Germany
True, but this is a consequence, not the cause.
For example, why do you think that Meloni won last time ? Not because suddently 30% of the Italian population became fascist but because she aknowledged the problems people have and that the left (and the EU) choose to ignore. Remove the causes (read: do what is good for your people) and you remove the ones who want to destroy EU because people would not have a reason do destroy it.
Just so you know, spez is the colossal dickhead CEO of Reddit, who fucked everything up and caused the Reddit exodus. This is a troll account.
Ah fuck, I fell for it 🫠
Wait what, I didn’t know Ode to joy had lyrics.
Ode to Joy is Beethoven’s 9th symphony, and has lyrics. The anthem of the EU is the same but without lyrics.
One step further: it’s Schiller’s poem. Beethoven turned it into a symphony.
Fuck AfD!!!
I wholly recommend Slavoj Zizek’s take on the 1st part of the 9th and its appropriation by different dictatorships and ideologies.
There are better songs if you want to bash fashs.
That video seems cut off. Zizek never gets to explain how Beethoven was criticizing anything with the second part of his symphony. How can lyric-less music criticize anything?
I believe at the time the Church had rules about musical timing for its music and things like certain chords and i think 3/4 timing as a whole were considered a sin.
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