Default instance blocks should largely replace defederation

Since what content users might want to see is quite unlikely to match which servers the admins tolerate, choosing instance on the Fediverse can be quite complicated, which is inconvenient and off-putting for new users.

For this reason, and simply that the Fediverse is stronger united, I believe defederation should ideally be reserved for illegal content and extreme cases. If Fediverse platforms would allow instances to simply block the rest for users by default, the user experience would be the same, unless they decide otherwise.

@fediverse #fediverse #defederation

  • taladar@sh.itjust.works
    19·
    11 months ago

    This would likely lead to a lot of content only cached for the 1% of users which change that default which would be quite inefficient for the instance. Not to mention that most admins and mods would likely not see that content so they can not judge the legality of that content (or other reasons to defederate instead).

    • givesomefucks@lemmy.worldEnglish
      17·
      11 months ago

      Not to mention the big reason to defederate isn’t just the subs on an instance.

      It’s users of that but instance getting free reign on posts from other instances to troll or spread hateful bullshit.

      OPs “solution” doesn’t do anything about that, which why they’re wrong and is defederation is better.

    • masimatutu@nerdica.netOP
      6·
      11 months ago

      Content isn’t cached unless someone follows it anyways.

      And I’m not sure what you mean with that latter part; what difference would this make in what content admins can see before they cast their judgement on a server?

      • 𝕽𝖚𝖆𝖎𝖉𝖍𝖗𝖎𝖌𝖍@midwest.social
        8·
        11 months ago

        What op said still stands: if only one of your users follow a high-traffic, heavy-content /c/, then the server is caching all of that content for one person.

        E.g., there’s this great bot on Mastodon that posts random fractals, and the highest-voted ones “breed” to create a new generation of child fractals. The bot posts a static image and an animated movie of each new child every 4 hours. The images are ca 5mb each; the movies are between 20 & 40mb ea. That is, on average, 210mb/d, or 1.4gb per week. That’s a lot of data. You might, as an admin offering a free service, not want to have to pay for that much storage just because one or two users are suscribed to /c/flamereactor (“FlameReactor” is the name, so you can find this mind-blowingly awesome bot). There’s also bandwidth considerations, both on the pull and when users request the content.

        I like the idea, though, and will suggest a tweak, tried and true from Usenet days: provide the ability to unblock to only paying users. It’d give admins control, plus money to offset storage costs. Maybe provide three options to admins: full defederation; auto-block with any user able to unblock, for odeous but low impact sices; and auto-block with unblock for only users in some group - close friends, paying users, whatever.

        Lemmy could also transcribe content into links back to the source, but that’s just punting the bandwidth costs onto someone else, and I wouldn’t be surprised if this is frowned upon within The Federation (although it’s common practice with Reddit and X(twitter) content).

          • 𝕽𝖚𝖆𝖎𝖉𝖍𝖗𝖎𝖌𝖍@midwest.social
            1·
            11 months ago

            There are a lot of ways it could go wrong, for sure. IANAL, but lots of small and large companies have and do navigate these issues. But I wasn’t talking about legally contentious content; this would be a work-aruund for stuff that’s expensive to cache, or stuff you just don’t agree with and so don’t want to absorb the cost out of the goodness of yous heart. Just continue to defederate if you have any doubt.

            Anyway, it was just a potential work-around to address OP’s issue. I’m not a Lemmy dev and won’t be implementing it.

      • taladar@sh.itjust.works
        3·
        11 months ago

        Admins need to make sure they do not host illegal content. They can not do that if they do not see the content so they would likely still have to look at all of it just for the benefit of the few users on their instance who change the default. Instead they could just defederate and not have to worry about that.