Solar power and storage prices have dropped almost 90%::undefined
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85-87% reduced in last 10 years
I was still quoted 40K CAD. 20 year ROI. Not feasible for me.
If you are willing to DIY you can cut that number dramatically. Out of curiosity what was the size of the array in that quote and did it include battery storage if so how much chances are that you can cut it by anywhere from 50% to 75% if you’re willing to Simply purchase directly and install yourself. The amount that installers charge is absolutely asinine usually 50% or more of that quote is just the installation which is in the same because it’s not difficult at all. People like to act scared like oh that’ll be difficult or hard or dangerous, it’s extremely simple you’re dealing with DC which is very straightforward everything is very clearly labeled on that equipment and it’s quite simple to do yourself
Is there a go-to source for diy product and instructions? I’m interested in doing this in the near future.
I can’t think of any One-Stop shop for literally everything, but there is a lot of great material out there both on forums and on YouTube. If you take it one step at a time and look at each individual piece of the installation you’ll be able to find fantastic instructions for all of them fairly easily.
If you are in the US I recommend purchasing from signature solar, they have a lot of great bundles that will both save you some money and get you everything you need. I’d also say they have the best battery storage options, their rack mount batteries and their new wall mount battery are both fantastic and very easy to work with. They also sell solar panels by the pallet which helps you get a nice large array at a good price.
If I had to pick the hardest part it would just be making sure you get the grounding right on the inverter, if you’re not careful it’s pretty easy to end up with a ground Loop which isn’t particularly dangerous but it will cause lots of weird little issues like flickering lights and other annoyances. But it’s fairly easy to correct it it’s usually just a result of people connecting both the input and the output on the inverter as well as bonding the secondary panel to the primary panel which creates a ground loop. The solution is as simple as just don’t connect to the input power ground to the inverter only connect to the output ground so that it has to go through the ground Bond on the panels
It will definitely sound like a lot, but again if you just take each individual piece by itself it’s very straightforward very simple and you’ll be able to get it done while saving an absolute asinine amount of money compared to an installer.
I will warn you that if you try to do gridtie, which is where you’re able to send excess electricity back into the grid. That comes with a lot more red tape and can get a lot more complicated. I personally did an off-grid setup, which still uses the grid as a possible input so if my batteries are dead and there’s no sun out I can still use the power like normal it’s just not capable of sending Excess power back out into the grid so there’s a whole bunch of red tape that I don’t have to worry about.
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That doesn’t really make sense, since an off-grid inverter literally cannot backfeed. It’s essentially just a computer UPS on steroids. It accepts the grid as an input that it can pass through but it’s not possible for it to push energy back to the grid.
I mean yes if you decided to hook its output directly up to your Mains panel without separation you would be back feeding. But only for maybe a few minutes at most as you would also destroy your inverter because it has no mechanism to synchronize the output with the mains since it’s not designed to backfeed
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I’m not really sure what you are talking about, you need to synchronize both the phase of the power and the frequency. If they differ even slightly you damage your equipment. This is why when running multiple inverters in parallel they require both a Communication cable and a power sharing Cable in order to ensure that they stay perfectly synchronized. Inverters capable of doing grid tie have equipment in them to monitor the mains power and make sure that they stay synchronized with it. Whereas an off-grid inverter does not contain that equipment which is why they are generally cheaper
There are several different possible phases for 120 volt they are not all the same. And while hooking to the mains may be standard practice for something that can grid tie it is not standard practice for an off-grid inverter. You are specifically expected to have a secondary panel specifically for that inverter. The mains power will reach that secondary panel through the inverter when it’s in pass through but the panel should in no way be connected to the mains directly (other than a ground bond between the secondary panel and the mains)
With that having been said, I have no doubt that solar installers have instead opted to continue to use inverters that are capable of grid tie even in a installation that will not be backfeeding. Probably just to reduce the amount of inventory required so that they can get full purchase orders. But that doesn’t change the fact that a proper true off-grid inverter is not capable of tying into the mains without destroying itself
The fact that you say you were a solar installer, but you’re not even aware of something as simple as phases and frequency synchronization is part of the reason I feel like solar installers are wildly overpaid. You’re basically doing the bare minimum without really understanding what it is you’re doing
Is that paying cash for the solar system or financing? Financing can devastate the ROI with interest rates today. I’m looking at as long as 12 year ROI with possibly as short as 7 year ROI if I consider the USA’s federal tax incentives. My slightly southern latitude (a border state with Canada) also likely contributes to slightly higher generation results using the same equipment.
How are the government incentives in Canada? I’m super envious of your great hydro power, my neighbor.
Bruh I got quoted 50k in St. Louis last year, would take decades for roi
That can’t be for a home. If it was it was predatory nonsense. It should be a 7 or 8 year ROI with a 20-30 year service life.
Maybe not all areas have much competition driving prices down? I’m in sunny hippie California where every other house has solar.
1800sq ft home, my power bill is a few hundred in the summer, I feel there just isn’t any competition here there only 2-3 companies doing it and they’re all small
It could be that those companies are evil, or perhaps their own prices are just very high because the industry isn’t scaled up in your area. Maybe they have a really hard time hiring equalities installers, and have to ship in parts from far away.
It was like that in California 20 years ago but it has changed enormously. When you drive down the street, how many houses have solar? It’s probably 3 in 10 here. I get nonstop Facebook ads and can name about 10 companies. With this comes lower prices. But there are still cheats out there. Never work with a “no money up front” company unless you only want to enjoy 10% of the benefit of the panels. For some it may be the only option but these companies are shysty as hell.
There almost 0 solar houses here, 1 in a hundred maybe. A few businesses have been doing it lately, I’ve seen 2 gas stations and several schools in the area do it. I’d like to get it done before my backwards ass state makes it illegal or something
Ouch that sounds rough.
Well it’s the company/ies not the product
Was that recently or last year? Prices were out of control last year. Here prices have dropped almost 30% just since May.
July last year.
OK, you might be able to get offers at about half the price now then. If things are like they are here.
I calculated our ROI to about 9 years, the company however promises about 6, but I think that’s overly optimistic.
Wow. 3000 square foot home here so we had a sizable system. It was $15k USD.
Ha, mines like 1200
How much of that is installation costs?
Tell me again about how we need to build more nuclear.
We definitely need to build more nuclear.
Agreed. 1000x. Solar alone can’t save us.
Nice straw man. Nobody is arguing 100% solar.
Hence why we need nuclear as well… nice fail.
I agree that you failed with your straw man. Got anything else?
I’ll let your downvotes and my upvotes speak for themselves. You fail. Again.
Thanks, now we’ve established you have no argument apart from a straw man and the realization that most people are wrong about the need for new nuclear. You can run along now.
And we need to do reactors with liquid fuels instead of solid fuel
You realize uranium isn’t a liquid, right?
No but you can dilute it into a fluid https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_fluoride_thorium_reactor
You must construct additional nuclear.
Solar and nuclear address completely different goals.
I know. Nuclear provides base load power, which can be argued is not needed any more.
Maybe I missed some points by skimming, but the arguments made in that article are that:
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1 Australian researcher agrees with his stance
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a region had 22% of its power produced by wind at one point
I guess the claim “it can be argued” is technically proven true, but the majority opinion I keep hearing from the electrical grid engineers in the news is the opposite
And, well, sometimes it just simply is night, and sometimes the wind doesn’t blow. We don’t have the battery tech to run from storage alone
But, honestly why wouldn’t we use nuclear? It’s the one power source we have without any real downsides untill ITER finally brings positive results
And, well, sometimes it just simply is night, and sometimes the wind doesn’t blow.
Do you really think this isn’t already taken into account?
We don’t have the battery tech to run from storage alone
Nobody is making that argument, as far as I’m aware. There are plenty of ways of storing energy, e.g. pumped hydro, that would work in conjunction with battery storage.
But, honestly why wouldn’t we use nuclear?
The obvious one. It’s wildly expensive when compared to renewables, and that’s before the usual nuclear build issues of cost and schedule overruns.
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It can be argued but only poorly.
Feel free to offer corrections.
The argument is one of efficiency and load distribution. Base load power plants are capable of greater efficiency than variable ones. This is down to optimisations made around specific output levels and the infrastructure required to support said loads. For example if you know the characteristics of your power output and that of the grid you can build a transformer or switch mode power supply to bridge that specific gap. This outperforms variable input transformers in every case.
There is an argument that low efficiency doesn’t matter if the source is renewable, but this fails to take into consideration the embodied energy cost of producing renewable generators, not to mention the increased cost. An inefficient system may not produce enough energy over the course of its lifetime compared to the energy it cost to make.
Finally, most sources of renewables are intermittent and are not necessarily related to the population’s power consumption. This makes the storing of energy necessary in order to regulate supply. Storage of energy is a large source of inefficiency and one of the key areas that is being focused on. Base load plant is absolutely necessary to minimise this inefficiency as much as possible.
For a good overview I recommend this site from Penn State Uni: https://www.e-education.psu.edu/eme807/node/667
These sound more like arguments in support of a distributed power grid rather than arguments for nuclear.
You keep referring to inefficiency but in real terms nuclear is so expensive that inefficiencies in renewables are a drop in the bucket in comparison.
What do you mean by a distributed power grid? Do you mean power generation happening locally? This is already a thing and is growing in the form of Combined Heat and Power. This doesn’t get rid of the need for base load, the overall grid will still need balancing and will still have a base load unless you plan to disconnect local grids from each other in which case welcome to Texas…
Money is not the point here (even though nuclear really doesn’t cost much per kWh). I’m talking about the need to build a system that will produce more power over it’s lifetime than it costs to make. This is still something that is surprisingly close in many cases so any extra bit of inefficiency risks making the overall system pointless.
We need nuclear because it can cover 20% for 50 years, then we are out of suitable Uranium (allegedly).
That includes an expected undiscovered amount of twice of what has already been discovered.
Clearly nuclear can’t solve the climate change problem alone.
Ah yes. This is why batteries in Aus cost the same as they did 10 years ago. Capitalism working as intended
Think of all the profits you’re delivering to shareholders!
Batteries definitely do not cost the same.
Well that’s a compelling case you make there.
Have a counterpoint:
Solar battery average price in 2018 was $10k for 10kw Its now $12k for 10kw.
So you’re actually right! The price has increased.
https://www.solarchoice.net.au/blog/home-solar-battery-storage-system-prices-april-2018/
https://www.solarmarket.com.au/batteries/battery-pricing-and-sizes/
Now do again with the same manufacturer and minus the ridiculous inflation we had in the last couple of years.
You are comparing the average to a high end.
I heard the prices dropped a lot around 2012 too. Why are solar installations still rare?
They are not rare. It is the fastest growing energy production mode and is growing faster every year.
Residential installations lag behind the commercial due to installation costs, but they are blowing up as well. I can walk around my neighborhood and see a couple dozen homes with it.
It’s also highly regional. The further south in the northern hemisphere the more common.
Where I live, power companies successfully lobbied to charge a minimum fee to people using a grid-tied system (as opposed to off-grid). So now a bill that might have been lowered to $9.00 will cost the minimum fee of $30.00 (actual example). You might say, that $30.00 is still a very low power bill but how long will it take before that starts going up? They are also lobbying to buy power from homeowners for less than they charge homeowners. This was a huge turn-off for me considering the high cost of installation. When I asked the solar installer about off-grid installations, he said they weren’t allowed to offer those. Not sure why but got the impression it was a government thing and not a company thing. Not sure.
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Here in Canada prices have stayed stubbornly high. It’s the Canadian way.
I have panels that I bought for under $0.50/watt that they were clearing out at the local wholesaler years ago. Haven’t been able to find anything even near that price range since, and I’m an electrician with access to wholesale pricing.
I have found some decent prices recently but they’re all on full pallet lots. So you need to be a business dedicated to solar installs to get a fair price, and those businesses obviously don’t pass the savings on as that’s not the Canadian way.
Batteries are an even worse situation! If you live here and want storage, I hope you like lead-acid.
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I looked into getting solar installed. Best I could get in my area was $45k for a 10kW system or $97k for a 20kW with 2 power walls for storage. F that, even with government subsided rates.
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Lack of competition, but mostly greed.
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POV reading this headline while paying $0.4-$0.5 /kWh
Are you using solar?
It’s the same here (Denmark), and it’s not about whether we use solar, but if countries more suited for it do, which should decrease the price of electricity across countries. Just like when the Ukraine war caused gas to increase in price, electricity of all of Europe increased in price, disregarding their use or dependency on gas.
Damn. Ontario Canada is 15.1-24 cents per kWh.
Thanks, China.
Maybe raw battery cost has reduced but installed storage is 30% more expensive than it was a couple of years ago, and it was too expensive then…
The reason include the increased efficiency of solar panels, government incentive measures, the widespread adoption of electric vehicles, and advancements of battery technology, especially lithium-ion batteries. solar and energy storage are expected to continue becoming more affordable, contributing to efforts to address climate change.
