• sour@kbin.social
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    8
    ·
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    do you use an iphone

    you can make a similar argument for slavery

    you dont want the government…

    triangle shirtwaist fire ._.

    do the people who don’t like government regulations know how working conditions were before government regulations

    • unfreeradical@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      4
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      Advances were made and sustained principally through labor organization, not government regulations.

      Much of the manipulation in the presentation from PU is based on constructing a false dichotomy between organization through either private business versus central government.

      A common tactic is to bait an antagonist into attacking private business, but then shifting from a defense of business to a criticism of government. It is employed by proponents of marketism, and commonly involves insertion into the discussion, often as a straw man, the Democratic Party or the Soviet Union.

      Such proponents often respond poorly to suggestions about cooperative organization, or to reminders over the natural tendency of business to seek increasing protection from the state.

      • irmoz@reddthat.com
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        3
        ·
        1 year ago

        Advances were made and sustained principally through labor organization, not government regulations.

        It’s both. It happens because of regulation (otherwise there’d be nothing stopping businesses from exploiting you even harder than they already do) but as has been said many times, regulations are written in blood. They weren’t passed out of the goodness of anyone’s hearts, but as a capitulation to labour organising.

        • unfreeradical@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          edit-2
          1 year ago

          regulations are written in blood

          Well, they are ignored the moment labor loses the power to demand their enforcement.

          I try not to emphasize regulations. Genuine power never comes from words.

          • irmoz@reddthat.com
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            Of course not. But what are we organising for, if not our rights? In our society, those rights are upheld by law. We organise to make those laws happen. And , when it comes to it, to behead them and make our own laws.

            • unfreeradical@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              1 year ago

              Laws are made by the powerful few.

              Power for the masses comes from the groundul up.

              We organize to build our own power, toward our own interests, to challenge the systems that support the interests of elites.

              • irmoz@reddthat.com
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                1 year ago

                Laws are made by the powerful few.

                Yep, in our current neoliberal capitalist system. This is what we live in, which is why it’s what I’m describing.

                Power for the masses comes from the groundul up.

                I know, but we don’t have that yet. That’s the goal.

                We organize to build our own power, toward our own interests, to challenge the systems that support the interests of elites.

                Indeed. No need to repeat my own beliefs at me ;)

                • unfreeradical@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  1 year ago

                  It has always been the same under representative democracy. Elite bodies serve elite interests.

                  The postwar period took its form due to strong labor, and the Bretton Woods system, arising in the aftermath of the Depression and amidst the Second World War. The period was the exception, not the rule, for capitalism under liberal democracy.

                  Laws are at best one tool of many, not the final objective, for labor.

                  • irmoz@reddthat.com
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    ·
                    1 year ago

                    The period was the exception, not the rule, for capitalism under liberal democracy.

                    Laws are at best one tool of many, not the final objective, for labor.

                    I’m literally an anarcho-communist, you don’t need to tell me this. I have already said this. I’m only defending regulation because they’re our best tool for immediate results under liberal democracy, and I have already said before that it can only be achieved through violent demonstration, and I’ve also said that to achieve our real goals we need to get even more violent and get the guillotines out for full on revolution.

                    Stop preaching my own opinions at me like you’re trying to convert me lol. We’re on the same side.

    • Spzi@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      It’s a matter of perspective. It doesn’t look so bad when you’re not the one doing the working.