Hexbear users coming to defend China before even reading the post title:
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They’re coming in with their alts now. If you check some of the profiles on here, look how often China is mentioned and tell me it’s not just obviously Hexbear users with alts
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Looks like lab leak theory is back on the menu boys!
I feel like i’m taking crazy pills!
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No self-respecting scientist concluded that either a natural origin or a lab leak were the definitive cause of the pandemic. This is clear if you actually read scientific literature. It’s why phrases akin to “the most supported hypothesis is X” or “the Y theory is unlikely without more supporting evidence” are used. Both hypotheses were and are still possible explanations.
It’s people who get their scientific info from sources like the Telegraph that keep jumping to conclusions. Or people who don’t understand what a section leader at the NIH does, how research grants work, or what gain of function research is. You know, like yourself.
Yeah, it was just coincidence that the exact same strain evolved in the wild and transferred to humans in the same place at the same time!
The original grant was to the EcoHealth Alliance, which then subcontracted the Wuhan institute to collect wild samples from bats. In other words, the whole point of the research was to try and catalogue viruses that existed in the wild with pandemic potential.
It’s not coincidence that lab samples there or in other facilities exist that are close in sequence to viruses later identified in humans. That was, in fact, the goddamn point of surveying bat coronaviruses: to identify those with spillover potential. And it’s absolutely possible one of these collected samples was mishandled and leaked from the lab. After all, lab leaked viral outbreaks happen almost every other year, and there were already safety concerns at this particular site published long before the pandemic.
But what you and every other mouthbreathing idiot is trying to say is that Fauci, a director of the NIAID at the time, personally directed gain of function research to engineer new viruses to infect humans and then that virus escaped. Which, speaking as a molecular biologist myself, is laughably backwards.
If you were secure in your beliefs, you could use logic, science, or evidence.
You use insults. I question, you insult. Who is wrong?
Funny, you haven’t “questioned” anything. You’ve just regurgitated your same tired disproven talking points. Then you act like your viewpoint deserves respect. It doesn’t. No sources, no evidence, no respect.
If you’d like my sources, here you go. Let me know when you find the spot that says “I, Fauci, personally oversaw the development of a virus that looks absurdly natural in origin.”
The original grant proposal for EcoHealth Alliance: https://reporter.nih.gov/project-details/9819304
Every relevant follow up study produced under that grant proposal:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6171170/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7094983/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6178078/
I haven’t posted any evidence because I’ve only posted reservations about the narrative. You have chosen to attack me personally and you FINALLY posted several studies that do not say anything about containment, lab procedure, the contents of the lab, or anything else that might assuage my doubts. What they do prove is that gain of function research was being performed on SARS in the area where the pandemic first started. You accuse me of being irrational when you’re losing your god damned mind at the very idea that the lab could be the source of the pandemic.
Quite a fast reader, aren’t you?
Please cite the spot in those documents that “prove gain of function research was being performed on SARS in the area the pandemic first started”
sigh I know you’ve probably either already made up your mind or you’re not arguing in good faith, so I’m not gonna engage any further except to say that it’s entirely possible for a virologist to do research on zoonotic viruses. Just because it’s a bat virus doesn’t mean it stays a bat virus.
Also, there are probably billions if not trillions or quadrillions of individual COVID viruses out there. Each time a new one’s made, there’s a chance for it to mutate into something else. It’s totally possible for a virus to evolve similar features in separate environments. I believe the term, “convergent evolution” applies here, and you can find examples larger than viruses in plants and animals, where even separate species can sometimes evolve the same features independently from one another. Carcinisation is an extreme example of this.
Just so you know, not only them are reading your response. I appreciate your response.
And as someone that isn’t working in the field, I have to admit that it is very illogical that they would conduct gain-of-function research on coronaviruses in a country previously hit by a coronavirus outbreak while violating safety standards. Obviously that’s hindsight but shouldn’t this be very obviously a bad idea? It’s not like the existence of a virus like COVID-19/sarscov-2 was completely unexpected.
I mean, you’d do the research where you would be finding the wild zoonotic pathogens you want to study. So the location makes perfect sense.
The biosafety issues are more just a long-standing problem with how science is done in China in general, which is overall bad.
So you admit that China has lax protocols, and that the US and China were studying the same virus that became a problem later, but you offer me nothing but insults for wondering if that same virus leaked from that same poor quality lab.
I feel like I’m taking crazy pills.
Oh, I guess since it was “illogical” there is no way that could be the origin.
I meant what actually happened is illogical to me. So I’m simply a bit confused and understand that there might be some nuance that I’m missing.
And I think an accidental leak is absolutely possible, it’s only that a conscious effort by China and the USA is unrealistic.
Of course virologists study viruses, and sloppy government labs in backwater parts of authoritarian countries have lax safety protocols. You haven’t contradicted me one time. You’ve just thrown up strawmen and irrelevant arguments.
That doesn’t prove shit. You understand that nothing you say there is contributing to your argument, right?
You understand that I’m just casting doubt on the official narrative and the people arguing are the ones vested in their narrative, right?
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I question narratives and I’m met by insults. If the people responding had any evidence or were secure in their narrative they wouldn’t need to resort to insults first.
The gain of function research on the same wild virus being done in conjunction with Germany?
Do you know any of the actual details of the project, where they were collecting wild bats infected with the proto version of Covid and were splitting up different components of the research to different labs?
The Wuhan group were researching the viral backbone and Germany the viral antigens.
The same sort of collaboration done on many other potentially concerning natural vector diseases.
You’re so invested in your narrative.
You mean I’ve actually read the scientific data and evidence going back years before the pandemic? The research they were doing there and in Germany was well known and openly available. Published papers and all.
You haven’t read anything that proves COVID-19 wasn’t a lab leak, and everything you’ve read filtered through the people responsible. But you are invested in convincing me it wasn’t.
How do you think scientific publications work?
They don’t go through the high council of evil science-lords first.
Now I want to be invited to an evil science-lord convention.
Bonus points if it is held in an underground volcanic lair.
Have you seen any scientific publications posted to these comments that prove the pandimic didn’t result from a lab leak? I haven’t.
What possible evidence would there be to “prove” this negative? Maybe if we happened to find the exact source animal to test? Since that is unlikely, all we have to go is the genome of the virus compared to similar viruses in the wild and similar viruses in published research. And that wouldn’t be proof enough for you.
There are a ton now, which you already replied to. If only you’d post your own now.
The very scientist who first suggested that Covid was man-made changed his mind after doing further research and discovering that the components he thought were man-made were actually found in other wild Sars viruses.
You’re the one who refuses to listen to actual evidence beyond the initial claims you first heard.
The only evidence you’ve presented is the statement that Germany was involved.
If so, you’re two of a kind.
I’ve yet to be given one solid reason to question my questioning of the official narrative. The other guy only posted character attacks and appeals to questionable authorities.
Do you just… like… look in a mirror, then post random comments attacking people for your own failings or something? Cause that’s what seems to be happening.
Where did you see me attack anybody? You should be able to quote me. What seems to be happening from my perspective is a bunch of people with poor reading comprehension or no integrity attacking me for doubting the official narrative.
Have they found an animal with a strain related to the human variant? Isn’t that the main evidence they expect to be able to find to help prove it actually had a path from animal to human?
If so, I haven’t seen it. As far as I can tell, investigating the narrative is off limits. You can see how every person who has responded to my questioning has attacked me on a personal level.
I don’t know if those attacking you are right or wrong in the narrative they believe, but they’re definitely jumping to conclusions about people who choose to believe in the possibility of a lab leak and subsequent coverup. It seems they think all of us to be conspiracy theory nutjobs with alt-right ideologies.
Personally, I started believing the lab leak stuff may be legit when I watch johnny harris’s video. I figured Johnny Harris was giving a decent take on the whole situation. He had numerous reasons for coming to the conclusions he did, and it all seems decently reasonable.
But recently it’s come to my attention that maybe Harris isn’t the most reliable source. While I can’t recall the details atm, I have read and watched stuff about Harris that does call into question his biases. At the same time, I don’t believe anyone has said anything against his factual accuracy. But the slant of a presentation and possibly excluded information can do quite a bit for undermining a narrative if you really want to do that. So, its hard to say if you should believe his story about the lab leak.
But, It’s not like I’m gonna do anything useful with my opinion on the topic…. So I’m not going to waste time seriously investing in researching the topic.
Edit: Reworded, and added context that I completely left out the first time around.
So wild that people are reacting so violently to mere questioning. Makes me wonder if these comments are being astroturfed by vested parties.
I have no idea what you’re talking about.
Source on that claim?
Ah yes, because it’s not like there are any geopolitical reasons that might explain why the NIH would want to decouple from China.
Fact is, you can find infractions from any lab. It’s just a question of whether you want to look.
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The US funds research on a variety of subjects around the world, many of them only being possible to be researched locally because they are on local diseases and pathogens.
Less regulations, it’s easier to do “funny stuff” like gain of function research (frankly a euphemism for biological warfare research) in China than in the US. And it’s not like the US is just funding the biolab, they have people on site and oversight as well.
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Did this thread get nuked? Says there should be 57 comments.
