- cross-posted to:
- worldnews@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- worldnews@lemmy.ml
Secretary of State Antony Blinken on Wednesday called out other countries for not demanding Hamas surrender.
“What is striking to me is that even as, again, we hear many countries urging the end to this conflict, which we would all like to see, I hear virtually no one saying – demanding of Hamas that it stop hiding behind civilians, that it lay down its arms, that it surrender. This is over tomorrow if Hamas does that. This would have been over a month ago, six weeks ago, if Hamas had done that,” Blinken said during a press briefing at the State Department Wednesday.
“How can it be that there are no demands made of the aggressor and only demands made of the victim,” Blinken went on to say.
The strong comments from Blinken come as the United Nations Security Council continues to negotiate a resolution calling for a suspension in fighting and encouraging more humanitarian aid into the beleaguered Gaza Strip, and as the United States’ support for the resolution remains unresolved.
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To analogize with another ongoing conflict: the Ukrainian war could be over tomorrow if Ukraine unconditionally surrendered to Russia, but they’re sure as fuck not going to do that, nor should they.
Also, to be clear: I am absolutely not saying that Hamas are the good guys here. They are definitely not the good guys. But addressing an incredibly complex and nuanced situation in such a reductive fashion (“Hamas should surrender unconditionally right now”) is deeply unhelpful, and ignores why Hamas came into being in the first place, and why they further developed into such a threatening force in the region.
“We wouldn’t have to kill so many civilians if the criminals would stop committing crimes.”
The indiscriminate killings and beatings will continue until morale improves
More like “we wouldn’t have to kill so many civilians if the criminals didn’t use them as meat shields”.
Living in a crowded area where missiles are fired = meat shields?
Nope, hiding in hospitals = meat shields.
That was disproven two days ago by the Washington Post. There were no Hamas bases in any hospital. The IDF just bombed doctors and patients.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/12/21/al-shifa-hospital-gaza-hamas-israel/
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They are absolutely not.
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The fuck are you talking about?
Hamas is bad. The Israeli government is also bad. They are bad for different reasons. Neither of them have defensible or humane long-term strategies. Neither of them are better than the other. They are both bad.
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No it’s not.
I’ll reiterate: Hamas is bad. The Israeli Government is bad. Both Palestinian and Israeli civilians (note: Israeli “settlers” should not be considered noncombatants) are innocent, and just trapped in the middle.
Hamas is morally gray. They did some bad stuff but they are fighting a genocidal occupier. Israel is basically Nazi Germany.
Hamas took good care to avoid killing children. Israel wants to kill all the children.
The Palestinians were trapped against a wall if Hamas didn’t exist. Now they’re in the middle.
Are you gonna call the Allies just as evil as the Nazis for bombing Dresden in WW2 and killing many German civilians?
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That’s what Hamas claims, yet you’re still supporting them.
Do you also think the Viet Cong was bad and a terrorist organization? They used similar guerilla tactics, and also attacked villages and took hostages. These are simply the most effective tactics for driving out an occupying force, and they wouldn’t be necessary if the oppressors weren’t there in the first place.
Hamas isn’t great, but they sure as hell are better than Israel. Even their most damaging attack on October 7 doesn’t compare to the shit Israel has been repeatedly doing for over half a century now. Nor does it compare to the current Palestinian genocide.
They are though. I get what you’re saying, but Israel is modern Nazi Germany. There aren’t many ways to be worse than Nazi Germany.
There are interviews with Ukrainian soldiers who said they stay away from civilians so that when Russians bombard them the civilians will not be affected.
I think the combat style and priorities are a bit different so a comparision cannot be made in this case.
Can you link me to the part where Ukraine fired thousands of rockets at Russian cities and started a war by raping and murdering a thousand innocent people?
Hamas didn’t murder a thousand innocent people at all
Only around 780 unarmed occupiers died of which most were recruited members of the the IDF terrorist organisation. Hamas directly killed 375 armed IDF Nazis.
Of course we now know that many occupiers, especially most if not all of the children were actually killed by the ZioNazis firing rockets and tank shells at their own people.
And there still is no evidence of Hamas raping anyone not sure why you keep bringing up this lie.
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Care to address which part wasn’t true instead of having to rely on insults?
Aside from the rockets nothing he said was true and I just debunked it with facts. Not sure why these facts upset you so much.
Debunked with lies and misinformation.
I would link the sources like I have done a million times but instead let’s have you link the actual proof this time, since you always quickly hightail out to the next news article to spread IDF propganda when I link my proof instead of dating to respond to it.
Or you know what let’s do 50/50
https://news.yahoo.com/israel-social-security-data-reveals-111544492.html?guccounter=1
The final death toll from the attack is now thought to be 695 Israeli civilians, including 36 children, as well as 373 security forces and 71 foreigners, giving a total of 1,139.
(these deaths includes the IDF mass friendly fire on Kibbutzes and the festival)
You are a hamas supporter
Saying that as if it’s a bad thing lmao. Of course you should support the people resisting an occupying force. They have been far more civil than Israel has ever been.
You are intentionally misrepresenting what I said.
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Hamas should surrender unconditionally because there is a 0% chance of them winning this war and a negligible chance of them surviving this war.
That’s when you surrender.
You don’t appear to understand how terrorist organizations work.
I understand quite well how terrorist organizations work
How do you think Hamas wins this war, or survives it with any degree of their operating infrastructure intact? If Hamas is non-viable going forward, Iran will just send the money elsewhere, meaning Hamas ceases to exist even if they survive.
In what universe are dead martyrs better than living ones, assuming you’re trying to galvanize people into supporting your organization?
Perhaps you just meant “no sane human being joins a terror org so of course they won’t surrender” in which case yeah that does describe the reality.
I understand quite well how terrorist organizations work.
You say that, then you say
In what universe are dead martyrs better than living ones…
A terrorist is literally only martyred by dying for their cause. There’s no such thing as a living martyr.
So no, you absolutely do not understand how terrorist organizations, specifically terrorist organizations like Hamas, actually work.
You clearly don’t know how terrorist organizations use the term “martyr” but I assure you Hamas considers every Gazan a martyr already. It’s in their charter
By which they mean they will sacrifice as many people as they must to accomplish their stated goals, thereby actually martyring them. There’s literally no such thing as “a living martyr”.
How are you not getting this? You cannot be considered a martyr until you have died in service or your religion, either by righteous sacrifice or by capital punishment for actions of faith.
Look, I get where you are coming from. You’re trying to apply logic and reason to a situation where there isn’t much of either. Religious zealots and unscrupulous nationalists are doing terrible things to each other, and there’s a shitload of innocent civilians stuck in the middle. But your oversimplification of “hamas should surrender without condition” conveys a tremendous lack of understanding of what either side hopes to accomplish.
For the record, I don’t necessarily disagree with you. I believe Hammas could do much more good in the long run by surrendering, thereby ending the conflict… but then the eyes of the world would be on Israel as they continued to bulldoze Gaza and make life for innocent Palestinians even harder. But that’s still a shitty take because the innocent still suffer, and the world would likely just turn away and ignore it until the next time a terrorist does something terrible.
I’m not sure there’s much chance of them surviving a surrender either
Inshallah
You could replace ‘hamas’ with ‘Ukraine’ here and it would be just as true.
Let’s invade a country, then blame the war on the people for fighting back and tell the world “well if they wouldn’t fight back there would be no war, so it’s all their fault really”.
Your tineline seems a little confused? 10/7 was a strike by hamas, not Israel
Yeah because we all know this all started on October 7…
This particular conflict did indeed start then.
So after this one is resolved and Israel violates the ceasefire does that count as starting again?
What planet are you living on? Hamas will violate the cease fire on day one.
dude you’re on lemmy. lemmy loves hamas and hates jews.
dunno why you haven’t left yet lol
Like they did in 2008? Maybe 2012?
Are we pretending they didn’t?
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Nobody in Gaza. Israel stopped doing so in 2005 in an effort to generate sustainable peace in the region.
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Neither party in this war was illegally occupying or settling the other.
Blinken noted in the briefing that “understandably, everyone would like to see this conflict end as quickly as possible,” but, he observed, “if it ends with Hamas remaining in place and having the capacity and the stated intent to repeat October 7th again and again and again, that’s not in the interests of Israel, it’s not in the interests of the region, it’s not in the interests of the world.”
Obviously not but it’s an important part of the discussion, especially with their stated interest in repeating it.
Fighting back does is not the same as terrorism
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99% of this site believes what comes out of the Palestinian government regardless of how it’s been shown to be falsified more often than true and almost always spun. It’s truly an example of a repeated lie being eventually believed.
I mean the ANC was condemned as a terrorist organization. Mandela was a terrorist according to the US until 2008.
“How can it be that there are no demands made of the aggressor and only demands made of the victim,” Blinken went on to say.
Israel has been the aggressor for decades now. They trapped these people, made it impossible for any economic opportunity, raided them daily killing indiscriminately, stole their land repeatedly and then want to play the victim when the provoked people fight back. Fuck off, Israel needs to return the land, end the blockades, and allow the investments it lied about, only then would it even be close to neutral. I hate hamas, but Israel made this bed
“And don’t get me started on those Native Americans who kept fighting back against the US settlers who invaded their lands. Clearly if they had just agreed to a ceasefire everything would have been fine.”
Aide whispers in ear.
“OK, if they had just agreed to one more ceasefire despite the US constantly breaking them then everything would have been fine!”
Gaza is civilian. It’s a city, an extremely densely populated city. So if Hamas is anywhere in their own land, Israel can make this accusation. What bullshittery to think an invading country slaughtering your population gets to make demands of the where your military is allowed to be in your own country.
It’s similar to the excuse Putin uses. He’s just “defending Russian citizens in XYZ.” It’s cart blanche to do as you please where you please.
I don’t recall Ukraine going into Russia and murdering and raping civilians. Doesn’t mean Israel has any right to slaughter citizens but these are not the same situation.
And if you go back far enough in time, Palestinians never did anything to the jews and yet Israel was created from from Palestine. Maybe Putin should have said the Russian sky magician had promised the land of Ukraine to the Russians, I hear thats very legal and binding.
Hamas didn’t do these things on a large scale (according to the evidence we have). Before blaming all the deaths on Hamas we need numbers for how many Israelis Israel killed in their response to the attack.
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If Israel would just stop being an ally of the US and receiving aid and weapons from the US none of this would have happened.
Turn about is fair play right Blinkers?
What a stupid comment by Blinken.
If there was no Hamas, Israeli settlers would still be committing terrorist acts on unarmed Palestinians in West Bank and right wing politicians would still be threatening to tear down Al Aqsa. If Hamas vanished tomorrow, none of that would change. Netanyahu would still refuse to recognize a two state solution and would refuse to negotiate with Abbas or the PA. Gazans would be in an open air prison.
The Israeli military shot unarmed Palestinian protestors and the US State Department did nothing. Palestinians asked the international community for help to end their oppression and the Israeli government called it “diplomatic terrorism” and sanctioned Palestinians further. Boycotting Israel is illegal in US law. Why should anyone listen to the US State Department’s recommendations when they don’t even follow through?
I’m going to guess that America and genocide Joe have lost any moral authority they had because they cower to Israel.
We’re not cowering, Israel is a Christian project ultimately.
Dude, the US really has not shame left.
“wHy ArE tHe PaLeStInIaNs dOiNg ThIs To ThEmSeLvEs??”
Fuck these genocidal pieces of shit
entire Arab League and many other countries/leaders are only interested in Palestinians being Israel’s problem. They don’t care for peace, human rights or any of that. It’s just a stick to beat/delegitimize Israel with.
They all know a cease-fire is temporary at best, until Hamas regains confidence.
Lay down your arms and your oppressors will open theirs. Sure.
This is practically a blood fued that has been going on for longer than anyone has been alive. Literally since biblical times. No one has a good solution cause there is none. Pure example of an eye for an eye leaving everyone blind.
There actually is a very simple solution - secular unification. It’s very difficult to have sympathy for religious fundamentalists.
Ah yes, make the one Jewish state in a region full of Arab states into a secular one. That will definitely work.
I get what you mean, but this mess has been going on since 1917, and evolved into its current form in 1948/1949. The biblical conflict over the holy land ended with the crusades.
I’m sure there is a surviving connection.
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I nominate you.
If this was any other country, they would never say that as a foreign transgressor enters. However, Palestine is not recognized as a state. So Israel, presumably, has not declared war and is just killing civilians as a means to anti terrorism. Even the USA after 9/11 sought valid reasons for war, even if they turned out to be fabricated. Now the veil is gone.
It’s like saying that it was the fault of the Jewish Resistance for not surrendering unconditionally that the Nazis were killing residents of the Warsaw Ghetto.
Guess that at the end of WWII the US brought over a couple of Herr Goebbel’s top employees in the Ministry Of Propaganda along with the rocketry and nuclear scientists. Certainly it would explain a lot…
They’re terrorists, not a country with a reputation and trading partners. They have absolutely nothing to lose. Demand all you want, I demand this rock turn to gold.
Even the Nazis surrendered when it became obvious they couldn’t win and the suffering of their people became great.
Meanwhile Hamas: ‘Some of you Palestinians may die but it’s a sacrifice Hamas is willing to make’.
