- cross-posted to:
- enoughmuskspam@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- enoughmuskspam@lemmy.world
The Moral Case for No Longer Engaging With Elon Musk’s X::The former Twitter is incentivizing violent content, which will only become worse to stand out to users.
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Then stop already. Stop mentioning the name. Stop posting articles about it. Stop sharing articles about it on other social media.
You know what’s immoral? Posting ragebait articles about a platform because you know users will engage.
I dunno’, kinda’ sounds similar to, “racism would be over if you’d just shut up about it.”
X and Elon don’t magically disappear because you choose to ignore them.
And it would be similar to that if racism was a business that survived based on engagement.
I mean… Isn’t it? Racism is very self-perpetuating. Especially when it’s allowed over other forms of distasteful speech.
I don’t think so. Racism being self perpetuating means it will exist even if we stop talking about it and will probably just be worse because even well meaning folk can be racist if they’re not aware of it.
X on the other hand stops existing if we stop sending it traffic and just let it die.
Nah, self-perpetuating is not the same as spontaneously inevitable. Just like species can go extinct despite all life self-perpetuating in some way.
The people on Lemmy are likely to agree not to use it, and that just makes it more stupid to say, “don’t talk about it.”, since it won’t further its demise at all.
Well, it seems like racism has unfortunately failed to go extinct so I’m not quite sure what you’re getting at there but I’m probably missing something.
I don’t think everyone has agreed not to use it? The more it gets talked about and spread the more people are drawn to the platform. Why do you think Musk has successfully made sure the site has been in the headlines constantly? I’m not saying we have to all stop talking about it and pretend it doesn’t exist. But maybe we don’t need multiple articles every day posted across multiple communities.
Anyway, doesn’t really matter what I think. It keeps getting posted and upvoted so I guess we’ll just have to live with it.
People are not drawn to the platform in a positive way by talking about it negatively on Lemmy…
It’s like you idiots take basic expressions like, “any attention is good attention” and turn it in to a fucking axiom for life. It IS NOT TRUE in all contexts. Fucking grow up and realize generalities are SPECIFICALLY NOT TRUE in all cases. Ever. Generalities are always fucking stupid to use to judge specific occurrences unless it is a quintessential example. Which very VERY few things are quintessential examples of, “any attention is good attention.”.
Something that’s self-perpetuating doesn’t extinguish without being actively stamped out. Noticing it’s still around is the most basic observation that means nothing about it except that it’s still an existant problem.
If you think it isn’t, you clearly haven’t been paying attention to all of racism in general and hypercapitalist neofascism in particular.
If everyone shuts up about racism, then racism will be worse. If everyone stopped talking about twitter, then twitter will die. It’s not the same thing at all. Not even close.
You are mixing “talking about Twitter” with “being on Twitter”. If nobody on Lemmy or Mastodon said a single word about Twitter ever again… it would still outnumber them by hundreds of millions users. I don’t like it, but that’s still how it is. But consequently, ragging on it is not going to recruit people who left for the Fediverse.
But if you mean making everyone on Twitter to shut up in general, well, easier said than done.
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Nah. That doesn’t make a bit of sense, that’s stretching those generalizations to the breaking point. How is talking negatively of it going to make it more appealing to people who already left mainstream social media out of dissatisfaction. Who do you think this person is who’s like “I had enough of Twitter, but now that they said it’s vile and falling apart I absolutely must go back there”?
Even if the average person on Facebook could vaguely feel interested in it as a talking point, which is already a strange logic, here it doesn’t seem likely or meaningfully impactful.
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Yes overall but even then it’s not so cut and dry. Think of, say, queer artists who depends on this to have a living, or minority activists who need it to be heard, to push back against the same hate spreading across it. If they simply up and leave before building up an audience elsewhere they’ll just end up worse for it. For activists, even if they have other platforms, they still consider what will happen in the wider picture if a major platform like this is left to bigotry and toxicity unchallenged, and those who aren’t bothered by it.
Sometimes taking the moral high ground is a luxury. Given the way some people criticize the irony of minorities who still rely on it, I don’t think they really get how complicated the matter is.
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The difference is that racists are usually racist due to a moral stance, not because it makes them money; ignoring them means we’ll hear about it less but it won’t actually go away. Clickbait/ragebait, on the other hand, isn’t a moral viewpoint - it’s meant to bring a person money via exposure/engagement, so less engagement leads to less money which leads to less bait because it’s no longer working.
I dunno’, you’d find plenty of economic justification if you go back and read why the confederacy got started. Or why Germany went a little crazy in early 1900’s…
While it is correct to logically dismiss the actual arguments of rage bait, it is purely foolish to pretend that it has no tangible effects worth counteracting all the same.
To say these things aren’t even worth talking about in general is akin stepping aside for bad actors to take over.
It’s not “x” it’s called Twitter.
This is a good case for deadnaming.Corporate deadnaming is the only good deadnaming.
Facebook also only deserves to be called Meta as a reminder that they rebranded into a failed trend and lost billions because of it.
I dunno. Racism isn’t entirely manifested by one man. He’s just one more bucket of piss in a sea of piss. Fuck him. We can at any time choose to ignore him. Choose to ignore his shit app. He doesn’t matter to any equation, he’s just an annoying rich person struggling with their addiction to child pornography. Wups did I say the silent part out loud. Shit.
What you say is completely correct for engaging with his platform.
Not about not talking about the rise of bigoted morons in general. That is sticking your head in the sand.
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What the hell are you talking about? Acknowledging that black people and other minorities have had a hard time in the past that leads to present continued struggle IS NOT racism… It’s acknowledging reality.
What IS racist is saying the behavior is innate to the race, not that minorities have consequently received the short end of the economic stick.
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If you cannot understand the difference between recognizing the past hardships people in general have faced and continue to face and making assumptions about specific people you don’t know … you are literally too stupid to understand racism or privilege. Congratulations on being pathetically stupid.
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Well kinda, except for these articles that pop now and then in my timeline, I haven’t heard of XformerlyTwitter for a while.
It was fun for a few weeks, joking about what bulls**t idea Musk had during the weekend with colleagues, but after a while the joke was a bit repetitive.
It’s not news because he joked about it. It’s news because he’s flippantly doing it with production.
While some of the same words appear in these two things, they are nothing alike.
The debate over whether recognizing racism can help us eliminate it has nothing to do with an unhinged billionaire who uses shock tactics to generate PR, and the bottom-feeding publications who give it to him by stoking our disgust.
No, it’s very much similar. You’re saying don’t even talk about it, when the article is about how it is a corrupted service. A service that at least used to have global reach. If a service is a globally used resource, it’s kinda’ institutionalized.
Since when did ignoring institutionalized injustice ever fix it? Never. It never gets fixed in the dark.
I understand the concept of not feeding trolls, but do not misjudge and accidentally ask people to ignore villains.
It’s a corrupted service, therefore it’s a service, therefore it’s an institution, therefore it’s institutionalized injustice….
Feeling a little loose after all that stretching? I guess the policies of every website company in the world now constitute institutionalized injustice. I’ll use that phrase next time I’m appealing the Facebook modbot.
I wouldn’t say we should never talk about Twitter and it’s impact on our world. I will say it is a media circus which is paraded about far, far too often to its corrupt owners benefit. And it needs to have less attention than it is getting like a fire needs less air.
Way to treat an association as an exact replica… I’m trying to put bread crumbs down, not rope them together. Stop pretending you do not know what an alegory is.
If you understand the general topic should not be shunned … why are you speaking on behalf of shunning it?
I answered that. Last paragraph. Stop spinning wild extrapolations out of your ass for a second and just read some hard text.
I’m sure if we just ignore rich and powerful people, they’ll go away.
They won’t. But complaining about them on Lemmy and Bloomberg is empowering them.
I get your point that major media outlets constantly talking about them is empowering them, but pretending that Lemmy talking about it has any effect whatsoever is vastly overestimating how consequential this place is.
I know a lot of people here are just sick to hear of the matter but lets not pretend that not talking about it is a moral stance.
Lol. What?
[CITATION NEEDED]
Twitter has millions of users. Not talking about its issues clearly won’t solve the problem.
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It is a sight to behold. There is a certain class of people that don’t know who they are without Twitter because they measure their worth in followers and whatever influence that brings them. They are definitely going through all the stages of grief. Many of those types work in the media, hence all the articles hemming and hawing about whether to stay on Twitter or not.
For those of us that don’t have our egos entangled with the site, the writing was on the wall pretty early on. Twitter, or X, is dead and not worth our time. I’m sure those of us on Lemmy are especially capable of sniffing out the moment a social network turns sour.
The moral case for just shutting the hell up about X finally for fucks sake.
I’ll shut up about it when it quits being relevant.
Is it relevant? Maybe I’m just being a grumpy old man but literally the only time I ever think about it is when it’s posted about on here.
Tell that to OP. Oh, wait…
Back before Apollo was killed I had the words “Elon” and “Trump” filtered out. I just never saw these rage posts in the first place. Man, I’d love to see that feature in a Lemmy client. Anyone know if it exists?
I’m new to Lemmy but I believe Boost for Lemmy allows you to filter on keywords.
Thanks I’ll check it out
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
Stop posting about Amongus! (loud warning)
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Posting ragebait articles about a platform because you know users will engage.
Lol irony.
This is your daily reminder to engage and boost Twitter alternatives such as Mastodon. It’s not enough to ignore Twitter. We must build communities to draw in users, show them social media can exist without Elon or Zuck. Only when good alternatives exist, with content and people sought after, do users feel safe to abandon old platforms.
Firefish is my favourite, the design is fantastic, and I can read all of Mastodon on it. Very enjoyable and everyone is quite welcoming.
I made an account on Firefish as well. A bit of an adjustment after Mastodon. But my Mastodon account has been untouched since.
I think it’s just a very pretty design! For some reason I can’t explain it’s adorable.
I get that. I feel it still needs a bit of polish. It’s amazing but has some rough edges to work out. Sadly it probably won’t catch up to Mastodon. Mastodon has too much of a head start. The nice thing about the fediverse is that it doesn’t matter though. I can use the less popular option and still connect with the popular one.
Mastodon is never going to be as addictive without that algorithm. You can’t just replace one with the other when what you’re hooked on is the outage. What we really need here is regulation.
I made a burner to see for myself after using it for work a few years ago. It’s a complete dumpster fire now, way worse than before. Bots and shitty animated gambling ads everywhere. Porn bots and scammers are trying to follow you every 2 seconds. Elon’s dipshit musings/ragebait are forced into your feed even when you block him. Any tweets you make get zero engagement. remaining accounts are either bots, racists, fascists, or creators and celebrities moaning and/or hemming and hawing about leaving all the time because muh ego. It’s not even worth witnessing the spectacle.
It’s also fucking straight up broken half the time. Mastodon is a breath of fresh air in comparison even pre-Elon. Wish more would use it.
You forgot one major thing: the porn has left in droves.
Truth. Total ghost town now.
The forced elon spam reeks of insecurity. I thought the whole reason behind being extremely rich was not giving a fuck about what the world thinks, yet here we are.
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I’ve never used Twitter, but X has never been better—250+mg per pill, that’s three times what it was in the early 00s!
Lead by example. At least stop pretending that this news article/opinion piece belongs in a technology.
I love these websites posting, “It’s time to leave X” while also providing bait articles that just describe a Twitter conversation between two celebrities.
Ironically, there’s a “Share with Twitter” button on the left side of the article
Agreed.
Agreed
I joined Twitter fairly recently as Machine Learning Twitter is/was a thing, and I wanted to stay abreast of news from people like Andrej Karpathy, Chris Olah, Andrew Ng etc., especially since r/MachineLearning went down the shitter.
But I can’t even - I log on and just instantly see ragebait posts from Daily Mail talking heads and bullshit.
Are there any better alternatives for this purpose?
Believe it or not, for tech deep cuts, Mastodon is better.
If you know of a better ML related instance than sigmoid.social let me know, but none of those influential figures I mentioned post there, and the discussion is pretty much non-existent.
If there are better alternatives entirely depends on how active those people are on Mastodon, Bluesky or even Threads. (Not sure on activity on Bluesky, as I haven’t got an invite yet…)
I’m a PHP developer, many people (but not all) in the community crosspost on Twitter and Mastodon, so Mastodon is a good alternative for me personally.
There is a Mastodon instance sigmoid.social for this ostensible purpose, but it’s pretty dead.
The fediverse provides an alternative for people who care about using ethical products. Haven’t tried threads/bluesky but they seem like more of the same. Unfortunately I don’t think people care about the ethics of their micro-blogging platform; their biggest priority is having the largest soap box to shout from.
I’m not sure I’d call lemmy ethical considering how much genocide denial there is.
I think you missed the part where the person you are replying to is talking about the ethics of the platform itself, not the ethical viewpoint of the users using the platform nor the personal views of the developers.
Platforms don’t have ethics. They’re software, not people.
Platforms have the ethics of the people administrating them
And designing them. Anything coded has the biases of the people who made them baked in.
Software is shipped with a license. There are licenses that are more or less ethical.
Do I have bad news about twitter… At least no one profits from it here
Lemmy isn’t one entity. It’s several different websites. That would be like calling Linux unethical because some people use it for weapons research… it’s open source, so people can do whatever they want with it. Douglas Crockford famously added "“The Software shall be used for Good, not Evil” to the license for JSON, but it was determined by various people to be unenforceable and not compatible with free software licensing.
Does anyone here actually use it? I literally never made an account
I have an account that I use exclusively to DM companies for support. I found out that I can get help quicker and more easily than going through their website or call center hoops.
I know a lot of people relying on it for sharing research papers and finding them. It’s depressing to not have an alternative.
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Maybe it’s time to slowly transition to Fediverse?
It would be nice. The major issue is the network that people created there. It takes years to build it, and you won’t have it back on the Fediverse.
If torturing primates isn’t enough for u what is,???
paying for twitter
That says so much about u that animal torture is ok but don’t they dare demand $8 from u.
Oh no im not saying that about myself. left a long time ago when he started rate limiting and funding right leaning mfs. I’m just trying to imagine wby people stay on a service like that. I kinda hope elon starts charging for twitter so when i see who actually pays for it, its gonna be much easier to cut them off.
Do as you say please
What does that mean? The article says Twitter is “In this article” because it’s about Twitter, and he notes that writing about Twitter is part of his job, but he deleted the app from his phone because he’s revolted by the direction it’s gone, and the article is basically a screed about how much he hates it now.
I deleted that shit months ago.
Damn, this is actually quite compelling. I knew X/Twitter was bad, but didn’t realize just how bad it has become. Thanks for posting.
I still use X for work and have noticed an increase in the amount of hate speech and racist content. Its started appearing on my feed.
Problem is legacy Twitter still has huge scale so it’s not so simple to switch to something else if you need a big audience. It will take time.
I just wish the artists would leave, but no other social media allows porn too.
Mastodon totally allows NSFW content. Maybe Threads doesn’t, but why trade one deranged billionaire tech overlord for another?
Mastodon has some problems. It’s slow, the “instances” concept is confusing, discoverability is poor, and the UI isn’t as nice as Threads.
Still worth making the jump for the sake of community governance.
Twitter was destroyed by the governance problem. It proves how we can’t ignore the governance structure of the places we invest our time anymore.
But yeah, I’m very disappointed how many people who hate Musk’s changes to twitter – even trans people – are staying there.
Mastodon totally allows NSFW content.
Just search on the #NSFW hashtag, can’t miss it.
Many artists have been hedging their bets the last few months, mirroring their content on Mastodon and BlueSky, so that when Twitter/X/Whatever it’s called now goes under/is closed/goes subscription only/is locked behind the blockchain, they don’t lose their fans, supporters, donators, and commissioners.
Yeah, but that’s the thing, most of them have not abandoned Twitter, they have just created accounts elsewhere. For now, at least on the case of nsfw artists, leaving Twitter is unfeasible.
They tend to mirror the content on other sites, so they can further grow their communities there too. Can you explain to me how Twitter remains integral when the content is available elsewhere too?
It’s integral to them because the bulk of their audience, including crowdfunders and commissioners and other potential paying customers, remains there. It can be a difference between having a viable artistic career or needing another job. Xitter is in clear decline and worse by the day, but it still outnumbers the alternatives by hundreds of millions of active users.
Then the solution is for people who like art to accept invites and follow them on BlueSky.
Or to use Mastodon.
it still outnumbers the alternatives by hundreds of millions of active users.
Hundreds of millions of those active users don’t care about art unless Elon’s stealing it.
It’s definitely better for them to move out but that’s a whole process, if they want to try to bring even a fraction of their audience along.
Hundreds of millions of those active users don’t care about art unless Elon’s stealing it.
Eh, by that measure there’s nowhere to go, because even here I see some people with a wild disregard towards art.
But really, there are people who care or those artists wouldn’t ever have had a career to begin with.
Yeah but Bluesky is invite only still.
Do you need an invite?
You got one to give out? I’ll take one if so
Sent
If you have an extra invite code, I’d appreciate one too if it’s not too much trouble. Thanks!
Sent
Still many who don’t, though, and they’re the main reason I still occasionally go back.
Like who?
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