Florida State University, 'Florida Strategic Plan on Human Trafficking', (go to page 27 or Ctrl+F search for "Justin King"):
https://www.dcjs.virginia.gov/sites/dcjs.virginia.gov/files/publications/victims/florida-strategic-plan-human-trafficking.pdf
US Department of Justice, Feb 28 2008 'Florida Man Sentenced for Smuggling Aliens to Work in Florida Resorts':
https://www.justice.gov/archive/opa/pr/2008/February/08_crm_145.html
BeauOfTheFifthColumn, 'Let's talk about 100,000 subscribers and me....':
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8H7OdZzNH4
all writing, presenting, editing: John David Card
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This statement has the potential for a more productive discussion. Which claims do you think are not supported by the documents?
Why are you looking to change the subject? I already said that my point stands even if the claims in the video were supported by the documents. I am not here for discussion of nitpicks of the video, I am here to see what people have to say about the topic of people with complicated histories being allowed to be active within anarchist spaces. If you agree with the person in the video, then answer my question, instead of trying to deflect.
I’m not deflecting. I’m choosing not to engage. Forgive me for assuming you didn’t watch the video, but your comments indicate you didn’t absorb most of what the author was trying to say, and instead gave it your own twist. If you can’t parse the messages from the video, what hope do I have of explaining things to you?
If you want to continue, you need to indicate that you respect opposing viewpoints enough to pay attention to the detail of what is being explained to you. If you can correctly summarize the claims made the in video, and indicate that you’ve read the documents well enough to try and dispute them, that’s one way of showing you’re engaging respectfully.
You’re asking someone to do you a favor, don’t waste their time.
Asking for people’s thoughts on a subject is encouraging discussion, not asking for a favor. And why do I need to provide further evidence of having watched the video when, as I have stated before, the contents of the video are secondary to the existence of the video in the first place? This video is exactly like several other videos and articles about the subject, except it is the newest one, and is being posted in a space where (supposedly) people recognize that we have a very flawed legal system.
Given the fact that you have been the one dismissive of me, given that you assumed I hadn’t watched the video based solely on the fact that I disagreed, tells me that you aren’t interested in actually engaging in the discussion around my question. Instead you seem entirely focused on luring me into a discussion around whether the video’s claims are true or not, which, as I said earlier, has nothing to do with the topic I am trying to stick to.
So again, even if everything in the video is 100% correct as stated, I still want to know what people think should be accepted as evidence of change of character. Obviously it is case dependent, but having a guideline will be helpful, especially if we are pushing for something like prison abolition, which a lot of people will see as extreme if there is no example of a replacement. Given that we specifically want a solution that involves reintegration of a person into society, determining what is required for that reintegration is key. Because right now, we are advocating for these policies while currently supporting a pattern of refusing to allow people like Beau to participate in communities based on past actions, even when all actions since are showing someone who is genuine and in no position to repeat past offences.
For what it’s worth, I think these are important questions and wish I had answers for them. Part of why I watch this community and the one for Abolition of Police and Prisons is to try to understand what society looks like in this very different framework. Figuring out how an anarchist society gauges rehabilitation and identifies milestones is a good goal.
Thank you. Again, I know that not everyone will have the same answer, and no single answer will be right for every situation. I already know about a bunch of general ideas surrounding community restitution on various forms, but I know that it is a difficult discussion to have when the topic is a real situation and not a hypothetical.
Your cover story is wearing pretty thin.
This isn’t really about Beau, is it?
Very much like Beau, you’re deflecting and minimizing the facts rather than admitting that you were wrong. If you want people to treat you as a changed person, you need to demonstrate that you have changed. By not taking full accountability for what you have done, you’re indicating that under the veneer of kindness, you are still the same abusive person you were before.
This isn’t a tenet of anarchism, this transcends politics and culture. No-one owes you forgiveness for your abuse. You need to change, but you shouldn’t change because you think it will make people forgive you; you can’t force that. Everyone you hurt is justified in despising you, and everyone who cares about the people you hurt is justified in holding a grudge. You can change everything about yourself and never be forgiven - forgiveness can’t be earned. Forgiveness is a gift. It can’t be bestowed upon you through government, philosophy, or religion; it can only be given by the ones you’ve harmed. Anyone who tells you otherwise is selling you something.
It’s not what you and Beau did, its what you both continue to do that demonstrates you are not worthy of trust.
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