Speaking as a straight cis male who’s on the verge of asexuality, it’s been incredibly difficult and oftentimes alienating having discussions of sexuality and sexual insecurities with my other cis male friends because a lot of the discussion tends to veer into vulgarity or jesting. Then there’s the conversations you have with your partners and sometimes some of those partners implying that you’re not ‘man enough’, etc.
I understand that a lot of this is due to toxic masculinity but I’ve gotta say, it’s been pretty tough.
Talking about serious emotional issues or relationship problems with other men is pretty much uniformly crap. Most men are conditioned to not open up, or prefer immature viewpoints about all of that - or are just immature and crude and actually think various stupid and abusive things about women. Unfortunately some women actually prefer that.
How is it relevant if some women supposedly prefer that?
To show the problem isn’t all one-sided
I don’t understand how this makes the problem less one-sided.
When an individual thinks abusive and stupid things about a group of people, it’s that’s individuals responsibility and issue.
That doesn’t change just because you can maybe find a person who prefers you thinking stupid and abusive shit.
A single example is enough to prove something exists.
Decent question really. I guess I was saying that while it’s been disappointing for me, it’s considered desirable and a good attitude by some people.
Perhaps you think too low of yourself? There will always be people who will prefer you to think this or that. Your parents, some dickhead politicians, your peers, … You don’t need everybody to like what you think.
I didn’t say it affected my sense of self worth.
Maybe you have unrealistic expectations. Have you tried thinking even lower of yourself?
I’ve considered it, even tried that, but it didn’t really seem to be of benefit to anyone.
Yeah, I hate how girls will be disgusted when it’s somehow suggested you’d want to have sex with them, while at the same time, I don’t feel like I’m even supposed to have an opinion.
It’s like, I’m a man, not in a relationship, not gay and not good at pretending I’ve never heard of sexuality, so if I don’t want to have sex with a girl, that must mean I find her extremely ugly.
“Whatever… stop talking to me. You clearly just want to get into my pants. What?!? You DON’T want to sleep with me? Why the eff not?! Am I not good enough for you? Not pretty enough?!”
Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
I married my highschool girlfriend, so I’m definitely not in the know about the dating scene… but this sounds very incel-y to me.
If you’re objectively getting this kind of response, it may be that you’re pursuing the wrong type of person, or you should work on your approach. Every person is an individual, you gotta treat each person as an individual.
I’m pretty sure, that was a hyperbole, not an actual, verbatim response. Most girls won’t actually say these things, because that would say a lot more (that they’re conceited). But you can often tell that they’re overthinking it from their reaction, which is of course difficult to portray with words.
But yeah, it should be clarified that girls are not to blame for this. Society as a whole, both men and women, are involved in passing this non-sense continually onwards.
I don’t think the person was saying they would really say that they are saying that they are pointlessly calling out the elephant in the room. As a teenage girl if you aren’t a gargoyle literally every teenage boy is thinking about you sexually because that is the level of hormonal reality. It’s like saying stop talking to me you just have 2 eyes and 2 arms.
Not if you are old enough. The only nice part about being in my early 40s is that when I tell someone that, “yes, I’m that picky/shallow,” they seem to just accept it and move on. I’m old enough that when I tell someone “this is the bare minimum that I expect,” they accept that and move on.
The only strange part for me at this point is that the bare minimum I expect is that you a) are able to take care of your own needs, just as I do, b) are keeping up with your exercise routine, and will be willing to help both of us in pushing each other to better heights, and c) you aren’t vapid, and can actually hold a conversation. I’m not interested in being your professor/father/educator exclusively. I want to challenge you, just as much as you challenge me.
Literally every potential partner I have met cannot fulfill these, IMHO, pretty basic requirements. The only real benefit of being this shallow/picky is that now people finally respect my choices.
a sounds reasonable. But b and c sound like big expectations where I would doubt that I could fulfill them all the time and then I would disappoint. So these two points sound to me like a lot of pressure.
They are a lot of pressure. They are the same pressure I put on myself, so yeah. Not many people push themselves the way I do, so not many people would even want to live my lifestyle. Especially as it isn’t very rewarding in a material sense.
Ah then it is fine. No judgement. I just wanted to make sure you don’t underestimate their implications and your wording sounded a bit like you consider them the normal baseline.
If you want to challenge them then how are b) and c) prerequisites? Where’s the challenge when it’s already there? If you want to be challenged then are you ready to be challenged in areas other than that? What if someone wants you to challenge to b) eat healthy home-made food every day and c) develop the grace and skill to tame a social situation with smalltalk, instead of insisting that every verbal utterance be a philosophical dissertation?
Neither of your “challenges” are such. I already do both things by myself. I want to improve myself, not just maintain.
What happens when you two disagree on what would actually be an improvement?
A discussion, I would imagine. That’s how I deal with disagreements between myself and others .
I mean, it may depend on the context, but I think it’s pretty reasonable to feel uncomfortable if it’s apparent that someone is thinking about having sex with you while you’re just trying to have a conversation.
I’m not at all trying to say that I don’t think that’s reasonable. I’m complaining that I don’t feel like I have an influence on the matter.
Sometimes, you accidentally say something with a double meaning that can be interpreted sexually and it’s the girl who points that out and then assumes you’re thinking perverted things, because she’s been told anyone with a penis does that all the time.
I am annoyed by that, because I’m a big fan of girls and don’t want to convey that they’re just meat to entertain my sexuality. If you’re reading me as a tone-deaf pervert, that will not make sense.
From the other side, for a lot of women don’t just hear that people do that (though there are many firsthand accounts), they experience it. Even if you don’t mean anything by it, they’ve likely been the victim of enough purposefully suggestive comments that they’re sensitive to it. It’s not really your fault, but it’s not theirs, either.
Out of curiosity, do you have some examples of misconstrued phrases?
Oh yeah, for sure. I hate all the slimy idiots that can’t speak with a woman without perverted comments and everyone who defends them.
I did have a specific example in mind when I wrote the above, but it happened in German, so the double meaning won’t make quite as much sense:
I was working with a lady colleague on wrapping articles and whenever we had completed one, we placed it into a larger carton for shipping. Each of us had our own larger carton that we filled.Well, and one time, I went to put my article away, but got shortly confused and then exclaimed “Oh, now I just wanted to shove it into yours.”.
And then, yeah, she asked, if I’m aware what I just said, and I replied that I am, but I only noticed after I had said it. Enqueue awkward silence.
So, there was no actual problem. She was no fan of me having said that, but she understood that this happens and knew me already well enough that I was honest about it.
I just thought about it afterwards and realized that I didn’t even actually desire traditional, penetrative sex with her.
I do think sexuality in general is cool, as in two consenting adults making each other feel good. And she is gorgeous. She often talked about how she visited the gym and worked on her body and one time admitted that she felt self-conscious about it.
So, there was a certain curiosity what her body looks like and I would have loved to tell her that she’s a fucking dumbass for being self-conscious about it. And yeah, sure, some amount of instinctive sexual desire will be involved. I can’t shut that part of my brain off completely.But all of that is ignoring that I’m a fucking dumbass, too. I’m also self-conscious about my body. And I don’t train, I actually have a reason to be self-conscious. As incumbent of the male gender role, I’m not supposed to, but that doesn’t sit well with me.
I would need a lot of trust to believe that a girl actually wants to have sex with me, both because I don’t find my body desirable and because I care about consent beyond yes or no. A girl enduring sex with me, just because she likes me in other ways, that sounds like the worst kind of hell for me.But yeah, none of that mattered in that situation.
It’s cool my man, just find a partner with a similar sex drive or be open to atypical relationships. My wife has a fairly low sex drive, and mine’s not crazy but the disparity can be rough.
There’s almost certainly groups of people who feel like you do online, so if you want to, I’m sure you can find a place that feels super accepting.
But yeah, toxic masculinity/patriarchy is a bitch.
As an asexual male, I totally understand where you are coming from.
I generally don’t talk about anything like that with other men of any stripe. I have a few very understanding female friends who don’t judge and even then when I talk about it, it feels like I’m handing them a burden.
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It’s not a stereotype when scientific studies tend to confirm it.
Sex drive: Theoretical conceptualization and meta-analytic review of gender differences
The meta-analysis revealed a stronger sex drive in men compared to women, with a medium-to-large effect size, g = 0.69, 95% CI [0.58, 0.81]. Men more often think and fantasize about sex, more often experience sexual affect like desire, and more often engage in masturbation than women.
Across many different studies and measures, men have been shown to have more frequent and more intense sexual desires than women, as reflected in spontaneous thoughts about sex, frequency and variety of sexual fantasies, desired frequency of intercourse, desired number of partners, masturbation, liking for various sexual practices, willingness to forego sex, initiating versus refusing sex, making sacrifices for sex, and other measures. No contrary findings (indicating stronger sexual motivation among women) were found. Hence we conclude that the male sex drive is stronger than the female sex drive.
Stereotypes often tend to have some truth to them, that’s why they became Stereotypes.
The trick is to never to assign a stereotype to an individual automatically.
Eh, I find it to be pointless to try and suppress my Instincts in that. Like I automatically put people in a box or assign them some stereotypes and imho that’s fine. But one has to be open on being proven wrong on these things and accept that.
Wild take
It is still a stereotype that “boys only want sex”. Those studies suggest a higher sexual drive on average, not that it applies for all boys, and certainly not that it’s the only thing boys want.
Our whole culture is about conditioning men and women to get this result though.
Maybe so, probably research exists on that topic too. Google scholar is kinda a fun place sometimes…. If ur nerdy like me at least.
Purely speaking from my anecdotal experiences, I have far more instances of getting aroused than my partners, but their sexual preferences are WAY more extreme. Most of the girls I’ve been with have wanted extremely rough sex, which I’m not even remotely into. They’re also way way more voyeuristic than I ever will be, often wanting to share sexy photos online for the entire world to enjoy or showing interest in making online porn. So yeah, I want to bang more often, but they definitely are far more deviant than I am.
You’re a freak magnet, baby!
Yeah, there’s a simple reason for this: men have more testosterone than women, and testosterone has been known to heighten the more “animalistic”/cave man characteristics in men.
One of my college roommates took anabolic steroids and he told me once “dude, it’s wild, all I want to do is eat red (meaning rare) meat and fuck!”
I wonder if these findings have been supported by female lead research.
g = 0.69
Nice.
And they say that women are hornier than men, shaking my smh my head
i lol’d out loud
Stereotypes are valid first-order approximations!
Just wanted to add that you can find the second-order alpha male energy correction by calculating ∑_{m≠n}(|<ψ_n(0)|V|ψ_m(0)>|2)/(E_n(0) - E_m^(0)) if anyone was wondering
thats not what stigma means
Stigma male grindset
*stereotype
I wanna stereotype my balls in your mouth doesn’t quite have the same ring to it…
I’m in lesbians with you.
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Chicken isn’t vegan?
Legit question: if you’re with a guy, will he (typically) be looking forward to eventually having sex?
If you are both sexual people, I should hope you are both looking forward to it when you are both ready.
As in if you’re in a relationship with a man, will he be looking forward to having sex?
In the vast majority of cases the answer is yes, in a minority of cases the answer is that the person is asexual or simply insecure about their sexuality.
That’s a discussion you need to have with your partner if you’re questioning yourself.
That’s how relationships work
Yes. Every man ever views a relationship as a ladder with sex or at the top. Men don’t date without expecting to progress towards sex.
What about asexuals?
What about men that have respect for their SO and don’t see sex as the final goal? I mean, stay with the same person long enough and that part of the relationship will not be as important after a while, does it means the relationship is dead to the man? Because I can’t explain why people stay together for decades then.
Don’t most women have the same expectation that entering a love relationship with someone will lead to a physical relationship at some point?
You’re talking as if women didn’t have sexual desires and… Well… Maybe you don’t, but your experience isn’t the majority’s.
What about asexuals?
Nothing at all. We don’t exist. Even if we did exist we certainly wouldn’t be plotting to invade Denmark. Shh…
🤐
Fucking hell. Didn’t you get the memo about OPSEC?
Agreed fellow allosexual, Sex IS indeed OP.
… What’s that? They said OPSEC? The fuck is an OPSEC? Some new part of the queer alphabet soup that I haven’t heard of?
Sorry, that little skit played out in my head after reading your reply. It’s a weird thing when your intrusive thoughts turn to shitposting. I feel like that person on a leash meme where the thing I’m trying to control is a coked up shitpost tulpa.
It’s alright, seems you may have been missed.
OPSEC = OPerational SECurity.
Anyway Denmark has been shelved for the time being.
You’re talking as if women didn’t have sexual desires and…
I didn’t say they didn’t . I’m not sure why you would think that.
What about asexuals?
The overwhelming majority of men are neither gay nor asexual. My statement is generally correct.
What about men that have respect for their SO and don’t see sex as the final goal?
It’s either the final goal or its on the way there. Young men want sex. Sexual tension is a factor even if neither he nor she sees it as a likely thing. Failing to understand that is liable to lead to failing to apprehend human behavior which often makes no sense if we remove such tension. Men don’t just do things for love they do things for imaginary hypothetical love neither party believes will ever happen. Watch people interact sometime.
I didn't say they didn't . I'm not sure why you would think that.Well you certainly don’t talk like your believe that women are capable of seeing sex as something to expect from their relationship!
My statement is generally correct.Based on zero research and pure anecdotes…
It's either the final goal or its on the way there.Oh so now it’s not necessarily a goal anymore… Funny that when someone argues a bit you change your tune but you’re still unable to admit that your might simply be wrong and generalizing based on some bad experiences.
Young men want sex.Oh so it’s only young men now… You’re moving that goalpost so much, take care not to hurt your back!
Men don't just do things for love they do things for imaginary hypothetical love neither party believes will ever happen.Nice if you to put everyone in the same basket, maybe you should watch people interact sometimes, I’m a man with plenty of women friends and there’s no sexual tension or desire there.
I don’t know what kind of relationships you’ve had with men in the past but it’s no more fair of you to generalize like that then it would be for me to say all women end up cheating just because I’ve known more women who did so then men.
I’ve also been treated like crap by some women, should I start hating on them and talking like they all want the same thing? Heck, all women want is men’s money. There, we’re on the same level now, how does it feel? Do you think men who believe that are idiots? Well, women who think men only want sex are idiots too.
I don’t know what kind of relationships you’ve had with men
I’m a straight man. If you think I’m being unfair to men I’m not. I’m just capable of looking at myself and others critically and fairly and not bullshitting myself by pretending to cold and saintly virtue. To be without passion or drive is neither virtuous or desirable. I don’t need to research men to understand what it is to be a man especially a young man. I’m sorry you are so confused that you can’t even have this conversation maturely.
If that’s how you feel about the people around you and you can’t have a relationship with a woman without seeing sex as the end goal, the only person that needs maturing here is you bud.
It’s like you haven’t heard of being the little spoon.
That ain’t true. You can be friends with women. You can be friends with men. Even if you are attracted to them, you can be friends with them, but the thing is, you gotta respect the friendship. It’s not all sex.
Men desire friendship for its own sake but they never stop considering sex in the equation.
gottem
yeah! the only thing i’ve wanted for a while. now was a reason to live >:(
^(sex would be a great alternative tho)
They’re badong.
I promise from now on that I will stand for the opposite… gnodab.
Let me know if you see a RadioShack.
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