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- cross-posted to:
- technews@radiation.party
- hackernews@derp.foo
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There has to be a middle ground response here. Yes, ban people saying “death to Jews” and committing violence and other attacks on Jewish people.
But banning any support for Palestine, which isn’t Hamas, is dumb.
Can’t wait for pictures of people getting arrested for holding signs that say “Palestinians love their children too.”
France go two seconds without being Islamophobic challenge
that uh, doesn’t sound like something they can legally do?
This is a loophole that the Minister of the Interior has been discovering and exploiting for months: he does something whose legality is highly questionable (like banning a demonstration), and by the time his decision is legally challenged and overturned, he’s got what he wanted and there are no legal consequences for him.
Usually, they can, if there are risk of violence appearing. You’re allowed to protest peacefully, but the current situation suggests the protest would be based on anger and maybe provocation.
Of course, French went out and protested anyway, lol. Did they really think they can stop the spirit of resistance in France of all places? It’s laughable. The government may be going off the deep end, but that doesn’t mean all French are, thank God.
I can tell some of the people commenting here are holding back, but there is an undertone of something here that isn’t very Beehaw…
Anyway.
As I live in France, I can confirm that something like this was inevitable. First of all, the politician who called the ban is severely disliked. His name is used as a synonym for poop on the internet. That is just a small detail…
It was more or less decided that he cannot put a blanket ban and would need to ban case by case, but I may have missed something since yesterday.
Through migration and gentrification, France has set itself up for minor disasters such as this. Also, through education. I am from Canada, and I remember learning about this conflict in highschool in the late '90s. But, teenager me didn’t even know at the time what a Muslim was or why religion had anything to do with it. Here in France, students do not learn about it at school, they learn about it from parents. The French way of thinking is always about time, context, and place.
So, last week was the time. Context was terrorism. Place was… Israel. The media here can be quite biased. Lots of younger people have no clue what biased means. They consume lots of YouTube and prefer things to be vulgarised, meaning simplified, and will adopt the opinion of a YouTuber or influencer quite easily. This is contradictory to how the French used to think even 10 years ago.
Since Monday, a fake story about Arabs planning a djihad has been circulating on social media. It is all over French Instagram (my partner showed me) and Telegram too.
Ignorance, fearmongering, bloodlust, racism…all the bad shit could boil over. Adding fuel to the fire is the trend of calling out and doxxing anyone who criticises country A instead of county B.
I think the police will have a busy day and some looters will again take advantage of the situation.
I’m wondering how Netanyahu manipulates these western politicians who weren’t compromised by Putin.
Same MO as always. If you’re not with Israel (the country) you are anti-Semitic, have forgotten about the Holocaust (which you should feel ashamed of letting happen), and support terrorism.
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Some people can distinguish between an ethnic group such as the Palestinians and a terrorist organization such as Hamas.
Racist much?
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There have been no elections in Gaza since 2006
At that point, Hamas won on a plurality of 41%.
Hardly overwhelming.
Today, 50% of the population are under 18 & 64% of adults say they do not feel it is safe to criticise Hamas.
So enough of your nonsense, though frankly, even if a large majority had voted Hamas in a recent election, that would still leave a lot of people who are against Hamas.
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Hamas are not their elected representatives. They are a brutal dictatorship who rule Gaza with violence and fear, including slaughter & rape of their own.
You’ve seen in unarguable terms how little Hamas cares for life. They’ll exploit the suffering and deaths of Gazans in their war against Israel. How can you possibly continue to think Gazans are able to “speak up” against Hamas after what you’ve seen Hamas do?
Maybe the Israelis should speak up about Nehtanyahu too…
Who would you elect after being displaced into the world’s largest prison by someone who took over your home 60 years ago?
Not defending the actions of Hamas, but such an outcome was more or less inevitable. Hate breeds hate.
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By having better intelligence?
Though mostly I think these governments are just aligning with the wishes of the US, coupled with the knowledge that they can afford to be cavalier with the rights of citizens who might have attended, and… they want to avoid the complexity of policing this.
It helps if they’re already pretty authoritarian to begin with.
I think it’s more ideological and about geopolitical power. Maintaining western hegemony in the M.E. requires Israel, and every western nation has dumped a ton of resources into building the nation so no one wants to have that be for nothing, even though Israel has become everything it claims to be against.
Israel will get a blank check as long as the Middle East itself is in turmoil. Bit of a perverse incentive, but it explains both the wests support for the genocidal regime in Israel and the behaviour of Israel itself.
Israel also has some of the most sophisticated intelligence capabilities on the planet. Consider that Ghislaine Maxwell has connections to Israeli intelligence. Having evidence of a bunch of politicians and powerful people having sex with children tends to create a certain element of influence.
Jewish schools in Europe are closed today. Synagogues and other places where Jews gather have been evaluating the risk they face and acting as they need to. Some might say that the claims Hamas has called for a “Day of Rage” today are internet rumours but we have to take them seriously because the consequences of failing to are so severe.
There will be calls for jihad against Jews. There always are. As emboldened as militants and wanna-bes are by Hamas’, as they see it, success in killing Jews (and yes, I chose that designation specifically and intentionally) last weekend, it won’t be different now. There have been and will be calls for jihad against us.
When Palestine attacks Israel, antisemitic violence around the world increases. When Israel attacks Palestine, antisemitic violence around the world increases. This is what diaspora Jews live with.
Bomb threats on diaspora Jewish organisations started last Saturday. Diaspora Jews have been on high alert all week.
The majority of people at those demonstrations will be peaceful. But some won’t. Some will use the gatherings to foment violence against diaspora Jews. There’s no right answer in this. If you’re affected and chaffing at the denial of your right to shout in numbers, please consider that this ban will very likely save lives, especially in France. Please don’t dismiss this just because those lives are diaspora Jews and you don’t much care about us.
Edit: Notices the number of people who have convinced themselves that putting French Jews in danger is alright, cause you know, Palestine. Terror attacks against Jews in France is a thing, you know. Done in the name of freeing Palestine, as if French Jews had the power to change anything in another country.
This ban also legitimises the idea that supporting Palestine is equal to supporting terrorism or antisemitism, which also can increase hate crimes against them (and Arab people in general)
This ban will allow the Israeli state to continue murdering an entire people unchecked
What a bizarre and unfounded leap. Your assertion is completely and entirely false.
The median age in Gaza is 18…half the population is literal children because no one lives long enough to grow old. The reality of what Israel is doing to the people in Palestine is not something that can be hidden from and handwaved away any more.
You underestimate people’s capacity for handwaving atrocities away, especially when it comes to Muslims
Unfortunately most western states have completely ignored for years the atrocities committed against the people in Palestine. Not allowing these kinds of protests also prevents people in those countries from voicing their rejection of their governments position, making it more difficult for those governments to change their postures.
Putting pressure on Israel’s allies is for most people the only way they have to support Palestinians
Am against this ban, but I do not see how protests in France would be any kind of check on the actions of the Israeli military in Palestine.
The Israeli government is able to pursue its horrible policies because of a lack of support for palastinian people.
Preventing protest in powerful nations stops public opinion changing. Public opinion allows the political establishment to continue to avoid historical responsibility.
If western nations drop support of Israel and start using sanctions etc it would be much harder to destroy Gaza.
I feel like this would need protests well beyond the scale I can imagine any of the populations in these nations mounting, and that they’d have to be backed by widespread blockades & strikes.
But mostly that very little would slow Israel down, short of the US intervening militarily in the next few hours.
Larger scale action takes smaller scale first
Of course.
I guess I’ve become very pessimistic over the years, which is not good.
Like I’ll still turn out to stuff, but with none of the hope in my heart I’d have had in the past.
I understand, today my own nation votes to slap down a hand outstretched in peace and warmth. In my own state police deploy anti terror powers to crack down on anyone attending a rally against Israeli militancy.
But if we give up nothing will improve, and everything good we have started small and grew into unstoppable movements.
Seems disingenuous to mention this without bringing up the fact that anti Palestinian and anti Muslim attacks and hate have also risen.
I hate my country so fucking much. What happened to us! We keep on saying that this country is at risk of fascism when it’s already quietly there! It keeps getting worse. And all of this is because Islamophobia is so bad here, it’s basically a nationalized mental illness at this point…
France goes mask-off fascism
what mask
First they strip people’s internet privacy, then they ban VPNs, now protests…
What the hell is happening to France?
France banned VPNs? I doubt that. How am I supposed to work from home for my company?
Not yet, it’s just a proposal for now.
I think banks would oppose that
I can guarantee you that is never going to happen. You ban VPNs and all the companies R&D departments will leave. A VPN is an essential part of corporate data infrastructure. If a company is unable to secure intellectual property, it will move it elsewhere, leaving only sales and manufacturing, at best.
And since France is in Schengen, I’m sure other European countries would love to get those corporate taxes for themselves.
They didn’t. They considered it.
A Jewish teacher was killed by her student in France today because of Hamas’ call for a “Day of Rage”.
There’s little doubt of the attacker motive given he invoked his god, and given the timing. But nothing suggest the teacher was personally targeted for his faith. He may have been the first person the attacker ran into.
There have been a few articles about Dominique Bernard, the teacher who fell victim. AFP/Sud Ouest talk about his professional life and character. France Bleu says students like him, and that he interposed himself between the attacker and others. Neither suggest he was targeted for his faith, or even mention his faith at all.
Someone died because of the Day of Rage. Apologies for my error. But go on, make sure we all know he was a great Catholic. Cause you know, if he’d been Jewish, there would be plenty on the platform making justifications for it.
I only mentioned his familiy’s faith because you mentioned it. This murder is front page news and talked at length by medias, but your comment is the first time I heard of his supposed faith, so I went and checked.
It would be interesting to understand the motivation. This might be an attack on the school as an institution, which affects people of all faith.
There’s no justification for killing innocent civilians, Jewish or not.
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French police are guarding the homes of leading MPs as fears grow of antisemitic violence triggered by Israel’s war with Hamas.
French President Emmanuel Macron was due to give a TV address on Wednesday in a bid to prevent the war from escalating tensions.
Interior Minister Gérald Darmanin told France Inter radio on Thursday that “more than 100 antisemitic acts” had been recorded since hostilities broke out.
A member of President Emmanuel Macron’s Renaissance party, she had parliament lit this week in the colours of the Israeli flag in response to the Hamas attack on Israel and called a minute’s silence before an Assembly session on Tuesday.
Ms Braun-Pivet also announced that Maryam Abu Daqqa, a member of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP), would be banned from attending a documentary screening in parliament next month.
Mr Scholz also announced that pro-Palestinian group Samidoun, which was pictured handing out sweets in the Neukölln area of Berlin to celebrate the Hamas attack, would be banned.
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Come on France don’t be a player hater
