Kelly Roskam of the Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Violence Solutions discusses a Supreme Court case that will decide if a federal law prohibiting possession of firearms by people subject to domestic violence protection orders is constitutional
Kelly Roskam of the Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Violence Solutions discusses a Supreme Court case that will decide if a federal law prohibiting possession of firearms by people subject to domestic violence protection orders is constitutional
Domestic abusers shouldn’t have guns…this is true.
The problem is that responsible people get protection orders issued against them all the time (and what’s being discussed are protection orders, not convicted abusers)…because many states require no proof other than the word of the accuser…which inevitably leads to people weaponizing the process out of petty revenge or anger solely to make life hell for their ex. People convicted of domestic abuse would still lose their guns. What the article is discussing is whether people who’ve been accused without evidence should continue to have their rights stripped or not.
If some people losing their right to own guns based on a false accusation also means that some different people don’t get murdered by their psycho exes, is that a good thing on balance?
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I’m not sure what your point is.
The point is that infringing people’s rights because there -might- be some public good is a horrible precedent.
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I’m not sure what relevance your previous post has to this topic.
Anyway, rights are not people, people are more important. As for the right to own a firearm, I’m of the opinion that it’s past time to revisit this amendment. People living in countries without something similar to the 2nd amendment aren’t less free. In fact I’d argue they’re more free as they don’t have to worry about being involved in a massacre just because some white male incel fuckup is having a bad day.
As for your point about protective orders. Did you read the article? The rationale is discussed there.
Fortunately, the only reason to have such fear is media sensationalism and your personal failure to understand the statistics.
Despite the fearmongering, you’re still not even close to likely to experience one.
You’re perfectly OK with the amount of gun-related deaths in the US?
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By going from revisiting the 2nd amendment straight to Chinese totalitarianism you’re showing a complete lack of nuance and critical thinking which makes your opinion less than interesting to me.
There are plenty of countries which exercise gun control and they’re not any less free than the US. Many are more tolerant, more progressive and their societies are fairer and more equatable for everyone.
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Some people will say yes and some people will say no. The same argument you made could be used to outlaw a LOT of human behavior, though.
For me personally, I universally don’t think it’s fair that I could be stripped of some of my rights without due process - that bit is important to me regardless of whether that is used for wrongdoing by others or not. A better solution would be to make due process happen faster, imo…or for the state to take a more proactive role in protecting the accuser until that due process runs its course.
Where do they issue protective orders without more than the word of the accused?
Temporary POs, yes. But actual POs are pretty hard to get. Mine was denied even though my abuser plead guilty to domestic violence because the courts believed he should have the parental right to abuse his children without supervision, too.
The current precedent that is being used to apply the law makes no distinction between “protective order” and “restraining order”. It also makes no distinction between “protective order” and “temporary protective order” nor does it recognize a distinction between “restraining order” and “temporary restraining order”. So considering that, and because the naming convention varies from state to state, we’re forced to consider all those terms equal under the current interpretation of law and current court precedence.
You’ve already admitted that Temporary POs are easy. How easy? In most states, the only requirement is a signed affidavit from an accuser claiming they feel threatened. That’s it.
I’m not going to go look it up state by state to give you the requirements, but I did look up California’s (since they have such a huge population and since many other states base their own laws on the precedence that California sets). In California, an EPO (emergency protective order) can be granted solely from “a person’s allegation of a recent incident of abuse or threat of abuse”. See California Family Code, Chapter 2, Section 6250 Paragraph (A) here: https://studentaffairs.fresnostate.edu/survivoradvocate/documents/CA Victim Protection Statutes.pdf
That’s it. Also in California (and in many other states), EPOs are temporary, but can be repeatedly extended until some upcoming court date can decide on a permanent resolution (and this can take weeks to months). Also in California (and in many other states), a domestic EPO is sufficient to deny someone access to firearms, revoke their concealed handgun license, etc. Here’s the quote from the State of California Emergency Protective Order Bench Guide for judges:
And that bit about “must be surrendered”…comes with some pretty big penalties also. When surrendered, the state takes possession and assigns fees to the subject of the order for hanging onto them…and then if/when the protective order is ultimately lifted or defeated in court, that poor bastard still needs to hire a lawyer to navigate the legal system and all the forms and filings to get them back. One fraudulent protection order ends up costing the subject tens of thousands of dollars.
…And this is the precedent that is currently being challenged.
I had my own brother crashing on my couch for 4 months for this very issue (his ex had filed a fraudulent one against him without needing any more evidence than an allegation…and 3 months into it (after a dozen extensions), she threatened to file one against ME for refusing to let her into my house where he was staying. Obviously, some protection orders are valid and necessary, but the system is currently easily abused by anyone who wants to make their ex’s life miserable and there are ZERO repercussions for filing a fraudulent protection order. I think it’s fair to reconsider how many rights we are willing to violate against an innocent person before there is due process in a court proceeding.
My wife wasn’t given a protection order when a threat was made on her life by her ex. Cop said it was free speech.